Kaba

[Oxy2Hydr0]

The plant that played such an important role in David`s encounter with the Philistines " 2 Sam 5:22 - 25, 1 Chron 14:13 - 16

From 2 Sam

24 And let it be, when thou hearest the sound of a going in the tops of the mulberry trees, that then thou shalt bestir thyself: for then shall the LORD go out before thee, to smite the host of the Philistines.

Yes I know here it say mulberry trees but when I look into the hebrew verse it say it say baca

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/l...57&Version=kjv

Hi Rut,

I will accept your reference as complete and sufficient as a lexical source.

2 Sam 5:24

וִיהִי בשמעך (כְּשָׁמְעֲך&#1464 אֶת-קוֹל צְעָדָה, בְּרָאשֵׁי הַבְּכָאִים--אָז תֶּחֱרָץ: כִּי אָז, יָצָא יְהוָה לְפָנֶיךָ, לְהַכּוֹת, בְּמַחֲנֵה פְלִשְׁתִּים​

"Mulberry Trees" is translated from בְּכָאִים = bkaim which is plural of בָּכָא = baka in Psalm 84:7 :

עֹבְרֵי, בְּעֵמֶק הַבָּכָא-- מַעְיָן יְשִׁיתוּהוּ;
גַּם-בְּרָכוֹת, יַעְטֶה מוֹרֶה​

The ים = im (yod mem) is the plural suffix

The הַ = he (e) is a prefix to the words is grammatical and not part of the word in root.

Whenever there is reference to the mulberry trees the plural is always used and not the singular. The distinction is exclusively made out in your reference:

The singular form does not carry the meaning of Mulburry tree only its plural denotes Mulberry Tree(s) in which the plural form carries both meanings.

Also, "The Valley of Baka" is a Proper Noun which is a name of an actually valley, which is not metephorical.

The Lexeconist makes it very clear that it is the name of a Valley and assosiates this valley "assumingly" to be in Palestine. I say assumingly cause there can be found absolutely no record or tradition of a Baka valley that resides in palestine.

For years I have squabled through old Bibles with old ancient maps, and even went through the oldest middle eastern maps in our local Libraries, and no where is or has there been a Baka Valley.

The only other reference to the plant is at Psalm 84:6 This may refer to the same "low plain of Rephaim"where David`s fight took place and which plain is believed to be SW of Jerusalem

However your reference does not stipulate that the word Baka is in reference to a plant, only the plural form denotes such a thing, and it suggests the Valley is in Palestine.

Also, your reference says "The Valley of Baka" is a proper noun which is the name of a place.

To settle this debate please provide proof that in Palestine resides "The Valley of Baka" with a well that provided or provides drink for pilgrims that passed through it.

Please Note: All names of locations in the Bible can be found today except for the commemorated location of "The Valley of Baka"

Again, the only place on earth called The Valley of Baka is what is known as modern day Makkah which are facts.

Furthermore, your reference shows the Arabic بكاء = Bakaa, for the the Hebrew בָּכָא = Baka, in which بكة = Bakkah is derived from as a proper noun.

 

[français]

The Korahites were in charge of the Temple (1 Chronicles and they were weeping on Mount Miraz (Psalm 42) and that is what the "Valley of weeping" means!

But, I have had to make 5 posts on that, and will not do so again. If you still can not open your mind and accept that, then it's no wonder you became muslim.. Because of your lack of knowledge!

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

and all 5 of your whining posts failed to provide where the valley of baka is.

The Hebrew Lexicon posted above says "The Valley of Baka" is a proper noun which is the name of a place assumed to be in Palestine in which there is no such thing.

The first time you provided a map of a place called The Valley of Bekaa in which you assumed the word Bekaa was the same as Baka(Baca) in the Bible which it was not.

The secod time you said it is probably refering to "the Valley of Tears" near Golan Heights. This had more serious problems than your first guess.

1) The Valley of Tears was named after the Yum Kippur war in 1973,

2) the actuall semitic name for "tears" is Qunaytirah called the Valley of Qunaytirah or the Qunaytirah Valley,

3) The Valley of Qunaytirah(Tears) is 100 miles NE of Jeruselam that would take almost 500 mile on foot to travel since there is no straight path.

Your conclusion after running into all these dead ends is that Psalms 84 "MUST BE" not literal therefore being metaphorical.

