Kicked out of Church?

[TheDag]

Jennifer just be aware that if you do start legal action then sure things will come into the light as to why the church took those actions. be aware though that you may be painted in a very unfavourable light. That is the details that seem to be missing from your story will come out as well. So if your not comfortable sharing those you need to think will you be comfortable when they are mentioned in court.

 

[Johnnz]

Hedrick,

What you are getting here is a substantial representation of American fundamentalism, a large, very public group, but my no means fully representative of the many other Christian communities within America.

John
NZ

 

[rockytopva]

In my devotions on The Saint of the Wilderness I find...

The Saint of the Wilderness by Jess Carr - Pages 211-212

Not entirely in the back of his mind was Ben White’ suggestion that he affiliate with the Holston Conference on Methodism. There would be advantages to having an assigned charge if they now felt him qualified. But there were disadvantages also. He could not reach the people who most needed reaching if he were confined to one small geographical district.

There was another factor that had long been present in his mind and was in fact the final element in his decision not to ally himself with the church conference. It was the issue of church politics and organized religion. He questioned God’s approval of churches’ conducting themselves like county courthouses, with church politicians gathering once a year to divide up the territory and the spoils, and to determine what policies would officially be sanctioned in the heart of every conference member for the next twelve months. He could not justify this feeling of voluntary alienation entirely, for he had been a part of the conference for the last three years with Ben White, and the results had been good. He also held many of the conference members whom he knew in highest regard, and they had told him of mission work and of the efficiency of organized effort through which much more was accomplished than could be done by a solitary, unaffiliate. But every argument with which he assailed or supported his position could not supersede the final one: Jesus Christ had for a short while been an Independent man on earth, wandering about the countryside, giving voice and comfort to people wherever He found them. Where Jesus had been the voice of His Father, now Robert in like manner would be the unencumbered voice of Jesus, moving in the same atmosphere of freedom among all of the people, wherever he found them. A Methodist, yes, but an independent one.

We need this kind of wisdom to operate in the church...

I was at youth camp one time and made the reference to "The devil in church people." Well, I had one guy blow up on me on that quote and actually tried to get me removed as counselor at youth camp.

It was years later, that he actually looked me up at camp meeting. He said that he wanted to apologize for what he had said and done. I graciously accepted his apology and treated him like a friend and brother.

But... Inside... I was wondering what horrible circumstances had brought him to that conclusion... Yes... The devil can operate through church people!

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. - Revelation 2:12

Oh! Beware of this satanic light that causes so much trouble! I have had my challenges here too... Which normally operate under the unction of church politics. During this time I place all the cards before Jesus... And make prayer my top priority!

 

[gideon123]

No offence ... but you've given a very biased account of the events. What did you DO and SAY that caused you to be ostracized? Even if this church was not normal, the actions you are describing usually follow extreme behavior by a member of the congregation. Likewise, I've never known the pastor of any congregation who would refuse to discuss a problem with a church member who came with an honest and humble heart. So i will assume that your attitude did not reflect those qualities.

If you honestly had a major difference of opinion with that congregation -then why did you stay in the first place? Why not just move to another church that would work better for you? Perhaps I'm missing something, but it sounds strongly like you created real feelings of discord and confrontation at this church.

Before you point fingers ... perhaps you should examine your own actions with a more humble and repentant heart??

Gideon123

 

[jennifer112060]

Something does not really jive here. Never have I heard such as huge complaint without addressing any real questions we have asked.

Jenn, no offense, but I feel you are skirting or leaving out details in this whole matter. If you have moved on, then why bring up this whole thread? Don't get me wrong, we are here to help, but it seems like you want to return to this church, but something is seriously wrong here and we are not getting all the facts. I am surprised this was not on the national (or even local) news for that matter. Any church like that would surely have the spot light shown on it to its embarrassment. Please provide more details, I am doubtful a snack bar conversation would cause this uproar.

