Justification in murder

[Shogore]

I and a friend have been wondering about what YOU feel are good reasons for god to kill a human being. We have discussed this and found many reasons, but we're interested in yours. Why does God kill people but deny humans the right to murder another individual? And at what point does "murder" become distinct from "killing"?

 

[Teh Wiccan]

There are reasons for killing, and they may be good, but I believe in any case killing is wrong. Genocide is even worse. Genocide is contained in the bible, and is "Justified." Genocide justified?... Heck no. Genocide cannot be justified.

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

Personally I feel it's only justified when in self defense.

If I wanted to use God as precedence I could kill somebody simply for being immoral (sodom and gomorrah) or bring a nation to it's knees with plagues (Egypt). However I lack the desire and ability to do either.

 

[revolutio]

I felt a growing threat from the Jews, thus I killed them all. There ya go! Justified genocide.

 

[revrobor]

"Murder" and "killing" are not the same. Murder is the unlawful taking of a human life, either in violation of God's law or man's law. Killing is simply the taking of a life, animal or human, when it is lawful (hunting, fishing or execution). War killings (of military personnel) and killing in self-defense or defense of another's life are examples of "execusable homicide".

 

[Plan 9]

There's also manslaughter: the accidental killing of another human being. Intent matters in the law.

 

[Arikay]

Of course, you have to wonder, if god knows everything and can do anything, why should he have to kill in the first place? Aren't there certain people that god could have just kept from being born? You also have to wonder, isn't god killing someone, a dirrect violation of free will? Since its a dirrect stop of the persons ability to have free will.

Yes, I do think I can think of reasons for a non omnipotent god to kill. Unfortunatly the christian god rarely uses them. Instead he kills children because their parents were bad. He orders the death of Women and children because some people from the same city attacked his people. He also orders the death of someone for picking up sticks. I can Not think of a moral justification for these atrocities.

 

[Plan 9]

You know, I would have to do a great deal of reading to prepare a post on this subject, so I just have to ask this:

Will anyone actually give a hotdiggetydog what I post here? Because it seems like that's hardly ever the case. I'm not complaining; I'm just asking is this going to be one of those threads?

 

[Arikay]

I care. But then again, I saying I care feels like preaching to the choir.

BTW, I like the new Avatar.

You know, I would have to do a great deal of reading to prepare a post on this subject, so I just have to ask this:

Will anyone actually give a hotdiggetydog what I post here? Because it seems like that's hardly ever the case. I'm not complaining; I'm just asking is this going to be one of those threads?

 

[Plan 9]

I care. But then again, I saying I care feels like preaching to the choir.

BTW, I like the new Avatar.

Arikay, if you were the only one to read my post through and think it through before making mashed potatoes out of my reasoning, I'd be thrilled!
You know how it gets around here, sometimes; I'm maybe a little too old and tired to argue for argument's sake, even if I enjoyed it and I don't.


Thanks! Kelly made it for me! *insert intensive bragging session on Kelly here*

I just asked for the image of Seven with her phaser rifle, since it gets a little roguh around here and Kelly made me promise to keep its setting on "stun".
He said this version would reflect all my posting moods and it very nearly does.
Seven never once gets so frustrated that she literally attempts to gnaw her own leg off, or becomes so miserable that she openly bursts into tears, so he could find no images which adequately reflect those exact moods. Seven possesses a great deal of self restraint.

 

[openeyes]

Of course, you have to wonder, if god knows everything and can do anything, why should he have to kill in the first place? Aren't there certain people that god could have just kept from being born? You also have to wonder, isn't god killing someone, a dirrect violation of free will? Since its a dirrect stop of the persons ability to have free will.

Yes, I do think I can think of reasons for a non omnipotent god to kill. Unfortunatly the christian god rarely uses them. Instead he kills children because their parents were bad. He orders the death of Women and children because some people from the same city attacked his people. He also orders the death of someone for picking up sticks. I can Not think of a moral justification for these atrocities.