If you accept the Psalms 84 as being metephorical then of course I cannot attest to that other than your Lexicon authoritive sources indicate contrary to your thought.

The fact remains that non of you Christians can deny is that a place called "The Valley of Baka", as a proper noun in Hebrew, DOES exist in Saudi Arabia where pilgrims DO pass through are are given quence from the fountains that reside there.

It is totally understood that you must by any means deny that the Baka spoken about in the Bible could not and is not refering to the Baka in Saudi Arabia. If you were to incline to so you very shackles of your own faith will fall off you.

However, my purpose like always, is never to expect results from talking to a wall, it is merely in our interest to write on the hard wall so that others passing by may see and be guided by it.


Dimitri

Peace !

Edit: In my previous post the picture link to the copy of the Hebrew Lexicon was disabled by someone so it would not appear on the page. So I rerouted the link as an image and made warrant this time to our readers to make note of any future tampering by others to distort what is posted.

 

[français]

and all 5 of your whining posts failed to provide where the valley of baka is.

They weren't whining, they were mere facts, which you could not deny.

The Hebrew Lexicon posted above says "The Valley of Baka" is a proper noun which is the name of a place assumed to be in Palestine in which there is no such thing.

Perhaps it is a place in Palestine, a place that they called "The Valley of Weeping." Many songs call things valley, or this or that, and make it sound like it's some popular place, but it is not. IT is just what they referred it to.

Example: Tupac's song where he says "As I walk through the Valley of the shadow of Death" lol. I think that is by tupac. Now do you mind showing me a place on a map called "Shadow of Death" that is presumably in California or something?

The first time you provided a map of a place called The Valley of Bekaa in which you assumed the word Bekaa was the same as Baka(Baca) in the Bible which it was not.

Yes, and?

The secod time you said it is probably refering to "the Valley of Tears" near Golan Heights. This had more serious problems than your first guess.

No it does not

1) The Valley of Tears was named after the Yum Kippur war in 1973,

And when exactly was mecca called "bakkah" other then in the quran?

2) the actuall semitic name for "tears" is Qunaytirah called the Valley of Qunaytirah or the Qunaytirah Valley,

And what is the actual name for mecca do you think?

3) The Valley of Qunaytirah(Tears) is 100 miles NE of Jeruselam that would take almost 500 mile on foot to travel since there is no straight path.

The problem I have with you interpereting this as mecca, is that you ignore the fact that the Korahites played such an important, crucial war in the Tabernacle. You also ignore the fact that they were doorkeepers. You skip over all those to think that they are going to some pagan city, which just simply is not the fact.

Now, do you mind showing me on a map where samaria was located in the 13th Century BC? Because according to quran (taha:85-88) it was the samaritans that made the golden calf.

Your conclusion after running into all these dead ends is that Psalms 84 "MUST BE" not literal therefore being metaphorical.

If you accept the Psalms 84 as being metephorical then of course I cannot attest to that other than your Lexicon authoritive sources indicate contrary to your thought.

You call it a proper pronoun,

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source proper noun
n. A noun belonging to the class of words used as names for unique individuals, events, or places. Also called proper name.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source proper noun –noun Grammar. a noun that is not normally preceded by an article or other limiting modifier, as any or some, and that is arbitrarily used to denote a particular person, place, or thing without regard to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may have,

The fact remains that non of you Christians can deny is that a place called "The Valley of Baka", as a proper noun in Hebrew, DOES exist in Saudi Arabia where pilgrims DO pass through are are given quence from the fountains that reside there.

Might I ask.. Can you show me any sources PRE ISLAMIC that show that the people on hajj would go to mount arafat, and all of those other places?

It is totally understood that you must by any means deny that the Baka spoken about in the Bible could not and is not refering to the Baka in Saudi Arabia. If you were to incline to so you very shackles of your own faith will fall off you.

Hmm, as I Google through maps of arabia and I try to look at how they were pre islam, never do I see mecca mentioned as bakkah.

Also, it would not "shackle" my faith one bit.

Do you know how easy it would be for mohammad to have hear Psalm 84 and then to call mecca "bakkah" simply for that? I mean my goodness, your ignorance and lack of common sense is destructive. Your false prophet got many historical and Biblical facts wrong.

