Justification by Faith-Out Of Date

[bling]

I don't think so. I would suggest you look up texts on self-righteousness

"Faith" does not produce righteousness, but trusting God/Christ does allow deity to make the person righteous. "Faith" is contrasted in the passage with "works" so faith is not work.

 

[bling]

2 Corinthians 5:21 says it's God's righteousness while 1 Corinthians 1:30 says Christ became righteousness for us.

2 Cor 5: 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin* for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

*2 Corinthians 5:21 Or be a sin offering

The Greek word translated “sin” in this passage can also be translated “sin offering” and “sin offering” seems to fit much better. Feel free to do a word study of this.

This is so we might become the righteousness of God and did not say righteousness is imputed to us.

1 Cor. 1: 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Christ is first “wisdom” for us which makes our weak and lowly selves righteous, holy and redeemed.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

"Faith" does not produce righteousness, but trusting God/Christ does allow deity to make the person righteous. "Faith" is contrasted in the passage with "works" so faith is not work.

The problem that I have with that is in the armour given to a Christian soldier. There is nothing there that belongs to him personally and the only defence is the word of God which is the sword that is their's to use. Ephesians 6:10-20 The salvation helmet doesn't belong to them because it is wrought by the captain of faith, which is the shield, but we know that's a gift, He is the truth so we know the belt is not ours, feet shed with the gospel ok who's gospel? the gospel of Christ. So that leaves the breastplate of rightiousness covering the heart. Would you prefer self-rightiuosness or God righteousnes? I'll go with God's. And that is in the plain reading of the Word.

 

[Soyeong]

Justification by Faith — Out of Date?
Benjamin B. Warfield

Sometimes we are told that Justification by Faith is "out of date." That would be a pity, if it were true. What it would mean would be that the way of salvation was closed and "no thoroughfare" nailed up over the barriers. There is no justification for sinful men except by faith. The works of a sinful man will, of course, be as sinful as he is, and nothing but condemnation can be built on them. Where can he get works upon which he can found his hope of justification, except from Another? His hope of Justification, remember — that is, of being pronounced righteous by God. Can God pronounce him righteous except on the ground of works that are righteous? Where can a sinful man get works that are righteous? Surely, not from himself; for, is he not a sinner, and all his works as sinful as he is? He must go out of himself, then, to find works which he can offer to God as righteous. And where will he find such works except in Christ? Or how will he make them his own except by faith in Christ?

Justification by Faith, we see, is not to be set in contradiction to justification by Works. It is set in contradiction only to justification by our Own Works. It is justification by Christ's Works. The whole question, accordingly, is whether we can hope to be received into God's favor on the ground of what we do ourselves, or only on the ground of what Christ does for us. If we expect to be received on the ground of what we do ourselves — that is what is called Justification by Works. If on the ground of what Christ has done for us — that is what is meant by Justification by Faith. Justification by Faith means, that is to say, that we look to Christ and to him alone for salvation, and come to God pleading Christ's death and righteousness as the ground of our hope to be received into his favor. If Justification by Faith is out of date, that means, then, that salvation by Christ is out of date. There is nothing, in that case, left to us but that each man must just do the best he can to save himself.

Justification by Faith does not mean, then, salvation by believing things instead of doing right. It means pleading the merits of Christ before the throne of grace instead of our own merits. It may be doing right to believe things, and doing right is certainly right. The trouble with pleading our own merits before God is not that merits of our own would not be acceptable to God. The trouble is that we haven't any merits of our own to plead before God. Adam, before his fall, had merits of his own, and because he had merits of his own he was, in his own person, acceptable to God. He didn't need Another to stand between him and God, whose merits he could plead. And, therefore, there was no talk of his being Justified by Faith. But we are not like Adam before the fall; we are sinners and have no merits of our own. If we are to be justified at all, it must be on the ground of the merits of Another, whose merits can be made ours by faith. And that is the reason why God sent His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. If we do not believe in him, obviously we must perish. But if we believe in him, we shall not perish but have everlasting life. That is Justification by Faith. Justification by Faith is nothing other than obtaining everlasting life by believing in Christ. If Justification by Faith is out of date, then is salvation through Christ out of date. And as there is none other name under heaven, given among men, wherein we must be saved, if salvation through Christ is out of date then is salvation itself out of date. Surely, in a world of sinful men, needing salvation, this would be a great pity.
​

