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KENNETH HAGIN & DEREK PRINCE on deliverence

mrhappy3

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Hagin wasn't a fan of spending more than a few minutes casting a demon out - he simply spoke the word and believed it done.

Prince however, knew it could sometimes take time and put no time frame on it

anyone got any thoughts - or are both right ?

the reason I ask is that a friend has a son who definitely has some issues and methinks a "specialist" may be needed to deal with him.

Looking on you tube, aa allen and prophet joshua knew/know how to sort the "hard cases" out.

thanks
 

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If we are prepared with fasting and prayer and living a consecrated life , then we can deal with those things much more quickly. Usually when it is a struggle that goes on and on it is because those praying are not fully prepared.

agreed!
 
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gratefulgrace

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I definitely believe that Christ's example shows the authoriy he had to deliver with a word and have demons flee.. If we believe that all power in heaven and earth is given to us then we should do the works he did. The first gift needed is of course discernment as all manifestations are not a sign of demon posession but could be an organic illness and would not necessarily respond to a command for a 'spirit' to leave. Or it could be a problem of the will and rebellion against God. IMHO this can be an effect of habitual sin which again is not demon posession. The only example of ministry to a posession that I saw both involved unrepentent alcholics and the effectiveness of prayer although having some effect did not change the will of the individuals and both went back to their sin in time. This I believe is where prayer and fasting comes in as it will bring us more in tune with the spirit realm and increase our discernment.
 
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LinkH

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I know a preacher who said he used to cast demons out in crusades a lot. He'd cast demons out, and it would take a long time, right in the meeting. He got a reputation for it and people would call him in the middle of the night to perform exorcisms. He realized the devil was keeping him from having any peace at home.

Something happened and he realized he just needed to believe it when he spoke a word to cast the devil out. He was at a meeting and commanded a demon to leave. Some people kept dealing with the afflicted person. He told them to leave that person alone. He'd already commanded the demon to leave in Jesus' name. She got free quick, and after that, he didn't have the problem of demons taking a long time to come out of people in his meetings.
 
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tturt

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Just hope that those who do deliverance, teach how to maintain it.

Matt 12:43When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
 
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FoundInGrace

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Just hope that those who do deliverance, teach how to maintain it.

Matt 12:43When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Yes
IMHO the discipling afterwards is very important. We are called to make disciples. That means walking alongside the good and the bad in someone and ministering truth and love. I say this being very grateful for the person who God used to deliver me who then walked alongside me for years afterwards in humility and obedience to the Lord. it is incredibly humbling God is very merciful.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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What I am learning is that demons are not primarily responsible for problems. They piggyback on existing spiritual and emotional problems that are already there. Many demonized believers brought the demons in with them when they got converted. Other ways of introducing demons is backsliding, getting involved in occult or new age activities and bringing idols into the home.

Demons are like a rat infested house where they feed on the garbage that is there. Get rid of the rats without cleaning out the garbage and the rats will just come back again. That is why a lot of "altar call" deliverances don't last.

The garbage is those spiritual and emotional issues in a believer's life that need deep healing. Maybe there are healing of memory or forgiveness issues. Clean out the garbage and this weakens the rats and makes it easier to get rid of them. In the same way, demons are weakened, and often are evicted from the believer without any drama at all.

The reason why there is so much sound and fury at altar calls when attempts are made to cast demons out, is that the "sons of Sceva" are trying to attack demons without spending time getting rid of the "garbage" first. Or they are trying to cast out occult demons where the believer has not renounced and repented from the occult behaviour.

Where a person has invited demons in by new age or occult practice, the demon has a right to be there, and no matter how much commanding and shouting at the demons "in the Name of Jesus", nothing will happen, because the believer has given the rights for the demon to be there, and only when he/she repents, renounces and pleads the blood of Jesus and fully cooperates with the counsellor, the demon will reluctantly acknowledge that it has no further right to be there.

Most successful deliverances happen away from public church meetings, in the counsellor's office where anywhere up to three hours for an initial session may be needed to deal with spiritual and emotional issues before a deliverance can take place.