The only other inference I could think of, is that the woman you speak of is some kind of sociopath - like borderline personality disorder, schizophrenia, or some other kind of disorder that would have her push something like this. She may also be tied with one (or more of the pastors) and have some influence over them. Of course we are all speculating. Can you please provide more details?

Mentioning the denomination would be a start, plus what the prayer request that was ask of. There are obviously to many important facts left out and I am sure they are embarrassing for you, but remember this is the net, you have pseudo-anonymity.

I have stated in original letter that I am bringing this up because the surrounding churches have functions at this main church that has kicked me out. I explained in detail what started happening with this woman leader that was following me and writing down her notes, having me kicked out of choir, the church, telling me I cannot talk to the woman in the church,.....I do not know what happened and that I attempted making an appointment with her to find out what I did, but she refused. There is such a thing as gossip and bullying and you do not have to do anything for this to happen. Members saw what was happening but did not want to get involved, since they go to the church.

 

[hedrick]

I have stated in original letter that I am bringing this up because the surrounding churches have functions at this main church that has kicked me out. I explained in detail what started happening with this woman leader that was following me and writing down her notes, having me kicked out of choir, the church, telling me I cannot talk to the woman in the church,.....I do not know what happened and that I attempted making an appointment with her to find out what I did, but she refused. There is such a thing as gossip and bullying and you do not have to do anything for this to happen. Members saw what was happening but did not want to get involved, since they go to the church.

I guess my response would be to talk about this issue with the other churches. I don't believe our church would do events in a building whose owner excluded someone who wanted to participate in our events. My initial reaction is that while it sounds like there are things going on that aren't legal, it doesn't make sense for a Christian to take a legal route. I can't imagine why I'd want to be involved in any church that would do such things, or in churches that follow their lead.

It appears that you're a Wesleyan. Are there any United Methodist churches in your area? I'd be shocked if they would be involved in this kind of thing. They also have procedures for doing church discipline that would have prevented it in the first place. In any responsible church you can't exclude someone without having something like a trial, where evidence is presented.

It's becoming clear that I'm a naive liberal, who had no idea just who kinds of things are going on in conservative churches. But not every church is that way, even if it seems like it.

 

[jennifer112060]

***I did not have extreme behavior and I did go to the Sr. Pastor about this and before I could talk, he stated that he does not want to hear it if it has anything to do with his employees. I believe it is his responsibility to address any problems in the church. I humbly went before the Pastor stating that we have a problem that needs to be addressed.

I also only know what behaviors I was given and do not know why they were given because the woman leader would not tell me when I asked her. I did not swear or cause any disruption. Just left quietly when they escorted me out. This behavior was going on for about 2 years and I finally asked her when there was no services and classes were done,---I was frustrated and asked her why she was doing this to me. Her reply was, "We are not going to talk to you on this". She however did call me once to tell me that I am not allowed to talk to, email, the women in the Church.

Therefore when I left I lost all my friends I made because I did not have their phone numbers or emails because the WOMANS LEADER told me that I cannot be in touch with them and I am to submit to her authority. When I told the girls that I did not send a recipe that they requested to them, I told them that the Womens Leader told me to not talk or fraternize with the women in the Church. Then when women question it to Womens Leader, she gets mad at me for giving them the truth.
Gideon, I have examined my heart over and over and I have no problem saying I" m sorry---but do not know what I did. Their behavior continues with finger-pointing and gossip and shunning whenever they see me at events at my church. I want to put an end to it, but do not know what to do when it is their behavior that keeps it alive. I could only apologize for the fact that this even happened. I believe the Sr. Pastor needs to address this problem and perhaps my Pastor can intercede and talk about forgiveness.***jennifer112060

 

[jennifer112060]