Maybe we travel in different circles, but I have never seen anyone claim that justification by faith is out of date and that we need to now earn our justification through our own effort. According to Romans 4:1-8, Abraham and David were justified by faith, so the one and only way to become justified is by faith, which means that Moses was justified by faith apart from the law before it was given to him, so the law was never given nor needed for the purpose of providing the means of becoming justified through our own effort. Paul spent a lot of time hammering home the point that obeying the law was never about trying to become justified and that we are justified by faith apart from the law, yet many today still think that obeying the law is about trying to become justified, only they have compounded their error by concluding that therefore we don't need to obey the law, whereas Paul concluded that our faith does not abolish the law, but rather our faith upholds the law (Romans 3:27-31). In Deuteronomy 6:24 and Deuteronomy 10:13, God said that what He commanded was for our own good, so faith has upheld the law since the moment it was given to Moses because obedience to the law has always been about demonstrating that we trust God about how to rightly live, for the righteous shall live by faith (Habakkuk 2:4). Obeying the law is also about demonstrating our love for God (John 14:15) and thereby growing in a relationship with Him based on faith and love. We should not obey the law in order to become justified, but because we have been justified by faith. God's righteousness was not imputed to us so that we would do nothing with it, but rather it was imputed to us so that we would be free to do what God has revealed to be righteous so that we might meet the righteous requirement of the law (Romans 8:3-4). To rephrase Ephesians 2:8-10, we have been declared righteous by grace through faith, not be doing what is righteous, but for the purpose of doing what God has revealed to be righteous by grace through faith. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what God has revealed to be godly, righteous, and good and being trained to renounce doing what God has revealed to be ungodly and sinful, which is essentially what His law was given to reveal to us how to do (Romans 7:12, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The problem that I have with that is in the armour given to a Christian soldier. There is nothing there that belongs to him personally and the only defence is the word of God which is the sword that is their's to use. Ephesians 6:10-20 The salvation helmet doesn't belong to them because it is wrought by the captain of faith, which is the shield, but we know that's a gift, He is the truth so we know the belt is not ours, feet shed with the gospel ok who's gospel? the gospel of Christ. So that leaves the breastplate of rightiousness covering the heart. Would you prefer self-rightiuosness or God righteousnes? I'll go with God's. And that is in the plain reading of the Word.

They are all defensive means but the sword is the only offensive tool.

 

[bling]

Well I am glad that you see that marvelous contrast, because seeing that is the beginning. Faith is not what saves us. Its Christ Alone is what saves us. Faith receives what saves; namely Jesus Christ and all his heavenly blessings. Paul here is preaching the distinction between Law & Gospel in relation to Justification by Faith Alone apart from works. One thing people seem to miss, is that God still demands Perfect Righteousness to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, there is no getting around this. So Paul is saying that no flesh will be Justified through the Law. And because we are sinners, we are incapable of being Righteous.



There is only one way we can be justified before a Holy God. And that is to be righteous! No way around this, either. No human being will be justified in His sight through the works of the Law. But apart from the Law in Christ we receive His perfect righteousness through Faith Alone apart from works of the Law. In other words we look outside ourselves to Christ who is our righteousness, and receive it through Faith (empty hands), and we are clothed in Christ by being unite to Christ by the Holy Spirit in Faith Alone.

Abraham had his faith credited to him as righteousness, but could Abraham stand “Justified” before God?

Were there not righteous people prior to Christ going to the cross?

Acts 13: 39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

There is nothing about obtaining God’s righteousness to obtain justification, but there is faith (believing) and forgiveness.

Faith is our part and faith is not a work.

 

[Soyeong]

OK, but it is really not proving: “The sinner is credited with the Righteousness of Christ in the Gospel's promise”.

It does bring up some wonderful information though:

“Works” (things you do to earn or deserve a wage) is contrasted with “Faith” (stuff you that would not earn you a wage or is deserving of anything). Trusting in God is not “work”, but it is something you can do and it would be credited as righteousness. If you think about it, trusting in God’s help would be the opposite of self-reliance (doing it by your own power), so that would be “worthy” of nothing and really a humbling activity since the lowliest mature adult on earth can do the same thing.

