Justification in murder

[burrow_owl]

"just calling something murder when it is not doesn't make it so"

I'm gonna disagree with your post - let's say the government is dissolved - total lawlessness. If I kill someone, that's still murder, regardless of whether there's a government with laws that codify my behavior as such. it would still be considered murder. you could certainly come along and say "that's not murder- there's no legal code!" but you won't get very far with that. that's just not how we use the word.

 

[tcampen]

"just calling something murder when it is not doesn't make it so"

I'm gonna disagree with your post - let's say the government is dissolved - total lawlessness. If I kill someone, that's still murder, regardless of whether there's a government with laws that codify my behavior as such. it would still be considered murder. you could certainly come along and say "that's not murder- there's no legal code!" but you won't get very far with that. that's just not how we use the word.

Yea, I saw the Road Warrior too, and you have point there. Mel Gibson was awesome in the that Movie!

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

I have the right to kill a preditor if they are trying to murder me, I dont have the right to kill anybody for political ideologies or $$$ or execute somebody unless they have murdered a member of my immediate family

 

[Jamin Chef]

I honestly hate to say this but I'm going to anyway.....
What sparates us from the "animal" kingdom? Very little. We only have the conscience abilty to supress natural urges and an ability to make tools .

In Genesis the hebrew phrase 'naphesh chayah' is used to describe both animals and humans. 'Naphesh chayah' means animal. Physically and biologically, we are not much different than animals BUT we have something they will never had: we have been created in the image of God. So, humans are animals that have been created in the image of God. A distinction.

 

[burrow_owl]

"Yea, I saw the Road Warrior too, and you have point there. Mel Gibson was awesome in the that Movie"

wow, how clever of you. you must have worked on this rebuttal for hours.

 

[tcampen]

Murder, outside the legal concept, is totally subjective, therefore. What might be considered murder to me might be totally justified for you if there were no laws. Without a clear, established, and enforceable definition of "Murder" you can call killing anything murder. Some vegitarians claim "Meat is Murder." Are they wrong? If so, based on what authority beyond the law? See what I mean?

And yea, road warrior ROCKS!

 

[burrow_owl]

no, not really. it's just not totally subjective. if you're just standing there, we've never met, and i come up and kill you, no one would deny that this is murder. there are going to be confusing cases about the margins, but they're almost always going to devolve upon parsing the facts (was it really self-defense?). it'd be a rare case in which the core definition was up for grabs.

it seems to me, then, that inasmuch as there cases we can all agree are murder, the definition of murder isn't dependent on a legal system.

"If so, based on what authority beyond the law?"

I think you're confusing definitions with the power to coerce others into doing what you want. I mean, what if we disagree about the definition of the word 'quartz.' Even though there isn't a legal authority to which we could appeal (by hypothesis), it doesn't mean that there isn't a right answer to the question 'what is quartz?'

 

[tcampen]

I suppose we could find a definition to fit murder outside the legal system. While the example you posed was easy, not all are. Pro-life advocates themselves vary on what constitutes murder after conception. It just gets very mushy. This is why, for all practical purposes, I see this particular word better reliant on legal definitions than "common understanding."