Most "deliverance" sessions in public meetings with shouting, commanding and screaming of demons is more of showmanship and theatre than real deliverance. A minister does not have to yell and shout to have true authority in Christ. Real authority can be very quiet. A demon will fully acknowledge the authority of an anointed, Spirit-filled believer who has been properly trained in deliverance. The demon will have no option to leave when approached in the right way.

We don't read about Jesus having to shout at demons when evicting demons from people.

There are two ways to cast out demons:
1. The way that Jesus and Paul did it
2. The way the sons of Sceva did it.

Without proper training, most who try to cast out demons will flee "naked and wounded" after failing.
 
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Yitzchak

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What I am learning is that demons are not primarily responsible for problems. They piggyback on existing spiritual and emotional problems that are already there. Many demonized believers brought the demons in with them when they got converted. Other ways of introducing demons is backsliding, getting involved in occult or new age activities and bringing idols into the home.

Demons are like a rat infested house where they feed on the garbage that is there. Get rid of the rats without cleaning out the garbage and the rats will just come back again. That is why a lot of "altar call" deliverances don't last.

The garbage is those spiritual and emotional issues in a believer's life that need deep healing. Maybe there are healing of memory or forgiveness issues. Clean out the garbage and this weakens the rats and makes it easier to get rid of them. In the same way, demons are weakened, and often are evicted from the believer without any drama at all.

The reason why there is so much sound and fury at altar calls when attempts are made to cast demons out, is that the "sons of Sceva" are trying to attack demons without spending time getting rid of the "garbage" first. Or they are trying to cast out occult demons where the believer has not renounced and repented from the occult behaviour.

Where a person has invited demons in by new age or occult practice, the demon has a right to be there, and no matter how much commanding and shouting at the demons "in the Name of Jesus", nothing will happen, because the believer has given the rights for the demon to be there, and only when he/she repents, renounces and pleads the blood of Jesus and fully cooperates with the counsellor, the demon will reluctantly acknowledge that it has no further right to be there.

Most successful deliverances happen away from public church meetings, in the counsellor's office where anywhere up to three hours for an initial session may be needed to deal with spiritual and emotional issues before a deliverance can take place.

Most "deliverance" sessions in public meetings with shouting, commanding and screaming of demons is more of showmanship and theatre than real deliverance. A minister does not have to yell and shout to have true authority in Christ. Real authority can be very quiet. A demon will fully acknowledge the authority of an anointed, Spirit-filled believer who has been properly trained in deliverance. The demon will have no option to leave when approached in the right way.

We don't read about Jesus having to shout at demons when evicting demons from people.

There are two ways to cast out demons:
1. The way that Jesus and Paul did it
2. The way the sons of Sceva did it.

Without proper training, most who try to cast out demons will flee "naked and wounded" after failing.

This is a very good post Oscar. Thank you for the insights.

" Lord have mercy upon us your church as we sometimes stumble around on these issues. "
 
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gratefulgrace

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The gospels sometimes says the demon came out in the same hour. .. that could be seen as Jesus speaking/praying for upto an hour to get the demon to leave. Just an interpretation, we don't have a definitive time given.
At that very hour I believe is a way to say at that very moment. Check out some other translations the ESV and NASB both say instantly. gg
 
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gratefulgrace

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What I am learning is that demons are not primarily responsible for problems. They piggyback on existing spiritual and emotional problems that are already there. Many demonized believers brought the demons in with them when they got converted. (I am not sure I agree with this statement Oscar as The word says he saves to the outermost)Hbr 7:25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them

Other ways of introducing demons is backsliding, getting involved in occult or new age activities and bringing idols into the home.


Demons are like a rat infested house where they feed on the garbage that is there. Get rid of the rats without cleaning out the garbage and the rats will just come back again. That is why a lot of "altar call" deliverances don't last.

The garbage is those spiritual and emotional issues in a believer's life that need deep healing. Maybe there are healing of memory or forgiveness issues. (This was the case in one instance but we only learned of this many years later) Clean out the garbage and this weakens the rats and makes it easier to get rid of them. In the same way, demons are weakened, and often are evicted from the believer without any drama at all.

The reason why there is so much sound and fury at altar calls when attempts are made to cast demons out, is that the "sons of Sceva" are trying to attack demons without spending time getting rid of the "garbage" first. Or they are trying to cast out occult demons where the believer has not renounced and repented from the occult behaviour.

