Justifying Abortion

[Sleepy089]

I will end by telling you a true story. A mother who was pregnant was told her baby was badly deformed and would not live outside of the womb for very long so an abortion was the best option. The mother said no. Regardless of how long she lives she is going to be born.

The baby was delivered and live for 13 hours. For every minute of that time, the mother cradled the baby in her arms and when the baby died, she said that was the most wonderful time in her life.

Someone close to me had a medical problem with the child that didn't allow its bones to form completely about 30% of its lungs formed. Her very Christian doctor an her pastor all encouraged her to carry to term. The baby was born his body was like Jell-O and he spent the next hour suffocating to death. She was not grateful that she got to hold her child for an hour she was sorry that she had not had an abortion an spared her child and agonizing 1 hour of life.

 

[artie annie]

And you see that is why people fight you guys so hard. First off if a abortion is botched and the baby is born alive to throw it in the trash would be murder literally in the eyes of the law this was a good number of years ago but I remember a case similar to what you're saying and the doctor in the woman who had the abortion are both in prison. If the child is breathing and not in the woman's body it's called Born alive and throwing it in the trash amounts to homicide. Misrepresentation, I got a friend who works it a planned parenthood I'm sorry to tell you the first question they ask is not do you want to have an abortion. Two women in my family had to have an abortion both for medical reasons. A close friend was getting raped at a frat party. I know quite a few cases of women who had abortions not one of them was convenient for them. Here's a fact most doctors won't do an abortion for a woman who's 6 months pregnant are more unless there's medical reasons and most women would not ask to have an abortion at 6 months. My friend who was raped at her abortion about 2 months in. Oh and finally on your comment about women being happy for only having 13 hours with their child. Someone close to mehad a medical problem with the child that didn't allow its bones to form completely about maybe 30% of its lungs formed. Her very Christian doctor in her pastor all encouraged her to carry to term in the prey. The baby was born his body was like Jell-O and he spent the next hour suffocating to death. She was not grateful that she got to hold her child for an hour she was sorry that she had not had an abortion inspired her child and agonizing 1 hour of life. I keep hearing people say only 1% of people have abortions over cases like rape in medical issue....And yet every abortion I've heard has fallen thin toose categories. And again christians make up false stories about planned Parenthood and abortions all in this belief that all pregnancy should be carried to term. But here's the best part not one of you guys want to pay for it. I remember story in reader's digest a woman gave birth to a mentally handicapped child and left it at the hospital, the child was sent to a group home. I always think it's funny none of the so-called Christians who insist all babies be born want to take care of the ones who are disabled orgive form to our have some horrible disease that means they're not going to live very long.

I don't respond to posts that do not have paragraphs

 

[artie annie]

I'll just say that if you are pro-life, you should be totally against the attempts to restart the economy at the cost of people's lives, just to be consistent.

Except that the post is not talking about restarting the economy.

 

[artie annie]

This alone refutes your post. That claim was due to a dishonest investigation of Planned Parenthood. The "fees" chargned are minuscule when compared to actual costs. A business that operated on that principle would be bankrupt in a month. The amounts received barely covered shipping and handling, it did not come close to making a profit. Prices ranged from $30.00 to $100.00. I don't know if you ever have to pay a full doctor's bill without insurance. That won't come even close. Here is an article that refutes that claim:

Unspinning the Planned Parenthood Video

And if you are really against abortion you really should be a supporter of Planned Parenthood. Planned Parenthood provides a lot more in the way of services than abortion. They help hugely with birth control. In fact areas with Planned Parenthood services have fewer abortions than areas without them.

By the way, no babies have been murdered due to Roe vs. Wade. Zygotes, embryos, and fetuses are not babies. Nor is it murder. The best way to oppose abortion is to provide birth control at no charge, both for the medications and the doctor's appointments that are required to get them. Do you advocate for government paid birth control? If one does not one cannot really claim to be anti-abortion.

 

[artie annie]

If you read what I had said you will have noticed that my history is 30 years with this issue. That being the case, I have heard everything you have claimed more than once so it is a case of accepting the body of evidence I have and has been proven.

I realise that with those who are happy with the murder of little babies in the womb, that they will invent all sorts of red herrings to justify their cause but as I am not trying to justify my cause, I am sticking with the facts as I have found them to be, as in Anne Lastman's book about women who have had abortions and 20 years later are still suffering from its effects.

