KENNETH HAGIN & DEREK PRINCE on deliverence

[Faulty]

‪Demon Manifesting!‬‏ - YouTube

I have watched this guy for a while now.

I believe he is very genuine.

Interesting. I've seen this type of thing before. Don't think I'd heard of this guy before though.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

And, demons are the ones that caused the spiritual and emotional problems in the first place, so we're back to square one...

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

The definition of resisting the devil...is submitting oneself to God...and therein lies the problem.

Too many Christians want to be free from the devil, be healthy, have good relationships, prosperity, etc, etc...but they don't want to fully submit their lives to 100% to God.

They have the cart before the horse!

The good stuff comes after you start walking with God where He wants you to be..and then you'll experience some good stuff, but don't forget to spread the good stuff around to others!

While I agree in principle with most of your post, I would say that many well-qualified Christian counsellors, psychologists and mental health professionals would sharply disagree with you when you say that demons cause the spiritual and emotional problems in the first place.

Most highly qualified and experienced ministries in spiritual warfare would disagree with you as well.

It could be that the most qualified person in the universe, the Holy Spirit, might disagree with you as well...

 

[gratefulgrace]

agree with "Many demonized believers brought the demons in with them when they got converted." Things like inner healing and unforgiveness usually have to be taken care of after salvation and then maintained. There is heart work (so our feelings line up with The Word) and the renewing of our minds that still needs to take place. So there will be time differences because as Oscarr said there's stuff there then the deliverance can take place. This is the main reason I oppose the no repentance after salvation is necessary. The Holy Spirit will bring up things that we need to renounce or work through including repentance - and we've got to have His help to do it.

That is why a lot of "altar call" deliverances don't last ----I think they don't last because usually there's no followup, no training, on how to stay delivered. Some have lost ground before they even get back home.

why there is so much sound and fury at altar calls when attempts are made to cast demons out, is that the "sons of Sceva" That may account for some of the noise but this verse also could explain some of it Luk 9:39 “And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out; and it teareth him that he foameth again, and bruising him hardly departeth from him.” ---Sometimes the individual isn't aware of it. Then some wonder if the manifestation was from Yahweh or the person.

I think it's like asking how long someone's been saved - what matters is that they are and growing. The length of time for deliverance varies; however, I think it's a lot more important that the deliverance is happening.

Often there is backlash and retaliation afterwards, that's the reason there needs to be believers praying while deliverance is taking place and prayers to cover the deliverance team as well as those who have just gone through deliverance. Deliverance is definitely one area where the guidance from the Holy Spirit is needed for each step.

Would sure like scriptural backing for this opinion. I do not believe all problems believers have after salvation is due to demonization. And I do not believe a truly born again believer can be demon possessed. For what fellowship has light with darkness.

Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

 

[Alive_Again]

Hagin had a special anointing where fire would leap between his hands when an illness was caused by a demonic spirit. You can talk to people and their words will often indicate assignments, but often assignments have root causes that if undealt with, will allow the same secondary fruits to resurface.

The most fruitful deliverance ministry is with the manifestation of the gift of discernment of spirits. As the Lord told Hagin, sometimes you need to know the name or number of spirits (for the rulers of darkness of this world). Jesus had to know to cast the legion out. That's a good read from the "I Believe in Visions" book. A MUST read for anyone aspiring to minister at all.

Derek Prince was shown that even though you take out a spirit (based on what the deliveree or the Lord tells him) and it looks like they didn't leave, but they really did. Another one jumps up and it seems like the former. He saw a couple of angels grab a devil and put him in chains and another would manifest. People often collect many spirits. If you let them come back, you get 7 times more.

Sometimes it comes in parts. The Lord will give you what you're willing to walk.

If you really want insight into the spirit realm, get a hold of Howard Pittman's teachings on the "tour" the Lord allowed him to have. He attended high level meetings in the second heaven (they were unaware). He talks about their appearances and how they keep records of your weaknesses, as well as your forefather's weaknesses.

I could tell you many stories myself, but their too much for the Forum. The Forum doesn't even allow instructions for deliverance. We're all in the war, and everyone you know has to deal with it.

Back to Hagin, he ministers to large crowds (as he is no longer a pastor). He doesn't have time to do the one on one. The anointing is so strong on him, a couple of people often end up carrying him around by the arms because his body can't hold up that kind of power!

That's the same power that "slays".

 

[gratefulgrace]

Hagin had a special anointing where fire would leap between his hands when an illness was caused by a demonic spirit. You can talk to people and their words will often indicate assignments, but often assignments have root causes that if undealt with, will allow the same secondary fruits to resurface.