This passage does not suggest Abraham was imputed with Christ’s righteousness, but Abraham’s internal faith was the result of his righteousness, the same as our faith in Christ can result in a righteousness in us, but it does not say it is Christ’s righteousness being imputed to us. .

If you someone instructed you to do something because it was for your own good and you trust them, then you would live accordingly. Every example of faith in Hebrews 11 is of someone who demonstrated that they trusted God by following His instructions. So doing good works is not about relying on yourself, but about relying on God about how you should live. However, it is not our good works that are credited to us as righteousness, but rather is is by faith that righteousness is credited to us and it is by that same faith that we do good works.

 

[Soyeong]

Hmmm.... no. While it is true that we are initially and ultimately saved by grace (without works), not all law mentioned by Paul is in reference to all law in general. Paul made a distinction between the old law and the new law. For Paul says,

"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2).

Translation: There is the:

(a) The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus
(Which is a New Covenant Law) (See Romans 8:1 in the KJV).

(b) The Law of Sin and Death
(Which is the Law of Moses) (For the Law of Moses was called the Law of Sin and Death because you could die physically as part of the penalty in breaking it's Laws). This interpretation is further supported by the fact that verse 3 says, "For what the law could not do,..." (i.e. the Law of Moses could not do). For it would be contradictory to say that the Laws in the New Covenant do not apply in regards to our salvation. For 1 John 3:23 tells us it is a command (i.e. a law) to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Surely you cannot say you are not under this Law or Command and still claim salvation, right?

In other words, when Paul says we are not under the Law (Romans 6:14), he was referring to the Law of Moses and not all Law in general. This is evident by the fact that Paul talks about circumcision in Romans 3:1 and Romans 2:25-29. For circumcision is a part of the Old Law and not the New Law. So it is important to know which Law Paul is talking about. James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). James here is talking about the works of Christ done in a believer after they have repented of their sins and accepted Jesus and His free gift of grace (without any man directed works done by us).

....

In Romans 7:12-25, Paul said that the Mosaic law is holy, righteous, and good, that it is spiritual, that it is the good he sought to do, and the good he delighted in doing, but contrasted that with a law of sin that stirred up sin and caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, so the Mosaic law and the law of sin are opposed to each other. Likewise, in Romans 6:14, it is not the Mosaic law where sin had dominion over us, but it is the law of sin that we are not under when we are under grace. In Galatians 5:16-23, everything listed as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic law, while everything listed as being fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so it doesn't make any sense to interpret Galatians 5:18 as saying that we are not under the Mosaic law if we are led by the Spirit, especially when the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Rather, it is again the law of sin that stirs up the works of the flesh that we are not under if we are led by the Spirit.

Nowhere does the Mosaic law require all Gentiles to become circumcised and nowhere does it require Jews or Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved. According to Romans 2:26, the way we can see whether someone has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic law, which is the same for Jews (Deuteronomy 30:6). The Mosaic law was given because of transgressions to reveal what sin is and without it we wouldn't even know what sin is, (Roman 7:7), so when Jesus was telling people to repent from their sins for the Kingdom of God was at hand, he was telling them to repent from their disobedience to the Mosaic law, which means that repentance from our disobedience to the Mosaic law and turning back to obedience is a central part of the Gospel message.

 

[Soyeong]

Abraham had his faith credited to him as righteousness, but could Abraham stand “Justified” before God?

Were there not righteous people prior to Christ going to the cross?

Acts 13: 39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

There is nothing about obtaining God’s righteousness to obtain justification, but there is faith (believing) and forgiveness.

Faith is our part and faith is not a work.

According to John 8:56, Abraham saw Messiah's day and was glad, so people before the cross looked forward in faith in the promise of a redeemer just as we look backward in faith.

 

[Blade]

Going to put my self out here.. I once was reading in the margin of the bible in 1-3 John somewhere in that. Where they had said..if your heart convicts you, you will not receive anything from God. So I get up and tell God "I quit" I said "my heart convicts me 24/7 of sin". So I walk to the bedroom door reach for it and He asks me "what is righteousness?" I start to turn and say "righteousness is right standing with God" He then asks "how do you get righteousness?" I say "by believing in Jesus". It was like a dam broke open and I could see.