Gideon, What did I do and say, you ask? One time I was escorted out because I asked the Women's Leader at her table when the class was that I signed up for. She sarcastically stated, You don't need to know because you aren't going. When I asked "Why?" she got up and walked up to the security guard and had me removed from the church immediately. I asked security what I did and she told him I was harassing her. I quietly left. This is just one of the many examples. When I have interacted with other pastors in the church, there are about 20+ in this church, she questioned what I said and documented it in her notebook. At the end she twisted anything I said and did to the Executive Pastor who wrote the letter dismissing me from Church or I would get arrested. In the letter they did mention that I have many problems and they cannot help me any longer. Most of my problems deal with family in which I have asked for prayer only and then the prayer partners notify the pastors of what my prayer requests are. I was told that these are confidential before I spoke, but they were reported to the pastors. I did not know that someone could get kicked out for their problems. They compounded my problems when they talked, shunned and eventually kicked me out of Church, which I was being connected to and making them my church family to fill the void in my life. I feel very abandoned and bullied by all of this. I cannot go legal since I do not have the money for an attorney and this happened years ago. I am bringing it up because my current church uses the building for functions that I cannot attend and they are very close to the pastor and his wife.

 

[CounselorForChrist]

Doens't the bible say though not to sue your brother? Even so there must be some sort of line when you have no choice but to sue.

 

[LilLamb219]

I'm having a hard time believing that you seriously do not have any clue as to why you were being pretty much excommunicated. It sounds to me as if they were telling you but you are in some sort of denial.

If you still aren't certain, go back to that second church where the pastor received a letter about you and tell him you are clueless as to why he won't allow you in the church. He'll tell you. All you have to do is listen.

 

[steve_bakr]

It is hard to give advise without a more complete understanding of what may have prompted the church leaders to act in this extreme way--ie., is this a doctrinal issue, a legal issue, or a behavioral issue? If you could reveal more information, you might get better advice. Might I suggest that you attend a church whose denomination is not connected to your former church and that is more compatible with your worship style, beliefs, etc. Also, you may want to bring your personal issues and problems to a Christian counselor, where you would be protected by the laws of the client-patient relationship.

 

[jennifer112060]

What I DID was try to bring these situations to the Sr. Pastor who did not want to hear it. Sometimes people just decide they do not like you for one reason or another and use their position to get you dismissed. If I knew what I did,---I would welcome it, because I would have some understanding and it could be corrected. That is not the case. The only thing they said in the letter is that I have alot of problems and they cannot help me and that I do not get along with the Women's Leader. They also added that she asked me to leave the womans Bible Class and I left but went to go pick up my movie I loaned to the Choir Directer before leaving.
This woman leader also refused to give me back my crock pot that I made soup in for their pot luck. She held it for over 1 month and then finally released it back to me

 

[jennifer112060]

Stev baker---This church is connected to many of the large churches and some of the smaller ones also. It is hard to get away from it entirely.

 

[LilLamb219]

What I DID was try to bring these situations to the Sr. Pastor who did not want to hear it. Sometimes people just decide they do not like you for one reason or another and use their position to get you dismissed. If I knew what I did,---I would welcome it, because I would have some understanding and it could be corrected. That is not the case. The only thing they said in the letter is that I have alot of problems and they cannot help me and that I do not get along with the Women's Leader. They also added that she asked me to leave the womans Bible Class and I left but went to go pick up my movie I loaned to the Choir Directer before leaving.
This woman leader also refused to give me back my crock pot that I made soup in for their pot luck. She held it for over 1 month and then finally released it back to me

If THAT was all that was in the letter, no pastor would have forbidden you from attending the church.

There's more to this story than you're either telling us or refuse to believe concerning it.

So what "problems" are they accusing you of having? Surely you know those answers.

 

[BFine]

Doens't the bible say though not to sue your brother? Even so there must be some sort of line when you have no choice but to sue.

*If the OP is being honest and she's been unjustly treated by the church
she has a right to defend herself, if the church refuses to disclose why they are continuing to slander her name...
Remember she has tried going to another church and the church that kicked her to the curb is still applying pressure
on the church she attended (currently) the minister there told her not to come back.

This wouldn't be a trivial matter...her fellow brothers/sisters in Christ
are attacking her and telling another church not to accept her as a member.
Why wouldn't they want to resolve the issues? extend love and work toward reconciliation?
The OP stated she has tried to talk about this matter but she's been removed from that churches property by security.