However, my purpose like always, is never to expect results from talking to a wall, it is merely in our interest to write on the hard wall so that others passing by may see and be guided by it.

And you know, I feel the same about you. Because on page 10, I made 3 long posts about such, and you NEVER NEVER quoted it. Oh, you picked one and chose what you wanted to quote, which was two things.

In my opinion islam is the most filth, disgusting religion in the world. You know what mohammads final words were on death bed? "Exterminate all the Christians and Jews. Arabia does not have place for two religions."

Peace !

As the Jews would say to mohammad
[SIZE=-1]As-Sim-u-'Alaikum
And mohammad would respond
way alay kum

[/SIZE]

Edit: In my previous post the picture link to the copy of the Hebrew Lexicon was disabled by someone so it would not appear on the page. So I rerouted the link as an image and made warrant this time to our readers to make note of any future tampering by others to distort what is posted.

Hm, ever heard of the word technical difficulty?

 

[français]

Oh, by the way.. If you take baca as having to be literal, do these places all have to be literal too?

The Valley of the Shadow of Death - Psalm 23

The Valley of Decision - Joel 3:14

The Valley of Vision - Isaiah 22

 

[Abdurrahim]

John 4:21. `Woman, believe me, the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.'


This interesting prophecy of Prophet Jesus pbuh informs us about worshipping direction change in the future.

Peace

 

[Rut]

John 4:21. `Woman, believe me, the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.'


This interesting prophecy of Prophet Jesus pbuh informs us about worshipping direction change in the future.

Peace

You have correct there but then are the question what he meant.The people that believed in God that time went to the temple to worship with sacrifice animals etc.if you read little more Jesus explained what he meant

23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

That means for me that we shall have no buildings or place to worship God.We can worship God any places we are in.No places are special "holy" that was the new direction

 

[ShyMuslim]

Kjf512,

I need to say something to you. Please stop using insults against our religion, if you have a problem with a tenet of our beliefs, fine, address it. But refrain from calling our religion "flith" or "satanic" as I believe this violates the TOS.

I feel we have tried to deal politely and fairly and for some unknown reason you feel it appropraites to spew nastiness and hatred. You represent Christianity when you post and I must say...overall I am not impressed if you are the standard. You have been rude and sometimes very childish in your posts towards Muslims. I have never made fun of your belief system or a person represented in your religion yet you feel it acceptable to behave in this manner.

I wonder if the moderators know that you just wished death on a Muslim? This is acceptable in Christianity?

As the Jews would say to mohammad
[SIZE=-1]As-Sim-u-'Alaikum [/SIZE]

Please note, moderators, that this is wishing death on a person. When Prophet Mohammmed (pbuh) wished peace to a Jewish man the man replied with above phrase which is wishing death upon the person.

~Sarah

 

[peaceful soul]

Originally Posted by Abdurrahim
John 4:21. `Woman, believe me, the hour cometh when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.'


This interesting prophecy of Prophet Jesus pbuh informs us about worshipping direction change in the future.

Peace

This has nothing to do with Islam. I don't know how many more times that I need to repeat it to you that you are operating off of a false logic by trying to infuse Islam into Christianity by superimposing your thoughts and beliefs into the Bible. The Bible has its own audience, language, symbolism, message, etc. apart from the Qu'ran, that if taken out of context, will lead to to deduce a erroneous conclusions. I don't understand why you don't get this. I would hope that it would be apparent to you, but evidently it is not.

This not only applies to the Bible, but any text that you are reading/studying. The whole purpose of reading/studying is to learn what the individual text is saying by understanding its own background, context, audience, etc. If you were reading a work of Shakespeare, would you try to read Mohammad into it or anyone else or any other thing that is foreign to its background, environment, etc.? Just a simple question that will hopefully wake you up to the reality.

Just because the Qu'ran makes statements about the Bible making some references to the Qu'ran or Mohammad, doesn't make it so. If there were some instances, then the Qu'ran should have explicitly given them to you rather than make conjectures. Likewise, if the Bible was foretelling Mohammad, it would have explicitly said so; but it doesn't. Jesus said that He had finished the work that He was sent to do and consequently saved us from the eternal condemnation of our sins. That is what I hope you come to understand.