Where a person has invited demons in by new age or occult practice, the demon has a right to be there, and no matter how much commanding and shouting at the demons "in the Name of Jesus", nothing will happen, because the believer has given the rights for the demon to be there, and only when he/she repents, renounces and pleads the blood of Jesus and fully cooperates with the counsellor, the demon will reluctantly acknowledge that it has no further right to be there.Yes

Most successful deliverances happen away from public church meetings, in the counsellor's office where anywhere up to three hours for an initial session may be needed to deal with spiritual and emotional issues before a deliverance can take place.

Most "deliverance" sessions in public meetings with shouting, commanding and screaming of demons is more of showmanship and theatre than real deliverance. A minister does not have to yell and shout to have true authority in Christ. Real authority can be very quiet. A demon will fully acknowledge the authority of an anointed, Spirit-filled believer who has been properly trained in deliverance. The demon will have no option to leave when approached in the right way.

We don't read about Jesus having to shout at demons when evicting demons from people.

There are two ways to cast out demons:
1. The way that Jesus and Paul did it
2. The way the sons of Sceva did it.

Without proper training, most who try to cast out demons will flee "naked and wounded" after failing.

Very informative Oscar thanks for posting my comments are in red. gg
 
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tturt

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agree with "Many demonized believers brought the demons in with them when they got converted." Things like inner healing and unforgiveness usually have to be taken care of after salvation and then maintained. There is heart work (so our feelings line up with The Word) and the renewing of our minds that still needs to take place. So there will be time differences because as Oscarr said there's stuff there then the deliverance can take place. This is the main reason I oppose the no repentance after salvation is necessary. The Holy Spirit will bring up things that we need to renounce or work through including repentance - and we've got to have His help to do it.

That is why a lot of "altar call" deliverances don't last ----I think they don't last because usually there's no followup, no training, on how to stay delivered. Some have lost ground before they even get back home.

why there is so much sound and fury at altar calls when attempts are made to cast demons out, is that the "sons of Sceva" That may account for some of the noise but this verse also could explain some of it Luk 9:39 “And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out; and it teareth him that he foameth again, and bruising him hardly departeth from him.” ---Sometimes the individual isn't aware of it. Then some wonder if the manifestation was from Yahweh or the person.

I think it's like asking how long someone's been saved - what matters is that they are and growing. The length of time for deliverance varies; however, I think it's a lot more important that the deliverance is happening.

Often there is
backlash and retaliation afterwards, that's the reason there needs to be believers praying while deliverance is taking place and prayers to cover the deliverance team as well as those who have just gone through deliverance. Deliverance is definitely one area where the guidance from the Holy Spirit is needed for each step.


 
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KM Richards

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Hagin wasn't a fan of spending more than a few minutes casting a demon out - he simply spoke the word and believed it done.

I heard Hagin talking about this once and He commented that God had taught him to live a "fasted" life, or a life where he fasted frequently and of course he spent alot of time in prayer.

Here's what God used early in Hagin's ministry to get him with Jesus' program...

Matthew 17:15
Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.
And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.
Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.
And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

Did you notice that Jesus cast the devil out right then and there, and did not have to go fast a pray first???

That's because Jesus has already fasted and prayed...and lived a life of constant fasting and prayer, which is quality time spent privately with the Father meditating on what the Father said...

In other words, Jesus didn't spend all His time textin and hangin at the mall with His homies...He was busy doing the work of the Father!

Our lives would be much more fruitful if we did the same!
 
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KM Richards

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What I am learning is that demons are not primarily responsible for problems. They piggyback on existing spiritual and emotional problems that are already there.

And, demons are the ones that caused the spiritual and emotional problems in the first place, so we're back to square one...

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

The definition of resisting the devil...is submitting oneself to God...and therein lies the problem.

Too many Christians want to be free from the devil, be healthy, have good relationships, prosperity, etc, etc...but they don't want to fully submit their lives to 100% to God.

They have the cart before the horse!

The good stuff comes after you start walking with God where He wants you to be..and then you'll experience some good stuff, but don't forget to spread the good stuff around to others!
 
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