If all she is saying is true...then this becomes a legal matter.
Slander and or libel are serious matters, if the OP has proof/witnesses etc. she has a right to defend herself against the charges/accusations or whatever her former church is using to
discredit her.

 

[technofox]

If THAT was all that was in the letter, no pastor would have forbidden you from attending the church.

There's more to this story than you're either telling us or refuse to believe concerning it.

So what "problems" are they accusing you of having? Surely you know those answers.

I am glad your the one asking the tough questions now.

Jenn, please answer questions, honestly, you should at least be able to mention what they accuse you of. If not, then let them go and forget they even exist.

I know a guy who kinda went through something similar with his crazy ex-wife who lied and manipulated the church that they had gone to into thinking he was cheating on her, when the reality was the opposite. He showed my pastor the letter from the pastor of the previous church; my pastor tore it up and chucked the paper where it really belonged (the trash), and told the guy that he doesn't need this in his life and the letter is just plain non-sense.

Needless to say my church is growing, because it chooses to love sinners and not judge, even if some refuses to turn from certain sins. The only time someone would ever be kicked out is if they are a threat to anyone in the church (e.g. violence). They also have police offers who attend that keep an eye on certain individuals, whom are known offenders (ie - make sure those individuals stay clean). I have never heard of anyone being kicked out of church, especially mine; however, I am sure there would be certain instances where someone would get kicked out, but it would have to be extremely threatening or disruptive behavior.

 

[rockytopva]

RW Schambach - David and Goliath - YouTube

 

[Trogool]

If THAT was all that was in the letter, no pastor would have forbidden you from attending the church.

There's more to this story than you're either telling us or refuse to believe concerning it.

So what "problems" are they accusing you of having? Surely you know those answers.

Calling an OP in the advice forum a liar like this is awfully rude. She has already said, several times, that she does not know what she did to get kicked out, and when she asked, they refused to communicate with her beyond telling her to get out and leave them alone.

And obviously, a pastor did forbid her from attending the church.

 

[LilLamb219]

Calling an OP in the advice forum a liar like this is awfully rude. She has already said, several times, that she does not know what she did to get kicked out, and when she asked, they refused to communicate with her beyond telling her to get out and leave them alone.

And obviously, a pastor did forbid her from attending the church.

Some people really THINK they're totally innocent and ignore things people have told them concerning their behaviors or doctrines, etc.... I feel that the OP falls into that category. I did not call her a liar but I don't believe that she is totally unaware of what has happened. Perhaps she really doesn't want to admit it to herself? and especially not to us.

The pastor DID forbid her from attending church...if the one you're referring to is the pastor from that second church, I did give advice to ask that pastor concerning the letter. A pastor will not just say NO to a new congregant without being properly informed. There is so much more to this story than what is being told.

Judge Judy says on TV every single day that if it doesn't make sense then something isn't right about the story. That totally applies in this situation.

 

[Trogool]

Some people really THINK they're totally innocent and ignore things people have told them concerning their behaviors or doctrines, etc.... I feel that the OP falls into that category. I did not call her a liar but I don't believe that she is totally unaware of what has happened.

And so you did call her a liar. She says she is totally unaware of what she did. You are telling her she isn't, and to tell you what really happened. When you do something like that, the inevitable implication is that the OP is being deceptive.

Perhaps she really doesn't want to admit it to herself? and especially not to us.

Or you are too incredulous that the OP could be honestly describing the situation.

The pastor DID forbid her from attending church...if the one you're referring to is the pastor from that second church, I did give advice to ask that pastor concerning the letter. A pastor will not just say NO to a new congregant without being properly informed. There is so much more to this story than what is being told.

Why would you assume that? You are basing all of this out of your own personal incredulity, which isn't logical.

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Judge Judy says on TV every single day that if it doesn't make sense then something isn't right about the story. That totally applies in this situation.

...You're joking, right?