Finally, What Rut said is true. Worshiping God in spirit only removes the physical/legal aspects of worship between us and God. That is probably the main reason that Christians are not to be of a religious /legal mindset when worshiping and obeying God. God used to make His presence known within the center of the Temple, but not he resides within each believer in Christ, Jesus because the temple has now become our body. Obeying in Spirit means that God's own spirit is now with us as we walk with Him. If we are humble and obedient to the leading of His Spirit, we can have fellowship with Him and walk under His commands. His Spirit being present within us is what causes us to be transformed more and more into the image of Christ, who stands in our place or substitutes for our righteousness. So, God sees Jesus' righteous acts as completed work for us instead of ours.

 

[français]

Kjf512,

I need to say something to you. Please stop using insults against our religion, if you have a problem with a tenet of our beliefs, fine, address it. But refrain from calling our religion "flith" or "satanic" as I believe this violates the TOS.

I feel we have tried to deal politely and fairly and for some unknown reason you feel it appropraites to spew nastiness and hatred. You represent Christianity when you post and I must say...overall I am not impressed if you are the standard. You have been rude and sometimes very childish in your posts towards Muslims. I have never made fun of your belief system or a person represented in your religion yet you feel it acceptable to behave in this manner.

I am sorry for offending you, and hopefully I will tone it down. there are times when I feel that the line just has to be drawn on ignorance though, like thinking that Psalm 84 is speaking of mecca. It just makes me so mad that someone can actually believe that. And, unfortunetely, it upsets me to an extreme level to where I result in insulting the religion of islam as a whole, and insult members in that religion. God willing, I will change. And I am very sorry if I have offended you and others. I will try to refrain from such in the future.

I wonder if the moderators know that you just wished death on a Muslim? This is acceptable in Christianity?


Please note, moderators, that this is wishing death on a person. When Prophet Mohammmed (pbuh) wished peace to a Jewish man the man replied with above phrase which is wishing death upon the person.

~Sarah

Hah I was wondering when someone would comment on that. I was not being literal when I said that. I was joking. The reason I said it was because people would say that to mohammad, and mohammad would say "and also to you" or something. I was reading sahih muslim last week and i noticed that hadeeth, and I thought it was interesting.

nothing but a joke!

and btw, mohammad would not tell them peace, and then they would say "death." They would start off with saying death be upon you, and mohammad would respond with [SIZE=-1] way alay kum.(and you too)
[/SIZE]

 

[ShyMuslim]

Kj,

I really appreciate the apology, that gained some serious respect points in my book.

Overall I have enjoyed reading the scholarly exchange but I myself am ill-equipped to join in. While my Hebrew is passable my Arabic still has a long way to go.

~Sarah

 

[français]

Kj,

I really appreciate the apology, that gained some serious respect points in my book.

Overall I have enjoyed reading the scholarly exchange but I myself am ill-equipped to join in. While my Hebrew is passable my Arabic still has a long way to go.

~Sarah

Ahh well it's better then me.. I know 0 Hebrew or arabic! (Although I plan on learning Hebrew in the very near future )

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

And when exactly was mecca called "bakkah" other then in the quran?

Bakkah is the original name of Makkah. If you were paying attention to the verse in the Quran (3:96) it says it is where the "first" house of worship was established for mankind.

This goes before the time of Abraham, and back to a time when mankind was but one nation in the land before they became divided:

Q 10:19

وَمَا كَانَ النَّاسُ إِلاَّ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً فَاخْتَلَفُواْ وَلَوْلاَ كَلِمَةٌ سَبَقَتْ مِن رَّبِّكَ لَقُضِيَ بَيْنَهُمْ فِيمَا فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ​

Mankind was but one nation, and then differed (later). Had it not been for a word that went forth before from your Lord, their differences would have been settled between them

Just as you have demonstrated in your Bible which is the custom of all semitic people, names of place where given to such location based on commemorated events.

How did the location get the name Makkah ?

First lets know what the word Makkah means. The word Makkah is a proper noun that is related to Makuk which means drinking cup.

The place got its name by tradition as being a place that welled water. The valley only became known as a place that welled water after the event of Ishmael and his mother. When the vally became known for its welled water beduins caravan started to settle there.

This is how the valley became populated and was started to be called "Makkah".

Before this the area was a waste land with no water and it was deserted long time ago.