I then had to lol make sure that was really written. I am NOT here saying "thus says the lord"..one since you dont know me. Just telling you sharing what He told me. So what I saw so to speak was ..you can see GOD.. then before Him is Christ and behind Christ is you. God sees YOU through Christ. Jesus is the WAY.. the door. No one gets to the Father but THROUGH Him. We think as we are human aka man. And nothing is free. And God could stand before you and you will still say.. a NO! This is to good to be true. Yet its GOD that cant lie telling you.. a just believe in my son and you are 100% in right standing with the Father.

The "keep my words" do not make you prove you are saved. That is a gift it can not be earned and this is clearly written. Yet just because one says Jesus came died rose.. dose not make one saved. That is something no one knows about the other..other then we try to see the fruits of the spirit in them. In the end ..it is only the Father/Jesus that know the heart and only HE sees who is and how is not in HIS books. So you are in right standing with the Father because you believe in Yeshua (Jesus). Nothing you do can earn that. You can disagree what ever.. still does not change what is written. No one on this planet can save you. You can keep my personal belief or some Church..but that can not save you. You and you alone have to work out your own salvation. There is wisdom to ask to seek..like some do here. In the end.. you and you alone have to seek Him ask HIm pray to HIm. HE IS SO REAL! Loves you so ..oh you have no clue how much HE loves this world..

All that is made all we can see was made by Him. He loves you more then you can ever know

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In Romans 7:12-25, Paul said that the Mosaic law is holy, righteous, and good, that it is spiritual, that it is the good he sought to do, and the good he delighted in doing, but contrasted that with a law of sin that stirred up sin and caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, so the Mosaic law and the law of sin are opposed to each other. Likewise, in Romans 6:14, it is not the Mosaic law where sin had dominion over us, but it is the law of sin that we are not under when we are under grace. In Galatians 5:16-23, everything listed as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic law, while everything listed as being fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it, so it doesn't make any sense to interpret Galatians 5:18 as saying that we are not under the Mosaic law if we are led by the Spirit, especially when the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Rather, it is again the law of sin that stirs up the works of the flesh that we are not under if we are led by the Spirit.

Nowhere does the Mosaic law require all Gentiles to become circumcised and nowhere does it require Jews or Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved. According to Romans 2:26, the way we can see whether someone has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic law, which is the same for Jews (Deuteronomy 30:6). The Mosaic law was given because of transgressions to reveal what sin is and without it we wouldn't even know what sin is, (Roman 7:7), so when Jesus was telling people to repent from their sins for the Kingdom of God was at hand, he was telling them to repent from their disobedience to the Mosaic law, which means that repentance from our disobedience to the Mosaic law and turning back to obedience is a central part of the Gospel message.

But the context says,

“But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.” (Romans 7:6).

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” (Romans 8:2).


...
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‭

 

[Victor E.]

Justification by Faith — Out of Date?
Benjamin B. Warfield

Sometimes we are told that Justification by Faith is "out of date." That would be a pity, if it were true. What it would mean would be that the way of salvation was closed and "no thoroughfare" nailed up over the barriers. There is no justification for sinful men except by faith. The works of a sinful man will, of course, be as sinful as he is, and nothing but condemnation can be built on them. Where can he get works upon which he can found his hope of justification, except from Another? His hope of Justification, remember — that is, of being pronounced righteous by God. Can God pronounce him righteous except on the ground of works that are righteous? Where can a sinful man get works that are righteous? Surely, not from himself; for, is he not a sinner, and all his works as sinful as he is? He must go out of himself, then, to find works which he can offer to God as righteous. And where will he find such works except in Christ? Or how will he make them his own except by faith in Christ?

Justification by Faith, we see, is not to be set in contradiction to justification by Works. It is set in contradiction only to justification by our Own Works. It is justification by Christ's Works. The whole question, accordingly, is whether we can hope to be received into God's favor on the ground of what we do ourselves, or only on the ground of what Christ does for us. If we expect to be received on the ground of what we do ourselves — that is what is called Justification by Works. If on the ground of what Christ has done for us — that is what is meant by Justification by Faith. Justification by Faith means, that is to say, that we look to Christ and to him alone for salvation, and come to God pleading Christ's death and righteousness as the ground of our hope to be received into his favor. If Justification by Faith is out of date, that means, then, that salvation by Christ is out of date. There is nothing, in that case, left to us but that each man must just do the best he can to save himself.

