Justifying Abortion

[JustHereToTalk]

A reminder to Atheist,a Christian has no common ground with you and in the context of Christianity it is you who are irrelevant.

It's not wise for a pro-life advocate to make this a religious issue. First, one need not believe in God at all to be pro-life, and it would be stupid to alienate those who would be your ally on this issue, simply because they disagree with you on another. There's plenty of objective evidence to support a pro-life case, especially to progressives who want to control nearly every other aspect of our lives. Except pot. They're good on pot.

Secondly, if your aim is to convince people, then you should have a better argument than "God hates abortion" for people who disagree with you about God. For people who do agree with you about God, you'll also have to explain how that should translate into making it illegal. If your aim isn't to convince people, then you really don't care about saving lives, do you?

Thirdly, sooner or later you're going to bump into a pro-choice person who is a better Biblical scholar than you, and they'll point out how bogus most attempts to support the pro-life cause with Scripture truly are.

 

[Hetta]

I'm totally pro-life. It's a child at conception type of dude. I do agree that there are that very small amount 1%, but as in a the case of the child (fetus is still a child, just not fully developed, it's human fetus), yes, there are those very rare instances where a child may be sick in the womb. Be born and then die in a few hours to a day away....it's been proven that having the child and letting the family be with that child, even holding that child using the Kangaroo method (where a sick infant is held to a mother or fathers chest, and the vitals of the child get better). That child may still live. That's up to God, not us. He's the bringer of life and the taker. In any case that child and the family will have the strength to make it through no matter the ending. Oh, yeah, it will be hard if the child dies...it's hard for any child to die. But letting it live from the womb, at least gives the child the chance to survive. There is no excuse for any type of abortion.
As far as I know, because I know, I don't know everything. There is only one extremely deathly instance where child will die and possibly could take the mother. Ectopic Pregnancy or (tubular pregnancy). The chances for an child to survive this is about 1%. And it can cause hemorrhaging with the mother and take her. Doctors will do everything in their power to save both the child and mother. Remember "Do no Harm". If the child dies, which is more than likely to happen, then they did their best and God took that child home. And if caught in time, the mother can get pregnant again and have a normal birthing.

There is a question I always ask, when it comes to this hot topic.

"What is it?"

I also ask people to finish this sentence.

"It's okay to kill a child when......."

Gotta love it when a single man makes statements about "oh yeah, it will be hard if the child dies .."

This came up on my FB page today.

"To Donald J. Trump and politicians like him, a late-term abortion is the stuff of ’80s slasher films. 'You can take the baby and rip the baby out of the womb of the mother,' Mr. Trump said during Wednesday night’s debate, a description void of consideration for women, medical professionals or the truth. Such politicians would have you believe that women like me shouldn’t get to make the choice I made. That our baby, despite his tiny misshapen heart and nonexistent aorta, sho...uld have a chance 'to live,' even though that life might have lasted mere minutes. Even though that life would have been excruciatingly painful. These politicians are ignorant of the sacrifices and blessings that come with carrying a pregnancy (let alone a nonviable pregnancy). They do not understand that a majority of women who have late-term abortions are terminating desperately wanted pregnancies...Many women have made the kind of difficult decision I had to make. When it happens to you, they come out of the woodwork. Friends, neighbors, colleagues. A friend of my mother-in-law said to me early on, 'You will always carry this loss, but someday, it won’t define you.' As the two-year anniversary of my abortion approaches, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that we made the right decision for our family — and that our government has absolutely no place in the anguish which accompanies a late-term abortion, except to ensure that women and their families have the right to make their choice safely and privately." - Meredith Isaksen, via The New York Times

 

[essentialsaltes]

I'm not sure that you have noticed, but there is a constitutional ban on slavery.

That's why I used the past tense. It used to be handled state-by-state. So it seems clear to me that handling issues state-by-state is not automagically the best way to legislate matters, contra your post.

Now, where is power to decide matters on abortion granted to the federal government?

The Constitution guarantees certain rights for everyone, and the states cannot infringe them. The federal government is not doing anything, other than ensuring the states do not infringe these rights. Among these are the right to not be enslaved, and certain abortion rights.

 

[JustHereToTalk]

That's why I used the past tense. It used to be handled state-by-state. So it seems clear to me that handling issues state-by-state is not automagically the best way to legislate matters, contra your post.



The Constitution guarantees certain rights for everyone, and the states cannot infringe them. The federal government is not doing anything, other than ensuring the states do not infringe these rights. Among these are the right to not be enslaved, and certain abortion rights.

So your answer is, nowhere.

 

[essentialsaltes]

So your answer is, nowhere.