The meaning of Bakkah (Weaping):

The Quran meantioned the name Bakkah to the valley all the way back to the time when Mankind was but one nation in which the first house of worship (the ka'abah) was established.

Since the first house of worship was established there when manking was one nation before it became divided and spreaded out through the earth was originally the first place on earth mankind was established which goes all the way back to out great Mother and Father Adam and his wife.

Like all locations and how they obtained their names, Bakkah obtained it name from a commemorated event.

This commemorated event is alluded to the weaping and wailing of Adam and his Wife in the Valley from being taken out of Jannah to the earth where the house was first built and established for mankind.

After a period of time mankind differed amongst it self and started to disperse in the earth and idolatry became rampant even at Bakkah. The valley and the region eventually became uncultivated and droughted making it uninhabitable to live.

To the time of Abraham G-d guided him and his son to the original location to purify and to reestablish the house and its religious rites. After the region became re-populated by the attraction of the well water and became a civilization of trade and commerce and relgious pratice it again fell to the introduction of idolatry long after the time of Abraham and Ishmael.

G-d later in time sent again a prophetic messenger from among their own to purify the house and reestablish the religious rites that were defiled by idolatry introductions.

And what is the actual name for mecca do you think?

Both Bakkah and Makkah are its proper names. The eldest name is Bakkah.

The problem I have with you interpereting this as mecca, is that you ignore the fact that the Korahites played such an important, crucial war in the Tabernacle. You also ignore the fact that they were doorkeepers. You skip over all those to think that they are going to some pagan city, which just simply is not the fact.

The problem with this is you cannot provide proof of where the location of the Valley of Baka is othern than in Saudi Arabia

Now, do you mind showing me on a map where samaria was located in the 13th Century BC? Because according to quran (taha:85-88) it was the samaritans that made the golden calf.

Surah Taha:85-88 does not speak of a "location" named Samaria. It speaks of a person called Al-Samiri. Al-Samiri is an Arabicized form of an old Egyptian word Shemer that means stranger or foreigner. In the Quranic context it means The Stranger (Al-Samiri).

You call it a proper pronoun,

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source proper noun
n. A noun belonging to the class of words used as names for unique individuals, events, or places. Also called proper name.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source proper noun –noun Grammar. a noun that is not normally preceded by an article or other limiting modifier, as any or some, and that is arbitrarily used to denote a particular person, place, or thing without regard to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may have,

Your Hebrew Lexical source says it is a proper noun.

All you did is add in support that it is the name of a place ie location.

Might I ask.. Can you show me any sources PRE ISLAMIC that show that the people on hajj would go to mount arafat, and all of those other places?

How can we answer this question when your inquiry is based on that the Psalms is speaking about a current even in its time when the Psalms was revealed?

We see the Psalms speaking about a current location with regards to a future event.

Hmm, as I Google through maps of arabia and I try to look at how they were pre islam, never do I see mecca mentioned as bakkah.

How in the world could you map google an ancient name location ? You limit your search to Google ? Did I limit my search looking for the Valley of Baca mentioned in the bible to Google ? I asked you for a map or location of where the Valley of Baka is at.

For years I have squabled through old Bibles with old ancient maps, and even went through the oldest middle eastern maps in our local Libraries, and no where is or has there been a Baka Valley.

I searched in your sources to help with identifying a location in your Bible. You cant google for an ancient location name. Google maps gives modern location names not ancient loction names.

Arabic Makkah, ancient Bakkah or Macoraba city, western Saudi Arabia, located in the Sirat Mountains, inland from the Red Sea coast. It is the holiest of Muslim cities. Muhammad, the founder of Islam, was born in Mecca, and it is toward this religious centre that Muslims turn five times daily in prayer. All devout Muslims attempt a http://www.britannica.com/eb/topic?idxStructId=252050&typeId=13hajj (pilgrimage) to Mecca at least once in their lifetime. Because it is sacred, only Muslims are allowed to enter the city.

www.britannica.com

Even the Britannica knows where Bakkah is located at.

 

[français]

I am sorry, but I do not accept your interpretation. Looking at how important the Tabernacle was to them and such, and seeing how they were crying(weeping) in Psalm 42, I find it improbable that it is
speaking of mecca!

Baca simply means weeping. It is such a general reference, and it could refer to anything for the love of HaShem!