Justification by Faith does not mean, then, salvation by believing things instead of doing right. It means pleading the merits of Christ before the throne of grace instead of our own merits. It may be doing right to believe things, and doing right is certainly right. The trouble with pleading our own merits before God is not that merits of our own would not be acceptable to God. The trouble is that we haven't any merits of our own to plead before God. Adam, before his fall, had merits of his own, and because he had merits of his own he was, in his own person, acceptable to God. He didn't need Another to stand between him and God, whose merits he could plead. And, therefore, there was no talk of his being Justified by Faith. But we are not like Adam before the fall; we are sinners and have no merits of our own. If we are to be justified at all, it must be on the ground of the merits of Another, whose merits can be made ours by faith. And that is the reason why God sent His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have everlasting life. If we do not believe in him, obviously we must perish. But if we believe in him, we shall not perish but have everlasting life. That is Justification by Faith. Justification by Faith is nothing other than obtaining everlasting life by believing in Christ. If Justification by Faith is out of date, then is salvation through Christ out of date. And as there is none other name under heaven, given among men, wherein we must be saved, if salvation through Christ is out of date then is salvation itself out of date. Surely, in a world of sinful men, needing salvation, this would be a great pity.
​

We can explain God's Word in ways that others can understand, but we cannot alter the Truth of what has been said. God's Sovereignty and dominion does not change and requires no explanation. There is nothing done, that is done outside of His will. The will that ALL may come to know life through faith in Christ Jesus. There are some who may blame God for what has happened, what is happening, or what will happen.

They deliberately ignore the fact that these terrible things have happened due to their own rejection of the life that He promised to us, if we follow Christ. This blaming God is not repentance, it is a hardening of the heart and we know what happened to King Pharoah after hardening his heart. He received the angel of death over his kingdom. Who is this angel of death? (Satan, Exodus 12:23) (Ephesians 2:2). See Ananias and Saphira: A man and wife act as one person, they were joined as one flesh (Acts 5:1-11) (Mark 10:1-12). They sowed to the flesh and reaped destruction from the flesh (Galatians 6:7-9).

Everything that is not life, is death (John 8:44) (John 16:12-15). This is the truth. That God is a righteous judge (Luke 18:1-8. He shows no partiality/favoritism in His decisions (unlike people). There are many sandcastles that will be knocked down eventually. Sooner is better than later. How can a person choose death and then complain about not receiving life? The days are evil (Ephesians 5:15-20).

This is not condemnation, this is the Truth of salvation. Do not get the two confused. We are saved by faith. But this is why faith without works is dead faith (James 2:14-26, John 14:6).

Mercy triumphs over judgment but they are not mutually exclusive. What I mean is, we *can* show mercy with judgment/tempering of fear (Jude 1:22-23). We all have different ministries according to the faith God has given us (Romans 12:3, James 3:1). Love was defined in all of its parts (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).

It is good to discern love from all of them. If you have God's Spirit, you know He can speak through you, and it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father (Matthew 10:16-20). The Spirit of truth (John 16:13).

The issue lies in the Churches that have forsaken the process of sanctification through love in action and are wholly reliant on the righteousness of Christ alone, leading to an unfruitful tree, bearing no/bad fruit. This is not Ok. It is not good to allow the patterns of the world, to corrupt the Body of Christ.

This is the lukewarm Christian/Church in Revelation 3:14-22. This is not to say that Satan and his forces do not attack us. We remain reliant on God's strength in Christ, always.

Justification imputes the righteousness of God to man through Faith in Christ's sacrifice. Sanctification is the activity of the righteousness of God through or bodies and mind. We are dead to sin through righteousness but we are made alive through the liberation from the POWER of sin, through sanctification.

 

[ladodgers6]

Are you asking why not everyone had eternal life, or are you asking about physical death? People died physically because humans are by nature mortal. If you believe that Gen 3 is literal history, that's a result of the fall. It's not a result of imputation of Adam's sin, though, it's because we inherit a nature from him that was corrupted as a consequence of the fall. I think this is Calvin's view.