I honestly hate to say this but I'm going to anyway.....
What sparates us from the "animal" kingdom? Very little. We only have the conscience abilty to supress natural urges and an ability to make tools (which I must add that some animals have limited knowledge of this)
With this in mind.... God sees us as a little higher creation, although He has great expectations, and sometimes we get to be pesky pests. What is done to pests? They're exterminated.
When was the last time you justified killing a pest?
What was your reasoning?
You took it's life because it annoyed you?
Destroyed your belongings?
Why not just capture and release?
Let me tell of atrocities..... When a creature kills for the joy of killing (humans only do this). When a species breeds it's own preditors (again humans). If God needs to wipe out a few thousand of us in one fell swoop, so be it. Those of us that hide, under His scripture, will grow fat (with knowledge), just as the pest that does well in hiding grows fat. Although sometimes being "fat" causes problems too..... arrogence and so forth.
I just think that God needs no more justifcation, in extermination, as we do when we deal with pests. Please don't cite to me about children.... collateral damage.
That's how I see it if you are refering to why God "kills".
In man's world there are a lot of legalities governing the act of killing (taking of a life), that's a subject that could take up quit a bit of space.
Sorry if I come off as harsh, but I tend to take a simplistic view of everything around me, I look at the world for what it is.... a bunch of God's creation trying to live in harmony, that apperently humans have decided we are so much better than and so far above that we're above reproach.

 

[Arikay]

So, god kills because he views us and nothing more than bugs?

 

[openeyes]

Although we are greatest of His creations (and he loves us because of this), we still amount to nothing more than part of His creation( yet He loves us in spite of this).
I'm just saying that being as great as, I believe, He is we can be viewed as rodents (not bugs, we're a little more than that.). As His love is so great for us, He allows us to run amuck to a point. Looks at us as little pests running around in a field, lets do as we please, but when we encroach on His "plan"...... BAM.... no more problem, just like the bail on a mousetrap.

 

[Received]

I would say that killing becomes murder when it is an act conditional on no reason other than malice or ill-will; lest we juxtapose killing and murder. This is what Kierkegaard pointed out in his obscurist fashion in Fear and Trembling -- that there is something that transcends the ethical -- faith -- in carrying out specific tasks that may appear to be externally immoral. You can obviously see the difficulty this raises in murder cases -- whether the killing was committed in 'hot blood' -- a crime of passion --, or cold blooded, premeditated murder without revenge, with revenge, etc.

 

[tcampen]

Murder is a legal concept with a precise legal definition, depending on the state's individual law. Thus, if an act is not legally defined as a murder, then calling such is incorrect. One can argue the law should be changed, or that a particular type of killing should be considered murder, but just calling something murder when it is not doesn't make it so. It's all an attempt to use inflamatory words to appeal to emotion rather than reason.

 

[Hezmasaveyour]

.

 

[Sphere]

I and a friend have been wondering about what YOU feel are good reasons for god to kill a human being. We have discussed this and found many reasons, but we're interested in yours. Why does God kill people but deny humans the right to murder another individual? And at what point does "murder" become distinct from "killing"?

If i feel my life, or the life of a loved one of being threatened, then i wouldnt hesitate to act. If its 2 in the morning, and I get woken up by a 'stranger' in my house, he better hope the cops get to him before I do, because he probably wouldn't survive the encounter.

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

If i feel my life, or the life of a loved one of being threatened, then i wouldnt hesitate to act. If its 2 in the morning, and I get woken up by a 'stranger' in my house, he better hope the cops get to him before I do, because he probably wouldn't survive the encounter.

Isn't there just as much chance, if he's armed, he will kill you?

 

[billwald]

There is no evidence that God has killed anyone in the last 5,000 years or so. So either God has reformed/evolved or lost interest in killing humans or the ancient texts are not quite correct.

 

[billwald]

Second, "killed" is an imprecise term. Any non-natural, non-accidental human death is classified as homicide. In Washington State the sub catagories of homicide include murder, excusable homicide, justifiable homicide and vehicular homicide.