If you wish to accept it as mecca.. Then fine, that's your choice. But I disagree with you. The history of the Korahites and the Tabernacle, and the description of the Tabernacle to the Temple referred to in Psalm 84, are just amazing. And I find it totally improbable for it to refer to mecca.

Also, if it was referring to mecca, then why don't ancient Biblical maps show is at mecca!! I have some ancient biblical maps on my computer, And I will do a screenshot of what my Biblical map of arabia looks like

 

[français]

http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/kjf512/?action=view&current=baca1.jpg -


Very small because it will not upload to the regular side. That just basically shows arabia, and nowhere does it say "bakkah."

 

[Islam_mulia]

I am sorry, but I do not accept your interpretation. Looking at how important the Tabernacle was to them and such, and seeing how they were crying(weeping) in Psalm 42, I find it improbable that it is
speaking of mecca!

Baca simply means weeping. It is such a general reference, and it could refer to anything for the love of HaShem!

If you wish to accept it as mecca.. Then fine, that's your choice. But I disagree with you. The history of the Korahites and the Tabernacle, and the description of the Tabernacle to the Temple referred to in Psalm 84, are just amazing. And I find it totally improbable for it to refer to mecca.

Also, if it was referring to mecca, then why don't ancient Biblical maps show is at mecca!! I have some ancient biblical maps on my computer, And I will do a screenshot of what my Biblical map of arabia looks like

I would like you kjf to reply to these questions cause you been floating everywhere depending on which way the wind blows. My questions:

1. I have mentioned that Psalms 84 was about David's longing to be at the House of God and was for the Korahites to appreciate. The 'sons of Korah' were connected with the service of songs (not writing Psalms)

"These are they whom David set over the service of song in the house of Yahweh, after that the ark had rest. And they ministered with song before the tabernacle of the tent of meeting, until Solomon had built the house of Yahweh in Jerus" (1Ch 6:31,32).

i) If as you claimed the passage was about 'weeping' and the 'Feast of Tabernacle', please once again tell us why the need to 'cry' and 'weep' in a festive occasion.

ii) Despite my point that David, in Psalms 84, longed to be at the House of God, at the Valley of Baca, why do you think that the Psalmist would be 'lamenting' to be at the House of God when you believe the House of God (you call it the Tabernacle) is at Jerusalem? If it was the Korahites who wrote Psalms 84, why the need to longed to be at the House of God?

iii) You have not come back and tell us why the pilgrimage entails going as far as the mountain in Jordan, or the Bekaa Valley, or the Golan Heights (lol) and ending the pilgrimage at Jerusalem? There has never been such practice among the Jews of such a pilgrimage. Please explain to us in detail.

 

[français]

I will tell you like I have said more then once.

They are simply PASSING THROUGH the Valley of Weeping to GET TO ZION.

The "valley of Weeping" is NOT part of the pilgrimage. They simply pass through it to GET to Zion.

 

[Islam_mulia]

I will tell you like I have said more then once.

They are simply PASSING THROUGH the Valley of Weeping to GET TO ZION.

The "valley of Weeping" is NOT part of the pilgrimage. They simply pass through it to GET to Zion.

1. But Psalms 84 was talking about the person (David) whose "soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the Lord'" (verse 1).

It reflects the inability of the person to get to the House of God at that moment, not the fact that they would reach Zion very soon. Why would the person cry and longed to be in a place they are reaching?

2. If the 'valley of weeping' is not part of pilgrimage, why do you take the efforts to locate the Valley of Baca at Mount Morian in Jordan, the Bekaa Valley and the Golan Heights. .. the only obvious fact is that you are confused, you cannot link one with the other, and you just cannot face the fact that your ideas are erroneous.