No, my answer was constitutional guarantees of freedom.

 

[Tull]

It's not wise for a pro-life advocate to make this a religious issue.

Its not a religious issue,its a life and death issue"religous" is a label used to marginalize certain issues,sort of like "politics" if you can label something its easier to dismiss as unimportant

Secondly, if your aim is to convince people, then you should have a better argument than "God hates abortion" for people who disagree with you about God. For people who do agree with you about God, you'll also have to explain how that should translate into making it illegal. If your aim isn't to convince people, then you really don't care about saving lives, do you?

I don't need a better argument since I believe Gods the final word i couldn't care less what people think about it other than the fact they will answer for it one day its their problem not mine,if you have to be convinced that taking life is wrong then you have the problem and the blood is on your hands and there is no excuse for you.

Thirdly, sooner or later you're going to bump into a pro-choice person who is a better Biblical scholar than you, and they'll point out how bogus most attempts to support the pro-life cause with Scripture truly are.

People who twist or ignore scripture to excuse their evil are a dime a dozen and nothing to be impressed by,again that is their problem and not mine.

 

[Cearbhall]

It might not be quite as over as you think. If Trump is elected and appoints conservative justices then Roe v Wade could be overturned and the decision making would be turned back to the states. Don't get too comfortable.

Currently, Clinton's calculated odds of winning Texas are greater than Trump's odds of winning the election. I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch, but a Trump presidency is no longer on my top list of worries. I'm more concerned with the consequences that his recent rhetoric will have when he loses.

 

[Tull]

Because that loving attitude always wins them over, right.

No I don't play little ego games where people set themselves up as the most important person in the room that everyone must defer to,speaking the truth is loving....pandering is not.

 

[Tull]

My experience has been just the opposite of yours, and I care.

Good for you

 

[quatona]

It might not be quite as over as you think. If Trump is elected and appoints conservative justices then Roe v Wade could be overturned and the decision making would be turned back to the states. Don't get too comfortable.

This isn´t by far one of the major issues that make me uncomfortable about the prospect of Trump being elected.

 

[Tull]

Or just make condoms and birth control more easily accessible.

Never been in a drug store yet didn't have them,grocery stores now have them,they are quite common and abundant.

 

[Tull]

No, you didn´t understand the question. Presumably because you don´t care.

Yes I did understand the question,there is no answer that I could have given that you would not have ridiculed so whats the point.

 

[Belk]

It might not be quite as over as you think. If Trump is elected and appoints conservative justices then Roe v Wade could be overturned and the decision making would be turned back to the states. Don't get too comfortable.

On what legal precedent? There is going to have to be some pretty solid reasoning for a re-interpretation of this issue and from everything I have heard it is going to be very hard to issue a legal decision that overturns the view that the government has no business inserting itself into medical decisions. Especially since declaring the fetus a person with rights is not going to change the bodily autonomy issue.

 

[quatona]

Yes I did understand the question,

Your response clearly indicated that you hadn´t understood it.

there is no answer that I could have given that you would not have ridiculed so whats the point.

I didn´t ridicule your response. Remove that chip from your shoulder.

 

[Tull]

Your response clearly indicated that you hadn´t understood it.

I didn´t ridicule your response. Remove that chip from your shoulder.

You say I didn't understand I say I did....there are many things I would like to say but can't do it here so lets just leave it at that.

 

[loveofourlord]

America will be destroyed with abortion firmly in place and will be but one of the reasons for our destruction among many others.

were still waiting for this to happen, after decades of saying it will, wait long enough I'm sure america will be destroyed, like when the robot lizard overlords take over in 2303

 

[Tull]

were still waiting for this to happen, after decades of saying it will, wait long enough I'm sure america will be destroyed, like when the robot lizard overlords take over in 2303

I love arrogance and pride....because I know what its end is.

 

[loveofourlord]

I love arrogance and pride....because I know what its end is.

I love arrogance too, like those that claim to speak for god and proudfully, pridefully and arrogantly shout out with glee how god will destroy X people they hate.

 

[Tull]

I love arrogance too, like those that claim to speak for god and proudfully, pridefully and arrogantly shout out with glee how god will destroy X people they hate.[/QUO

Read your bible sometime and you will see that many have taken the path America is on,its not a matter of glee but a matter of fact that they will be destroyed,has nothing to do with how any one individual feels about it

 

[quatona]

You say I didn't understand I say I did....there are many things I would like to say but can't do it here so lets just leave it at that.

Yeah, I was interested in the answer of the poster I directed the question to (who happens to be the author of this thread, as well), anyway. That´s why I asked him, not you.