So, I am not going to defend myself against you as I know I do not need to. If you want to try and convince me I am wrong be my guest but be assured it will fall on deaf ears.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If you read what I had said you will have noticed that my history is 30 years with this issue. That being the case, I have heard everything you have claimed more than once so it is a case of accepting the body of evidence I have and has been proven.

I realise that with those who are happy with the murder of little babies in the womb, that they will invent all sorts of red herrings to justify their cause but as I am not trying to justify my cause, I am sticking with the facts as I have found them to be, as in Anne Lastman's book about women who have had abortions and 20 years later are still suffering from its effects.

So, I am not going to defend myself against you as I know I do not need to. If you want to try and convince me I am wrong be my guest but be assured it will fall on deaf ears.

Calling abortion murder is simply admitting that one cannot reason rationally.

Let's get back to your claim that Roe vs. Wade was intended to "make abortion available in very limited circumstances. The mothers health, rape or deformity of the baby. Nothing more."

That was clearly not the case. You can read about it in the linked article below. In fact for the first three months there were to be no restrictions at all:

"In the first trimester of pregnancy, the state may not regulate the abortion decision; only the pregnant woman and her attending physician can make that decision."

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I am sure that there are other errors in your rant, but I have shown two rather large ones. And then there is the inability to argue the case properly. You are not going to convince anyone debating that way. Now there may be proper reasons to oppose abortion, but you did not come up with any.

 

[Sleepy089]

Sadly most of the arguments Christians make about abortions are not based on any facts. Like the rant about abortion babies being born alive and killed. I'm sorry to tell you but if abortion is botched an you have a live baby and they kill it it's called murder homicide to be precise it's illegal I don't think many doctors are not the type of person who wants to spend the rest of their life in prison.

The suffering of the baby during the abortion, fact the part of the brain that allows you to feel and comprehend pain doesn't form till the bout the third trimester around 26 to 28 weeks...and most doctors won't do abortion at that point with the exception of medical reasons

 

[artie annie]

Calling abortion murder is simply admitting that one cannot reason rationally.

Let's get back to your claim that Roe vs. Wade was intended to "make abortion available in very limited circumstances. The mothers health, rape or deformity of the baby. Nothing more."

That was clearly not the case. You can read about it in the linked article below. In fact for the first three months there were to be no restrictions at all:

"In the first trimester of pregnancy, the state may not regulate the abortion decision; only the pregnant woman and her attending physician can make that decision."

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I am sure that there are other errors in your rant, but I have shown two rather large ones. And then there is the inability to argue the case properly. You are not going to convince anyone debating that way. Now there may be proper reasons to oppose abortion, but you did not come up with any.

My wife has set out her position and you have set out yours so please stop hassling her

Artie Andy

 

[artie annie]

Sadly most of the arguments Christians make about abortions are not based on any facts. Like the rant about abortion babies being born alive and killed. I'm sorry to tell you but if abortion is botched an you have a live baby and they kill it it's called murder homicide to be precise it's illegal I don't think many doctors are not the type of person who wants to spend the rest of their life in prison.

The suffering of the baby during the abortion, fact the part of the brain that allows you to feel and comprehend pain doesn't form till the bout the third trimester around 26 to 28 weeks...and most doctors won't do abortion at that point with the exception of medical reasons

Having been looking into the issue for 30 years, I have found what you have said is not true. I hope that me having a different perspective does not offend you.

 

[artie annie]

No one can justify the killing of innocent little babies. To do that you have to invent fairy stories to appease the conscience like...

The baby in the womb is not a baby, it is blob of cells. That is a strange one as ultrasound shows quite clearly a baby with a head, fingers, toes, and the ability to suck their thumb.

The baby feels nothing when they are aborted. One only has to watch the "Silent Scream" to know that this is not so.

It is not a baby until it is born. So if it is not a baby until it born, then that means that the day before it is born it is not a baby. So what happens in that 24 hours that makes it a baby?

Late term abortion is a right. If that is a case, how come babies at 23 weeks are born and live if it is not a baby.

If it is a down syndrome baby it is better that it does not live. Who says so? Who made you God?