3. I took great pains to pose a few questions to clear up the misunderstanding that you have at Post #136. Your quick jumping away from the questions only show your ideas of the Feast of Tabernacle, the Korahites and the Valley of Baca cannot be neatly linked together and in many ways cannot explain its relevance to Psalms 84.... and that is how the cookie crumbles!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

kabah is the first place which God assigned to be for worshipping HIM. It was built by the angles , latter it was demolished , God ordered His Prophets; Abraham and Ishmael to rebuild it, they did.​

God also ordered Abraham to perform Hajj, he did , and since then until today Hajj is performed annually by millions of Muslims from all over the world. this means that Islam is the religion of Abraham which is monotheism or Islam.
At a period of time after that the Pagans distorted the real meaning of Islam , they worshipped idols besides God , claiming that the idols make them closer and more accepted to God, then came the advent of Prophet Muhammad PBUH , he brought Islam back to its real meaning, millions of Muslims pray daily at Makkahs Mosque (Alkabah)
Hajj is mentioned in Isaiah 42 : 10-17 and the Holy Mosque in Makkah is mentioned in Isaiah 60 : 7​

Why do Muslims continue to use the OLD TESTAMENT to show it is Muhammad and Muslims.
Everything in Isaiah concerns JESUS and His Salvation for both Israel and the World.


Isaiah 42:10 Sing to Yahweh, a song that is new, His praise, from the end of the earth,--Ye that go down to the sea, and the fulness thereof, The Coastlands and ye who dwell therein. 11 Let the wilderness shout, and the cities thereof, The villages wherein dwelleth Kedar,--Let the inhabitants of the crag, raise shouts of triumph, From the top of the mountains, let them cry aloud: 12 Let them render unto Yahweh, glory,--And, his praise, in the Coastlands let them tell. 13Yahweh, as a hero, goeth forth, As a man of war, he stirreth up jealousy,--He giveth a cry, yea he raiseth a war-cry, Over his foes, he showeth his strength. 14 I have held my peace from age-past times, I kept still, I restrained myself,--As a travailing woman, I pant, I breathe hard and gasp, all at once! 15 I will lay waste mountains, and hills, And all their vegetation, will I wither,--And I will make rivers to be shores, And lakes, will I dry up: 16 Thus will I lead the blind, by a way they know not, In paths they know not, will I guide them,--I will make the place that was dark before them to be, light. And crooked ways, to be, straight, These things, have I done unto them, And have not forsaken them. 17 They have drawn back They turn very pale Who have been trusting in a graven image,--Who have been saying to a molten image, Ye, are our gods!

 

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1. But Psalms 84 was talking about the person (David) whose "soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the Lord'" (verse 1).

It reflects the inability of the person to get to the House of God at that moment, not the fact that they would reach Zion very soon. Why would the person cry and longed to be in a place they are reaching?

maybe because they want to get their quicker? lol

2. If the 'valley of weeping' is not part of pilgrimage, why do you take the efforts to locate the Valley of Baca at Mount Morian in Jordan, the Bekaa Valley and the Golan Heights. .. the only obvious fact is that you are confused, you cannot link one with the other, and you just cannot face the fact that your ideas are erroneous.

notice that I did that on like page 9 or 10, and I did it because mr. oxy2hydro asked.

However, if you read, in page 10 I said that it was metaphorical, as the Korahites were weeping in Psalm 42.

And if you know the history of the Korahites, you will know why they would be weeping.

The "valley of weeping" is not a part of the pilgrimage! And I have said all along

3. I took great pains to pose a few questions to clear up the misunderstanding that you have at Post #136. Your quick jumping away from the questions only show your ideas of the Feast of Tabernacle, the Korahites and the Valley of Baca cannot be neatly linked together and in many ways cannot explain its relevance to Psalms 84.... and that is how the cookie crumbles!

I did not jump away from the questions. I simply answered in a simple way that answered all your questions. And I have repeated myself at least 4 or 5 times on this topic.

So... Allow me to restate yet once again...

Psalm 84 - About Korahites (v.1)

Psalm 42 - About Korahites (v.1)

Psalm 42 - Korahites are crying (v. 1,3,4)

Psalm 84 - Mentions passing through the "Valley of weeping" (v.6)

Psalm 42 - Korahites mentioned where they will remember the Lord during their time of weeping (v.7)

1 Chronicles - Duties of the Korahites at the Tabernacle mentioned.
- Doorkeepers

Tabernacle - On Zion

The role of the Korahites at the Tabernacle is a huge role. The Korahites played a significant role with the Tabernacle. They were crying in Psalm 42.

What more can I say?
what more do I need to say?


If you wish to interpret "baca" as mecca, then that is your choice. I have done everything I could to explain what the weeping meant, explaining the crucial role the Korahites played in the Tabernacle, etc.

But my view is what I have stated over and over. And I am keeping it at that.