The most fruitful deliverance ministry is with the manifestation of the gift of discernment of spirits. As the Lord told Hagin, sometimes you need to know the name or number of spirits (for the rulers of darkness of this world). Jesus had to know to cast the legion out. That's a good read from the "I Believe in Visions" book. A MUST read for anyone aspiring to minister at all.

Derek Prince was shown that even though you take out a spirit (based on what the deliveree or the Lord tells him) and it looks like they didn't leave, but they really did. Another one jumps up and it seems like the former. He saw a couple of angels grab a devil and put him in chains and another would manifest. People often collect many spirits. If you let them come back, you get 7 times more.

Sometimes it comes in parts. The Lord will give you what you're willing to walk.

If you really want insight into the spirit realm, get a hold of Howard Pittman's teachings on the "tour" the Lord allowed him to have. He attended high level meetings in the second heaven (they were unaware). He talks about their appearances and how they keep records of your weaknesses, as well as your forefather's weaknesses.

I could tell you many stories myself, but their too much for the Forum. The Forum doesn't even allow instructions for deliverance. We're all in the war, and everyone you know has to deal with it.

Back to Hagin, he ministers to large crowds (as he is no longer a pastor). He doesn't have time to do the one on one. The anointing is so strong on him, a couple of people often end up carrying him around by the arms because his body can't hold up that kind of power!

That's the same power that "slays".

This is all very interesting but I prefer to get my guidance from scripture and personal experience with God and not second hand testimonies. GG

 

[tturt]

Alive again, good post and thanks for the recommendations.

Yahweh is everywhere so no matter where the enemy is, Yahweh is. I agree, I don't think that believers can be possessed either but we can be oppressed and influenced by them. [FONT=&quot]

[/FONT] A couple of Biblical examples of demonical influence from both the OT and NT: I John 2:16 summarizes what sin is. As one of Yahweh’s first children, Eve did all 3 in Gen 3 “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,…. She rationalized about the tree and its fruit but her thoughts contrasted with what Yahweh had said, “…Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it…” 2 Corinthians 11:3 says that the serpent planted thoughts in Eve’s mind. From the New Testament, while with Yeshua, Peter went from stating revelation about who He was to speaking against what The Son of the Living God was saying (Matt 16:13-23). Yeshua knew the source shown in v 23 “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me…” Unfortunately, sometimes we say and do the opposite ourselves.

“The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10). Eph 6:12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Don't recommend doing deliverance unless directed each step of the way by The Holy Spirit.

Yeshua heals a woman attending worship with the spirit of infirmity (Luke 13:10-12). Not saying that all illnesses are the result of demons either.

Mark 16:15-17 includes “In my name shall they cast out devils…” Referenced in Alive Again's post - seven times more wicker spirits when houses aren’t swept clean (Luke 11:24-26). Unbelievers aren't going to be able to sweep their houses clean.

Eph 4:26 “Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil.”

Also, Luke 4:18 states that Yeshua heals the brokenhearted. Inner healing isn’t casting out demons; however, sometimes those hurts have become bitterness, anger, hatred, unforgivness, rejection, etc. So the healings come first.

Thankfully Yahweh wants us all to come to Him. Many know Him as Savior. Some also know Him as Deliverer, Healer, Warrior (the Lord of the Armies), Provider, Protector, etc.





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[gratefulgrace]

Alive again, good post and thanks for the recommendations.

Yahweh is everywhere so no matter where the enemy is, Yahweh is. I agree, I don't think that believers can be possessed either but we can be oppressed and influenced by them. [FONT=&quot]

[/FONT] A couple of Biblical examples of demonical influence from both the OT and NT: I John 2:16 summarizes what sin is. As one of Yahweh’s first children, Eve did all 3 in Gen 3 “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,…. She rationalized about the tree and its fruit but her thoughts contrasted with what Yahweh had said, “…Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it…” 2 Corinthians 11:3 says that the serpent planted thoughts in Eve’s mind. From the New Testament, while with Yeshua, Peter went from stating revelation about who He was to speaking against what The Son of the Living God was saying (Matt 16:13-23). Yeshua knew the source shown in v 23 “But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me…” Unfortunately, sometimes we say and do the opposite ourselves.

“The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10). Eph 6:12 “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Don't recommend doing deliverance unless directed each step of the way by The Holy Spirit.

Yeshua heals a woman attending worship with the spirit of infirmity (Luke 13:10-12). Not saying that all illnesses are the result of demons either.

Mark 16:15-17 includes “In my name shall they cast out devils…” Referenced in Alive Again's post - seven times more wicker spirits when houses aren’t swept clean (Luke 11:24-26). Unbelievers aren't going to be able to sweep their houses clean.