At a meeting that was called to discuss abortion by a local MP, they were trying to justify it by saying it is not a baby. I held up a photo of an aborted baby which was a baby in every sense of the word. I asked them " Is this a baby or not?" There was silence because it obviously was a baby, then the MP said "It all depends." She could not tell me what it all depended on.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My wife has set out her position and you have set out yours so please stop hassling her

Artie Andy

How am I hassling her? This is a debate forum. Correcting obvious errors is not hassling. If she has no answers perhaps the problem is either in her position or how she is arguing it. In fact one can be correct and still make incorrect arguments for ones beliefs. It is rarely true, but it is a possibility.

 

[artie annie]

How am I hassling her? This is a debate forum. Correcting obvious errors is not hassling. If she has no answers perhaps the problem is either in her position or how she is arguing it. In fact one can be correct and still make incorrect arguments for ones beliefs. It is rarely true, but it is a possibility.

An error to you maybe but not to christians and I was given the idea that atheists were not allowed on this form so why are you here?

 

[coffee4u]

Someone close to me had a medical problem with the child that didn't allow its bones to form completely about 30% of its lungs formed. Her very Christian doctor an her pastor all encouraged her to carry to term. The baby was born his body was like Jell-O and he spent the next hour suffocating to death. She was not grateful that she got to hold her child for an hour she was sorry that she had not had an abortion an spared her child and agonizing 1 hour of life.

So that is more agonising than having its limbs ripped off in an abortion?

The only shame here is that the mother had been lied to and believed abortion would have given her child a more gentle and loving passing. Abortion is not gentle and loving, it is brutal and aggressive.

Suction Abortion
A suction tube (27 times stronger than a home vacuum cleaner) is inserted into the womb. The powerful suction tears the baby apart limb from limb and sucks it from the womb along with the placenta. The baby's remains are deposited into an attached waste bottle.

Dilation and Curettage (D&C): Used at the end of the third month of pregnancy (approximately 12 weeks) - The cervix is dialated, ring forceps are inserted into the womb and the baby is extracted piece by piece. Then a curette (a sharp knife in a loop shape) is inserted and used to scrape away any of the baby or the placenta that remains. Profuse bleeding follows.

The earliest it's been guessed at feeling pain is 8 weeks gestation.
Expert Tells Congress Unborn Babies Can Feel Pain Starting at 8 Weeks - ONEOFUS

 

[coffee4u]

An error to you maybe but not to christians and I was given the idea that atheists were not allowed on this form so why are you here?

This is the open area, the Christian areas have (Christian only) in brackets.

 

[artie annie]

So that is more agonising than having its limbs ripped off in an abortion?

The only shame here is that the mother had been lied to and believed abortion would have given her child a more gentle and loving passing. Abortion is not gentle and loving, it is brutal and aggressive.

Suction Abortion
A suction tube (27 times stronger than a home vacuum cleaner) is inserted into the womb. The powerful suction tears the baby apart limb from limb and sucks it from the womb along with the placenta. The baby's remains are deposited into an attached waste bottle.

Dilation and Curettage (D&C): Used at the end of the third month of pregnancy (approximately 12 weeks) - The cervix is dialated, ring forceps are inserted into the womb and the baby is extracted piece by piece. Then a curette (a sharp knife in a loop shape) is inserted and used to scrape away any of the baby or the placenta that remains. Profuse bleeding follows.

The earliest it's been guessed at feeling pain is 8 weeks gestation.
Expert Tells Congress Unborn Babies Can Feel Pain Starting at 8 Weeks - ONEOFUS

Just imagine a real live baby is torn limb from limb. If that is not barbaric I don't know what is.

 

[artie annie]

This is the open area, the Christian areas have (Christian only) in brackets.

Thankyou for that bit of information

 

[Subduction Zone]

An error to you maybe but not to christians and I was given the idea that atheists were not allowed on this form so why are you here?

Nope, abortion never kills a baby. This is basic biology. Babies come after delivery.

And many Christians do not agree with you. You would be very mistaken if you said that all Christians want abortion to be illegal. That was a relatively recent campaign by some Christians.

Lastly only some parts of this forum are Christian only. Most of it is only for Christians, but a good part is not.

 

[Tinker Grey]

You would be very mistaken if you said that all Christians want abortion to be illegal.

Yeah, but all True Christians® ...

 

[NxNW]

The earliest it's been guessed at feeling pain is 8 weeks gestation.

This is false. There is no evidence of that level of brain capacity before the fifth month of pregnancy.

 

[Skreeper]

Just imagine a real live baby is torn limb from limb. If that is not barbaric I don't know what is.

I hope you show that same compassion for animals. Or maybe pro-life means that only human lives are worthy of protection?