Eph 4:26 “Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil.”

Also, Luke 4:18 states that Yeshua heals the brokenhearted. Inner healing isn’t casting out demons; however, sometimes those hurts have become bitterness, anger, hatred, unforgivness, rejection, etc. So the healings come first.

Thankfully Yahweh wants us all to come to Him. Many know Him as Savior. Some know Him as Deliverer, Healer, Warrior (the Lord of the Armies), Provider, Protector, etc.





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Good references but remember these are 'pre redemption' testimonies I think that makes a difference IMHO. Our house has been swept clean by the Lord's atonement otherwise we could not have fellowship with the Father. As a believer I also believe that we can be attacked and oppressed by the enemy which will require prayer always and need further ministry at other times. For the most part I believe that christians get into spiritual difficulty through there own will and ignorance. If there is no will to follow the Father or carelessness in nurturing this relationship, only acting on what self desires, a mess develops. Our will to turn and get right with God will always free us. Thankfully the Holy Spirit has not left us comfortless and we can turn to him at any time for help. In fact I believe He will always work at wooing us back. The devil will resist this saying
'you messed up to bad so there is no going back to God', or, 'He is dead powerless, evil, or .......'. He places this lie as a wedge between us and our Heavenly Father. Knowing the truth of God's word and acting on it will always set us free. GG

 

[tturt]

I've heard the pre-redemption stands before - that's fine - but not everyone looks at it that way particularly those who wanted the help previously and have gained more freedom and liberty in Yahweh because of it. So as long as they ask for prayer, deliverance will continue to be done as well as being mindful of our own spiritual state.

 

[SharonL]

I've had a couple occasions of dealing with demons - really strange, I always thought I would be very scared - but I had no fear at all. I had a friend who had 3 familiar spirits which she invited in - there was nothing I could do about it - I talked with her but she said she would never get rid of them because they were her friends. She became ill and all her friends took turns spending the nights with her - you could feel the demons in her house, but I just claimed my space and slept well, but toward the end before she died they started manifesting and the Holy Spirit clearly told me to dust off my shoes and move on.

The other time was in church - the pastor walked by this woman and very calmly said 'come out of her' she did not raise her voice - she ask the congregation to raise our hands toward her and pray - she spoke again 'come out of her' - the woman dropped to the floor and slithered across the floor and the sound that came out of her would send cold chills up your spine. Finally she relaxed and sat back up on her chair and smiled at us all - she had no knowledge of what just happened and I though boy if you could have seen what happened you would be really shocked.

 

[Alive_Again]

In response to my post about deliverance and insights provided by Jesus through Kenneth Hagin and Derek Prince:

This is all very interesting but I prefer to get my guidance from scripture and personal experience with God and not second hand testimonies. GG

I want to exhort you to remember that God gave us the five fold ministry so that we could mature and not be swayed by every wind of doctrine. Since those ministries tend to deal with more people, the Lord often provides them experiences and teaches them in order to share them with the flock. To disregard them outright in favor of scripture alone, is to place His gifts in low regard, or as the King James states, you "despise" His provision.

We still weigh everything in the Spirit, and compare with scripture, but we should keep a watchful eye for other revelation, whether 2nd or 3rd hand, because your ability to overcome depends on walking in the light available to you.

If I had to count how many times the Lord changed my perspective on a scripture passage, it makes me want to shut up entirely. Still, the Lord wants us to freely share in the sight of God. We all get a piece of the puzzle and that's the way the Lord set it up.

I pray that we all can lay down our prejudices and personal objections and receive freely from God not only through famous ministries, but through each other, as appropriate.

 

[Gospel Trafficker]

Just hope that those who do deliverance, teach how to maintain it.

Matt 12:43When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

To me, as a deliverance minister this is a wise statement. In the deliverance sessions that I perform, afterwords, we disciple. This is done using the Acts 19 format.

Acts 19
13 But also some of the Jewish exorcists, who went from place to place, attempted to name over those who had the evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, “I adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preaches.” 14 Seven sons of one Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this. 15 And the evil spirit answered and said to them, “I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?” 16 And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17 This became known to all, both Jews and Greeks, who lived in Ephesus; and fear fell upon them all and the name of the Lord Jesus was being magnified. 18 Many also of those who had believed kept coming, confessing and disclosing their practices. 19 And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone; and they counted up the price of them and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord was growing mightily and prevailing. (NASB emphasis my own)

God has revealed to us a biblically sound method using the book of Acts, chapter 19, verses 13-20 as a model.



· Accept/Act /Authority
· Believe
· Confess
· Disclose
· Eliminate/Expel

ACCEPT/ACT/ AUTHORITY: In verses 13-16, the Jewish exorcists, and even the demon ACCEPTED Jesus’ AUTHORITY and ACTED on this knowledge. The Jewish exorcists demonstrated this when they stated (Acted on) “I adjure you by Jesus”. They ACCEPTED the AUTHORITY of Jesus by using His Holy name to cast out the demonic. The demon recognized and ACCEPTED Jesus’ AUTHORITY in its statement “I recognize Jesus”. Notice that this was without Jesus being there. You must ACCEPT the AUTHORITY of Jesus over the enemy and ACT on this AUTHORITY given to you by Jesus Christ himself. Luke 10:19 states "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.” The “You” in that verse is literal. It means YOU! Actions speak louder than words!


BELIEVE: In verse 14, the demon stated “I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?” It did not recognize the Jewish exorcists because they are already dead. They were living out of the flesh, out of religion, out of the law that can only lead to death. It is when we BELIEVE in Jesus that “It is no longer I that live, but Jesus who lives in me!” Only when we BELIEVE will the enemy then no longer see “us”, but Jesus, whom they must obey, and who will send them to the lake of fire! Also notice in verse 18, “those who BELIEVED kept coming!” It is our belief that pulls us away from demonic strongholds and keeps us coming back to Jesus. We must have a firm BELIEF that Jesus is the final AUTHORITY! HE MUST BE OUR SAVIOR!


CONFESS: Verse 18 also states that they CONFESSED that they were wrong. They CONFESSED that they sinned against what God had commanded them not to do. We are to confess to God that we have sinned against him to expose the enemy, so that he could be openly dealt with by God. It is here that when we ask for forgiveness, our sin is thrown as far as the east is from the west! The stronghold begins to crack.


Disclose: Next, we are to DISCLOSE what that sin was to God. In verse 19, they disclosed that the particular sin that they had taken into their lives was “practicing magic”, or better known today as “witchcraft” and “high magic”. The particular sin is a tool/tactic of the enemy to draw you further and further away from God. When we DISCLOSE our particular sin, we expose the tool/tactic of the enemy, allowing us a chance to recognize the methods that the enemy uses to rob us of the opportunity to produce fruit.


Eliminate/Expel: Verse 19 then states that “And many of those who practiced magic brought their books together and began burning them in the sight of everyone;” We must then eliminate the tool, tactic, and source of the stronghold in our life if we are to completely break free of its bondage. The enemy no longer has a legal right to you. An important factor in this step is accountability. In this verse they burned their magic books, ELIMINATING the tool and tactic of the enemy. But they did it PUBLICLY! They held themselves accountable to one another so that they will not fall back, and if they do, they can encourage one another to get back on point. Align yourself with someone whom you can be accountable with and to encourage you along the way!

Next, seeing that you have taken away the enemy’s legal right to oppress you any further, you might feel led by the spirit to EXPEL (Exorcise) the demonic who may still be lingering from your life.

We can see that deliverance is a PROCESS sometimes immediate, and others are not so immediate.

The last step is to disciple the person delivered to help in strengthening their new found faith in Christ!

Just something I thought might be useful in this discussion.

 

[gratefulgrace]

In response to my post about deliverance and insights provided by Jesus through Kenneth Hagin and Derek Prince:



I want to exhort you to remember that God gave us the five fold ministry so that we could mature and not be swayed by every wind of doctrine. Since those ministries tend to deal with more people, the Lord often provides them experiences and teaches them in order to share them with the flock. To disregard them outright in favor of scripture alone, is to place His gifts in low regard, or as the King James states, you "despise" His provision.

We still weigh everything in the Spirit, and compare with scripture, but we should keep a watchful eye for other revelation, whether 2nd or 3rd hand, because your ability to overcome depends on walking in the light available to you.

If I had to count how many times the Lord changed my perspective on a scripture passage, it makes me want to shut up entirely. Still, the Lord wants us to freely share in the sight of God. We all get a piece of the puzzle and that's the way the Lord set it up.

I pray that we all can lay down our prejudices and personal objections and receive freely from God not only through famous ministries, but through each other, as appropriate.

I have never disparaged open Bible teaching God has given us teachers for our edification. The Holy spirit helps us to discern truth from error in this. Teaching what scripture is trying to tell us is one thing, testimonies not backed up by scripture directly are quite another thing. It has gotten to a ridiculous level of late IMHO and can only lead to eventual error. gg

 

[TasManOfGod]

It is the Jesus in us that the devil flees from -not the Jesus that we think is in us!