Please explain a corrupted nature?

 

[ladodgers6]

Maybe we travel in different circles, but I have never seen anyone claim that justification by faith is out of date and that we need to now earn our justification through our own effort. According to Romans 4:1-8, Abraham and David were justified by faith, so the one and only way to become justified is by faith, which means that Moses was justified by faith apart from the law before it was given to him, so the law was never given nor needed for the purpose of providing the means of becoming justified through our own effort. Paul spent a lot of time hammering home the point that obeying the law was never about trying to become justified and that we are justified by faith apart from the law, yet many today still think that obeying the law is about trying to become justified, only they have compounded their error by concluding that therefore we don't need to obey the law, whereas Paul concluded that our faith does not abolish the law, but rather our faith upholds the law (Romans 3:27-31). In Deuteronomy 6:24 and Deuteronomy 10:13, God said that what He commanded was for our own good, so faith has upheld the law since the moment it was given to Moses because obedience to the law has always been about demonstrating that we trust God about how to rightly live, for the righteous shall live by faith (Habakkuk 2:4). Obeying the law is also about demonstrating our love for God (John 14:15) and thereby growing in a relationship with Him based on faith and love. We should not obey the law in order to become justified, but because we have been justified by faith. God's righteousness was not imputed to us so that we would do nothing with it, but rather it was imputed to us so that we would be free to do what God has revealed to be righteous so that we might meet the righteous requirement of the law (Romans 8:3-4). To rephrase Ephesians 2:8-10, we have been declared righteous by grace through faith, not be doing what is righteous, but for the purpose of doing what God has revealed to be righteous by grace through faith. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what God has revealed to be godly, righteous, and good and being trained to renounce doing what God has revealed to be ungodly and sinful, which is essentially what His law was given to reveal to us how to do (Romans 7:12, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

So that I understand what you are. Are you suggesting that our inner transformation is the basis or ground of our Justification?

 

[ladodgers6]

Justification imputes the righteousness of God to man through Faith in Christ's sacrifice. Sanctification is the activity of the righteousness of God through or bodies and mind. We are dead to sin through righteousness but we are made alive through the liberation from the POWER of sin, through sanctification.

The Reformed distinguishes between Justification & Sanctification. They are distinct but not separated. Meaning sanctification follows our Justification In Christ Alone! The question is how is a sinner/ungodly justified before a Holy God. In Romans 4:5, it states that God justifies the 'UNGODLY', not the godly/righteous!

So please read and explain Romans 4 for me.

 

[ladodgers6]

Abraham had his faith credited to him as righteousness, but could Abraham stand “Justified” before God?

Were there not righteous people prior to Christ going to the cross?

Acts 13: 39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

There is nothing about obtaining God’s righteousness to obtain justification, but there is faith (believing) and forgiveness.

Faith is our part and faith is not a work.

Faith is not a work, but it is a gift from God. But Faith is NOT WHAT SAVES US. Faith receives what saves us; namely Christ Jesus and His finished works! Its the object of our Faith that saves. Not Faith itself!

 

[Victor E.]

The Reformed distinguishes between Justification & Sanctification. They are distinct but not separated. Meaning sanctification follows our Justification In Christ Alone! The question is how is a sinner/ungodly justified before a Holy God. In Romans 4:5, it states that God justifies the 'UNGODLY', not the godly/righteous!

So please read and explain Romans 4 for me.

I think you misunderstood me, It is not an issue of whether or not we are going to heaven or hell. Through faith we are saved, not by works. I did not mean to cause alarm. I will say this: Using faith as a buttress to habitually wallow in all kinds of wickedness is dead faith and incredibly unstable for life in this world, and the next.

"So we should be finished with the beginning lessons about Christ. We should not have to keep going back to where we started. We began our new life by turning away from the evil we did in the past and by believing in God. That’s when we were taught about baptisms, laying hands on people, the resurrection of those who have died, and the final judgment. Now we need to go forward to more mature teaching. And that’s what we will do if God allows.

After people have left the way of Christ, can you make them change their lives again? I am talking about people who once learned the truth, received God’s gift, and shared in the Holy Spirit. They were blessed to hear God’s good message and see the great power of his new world. But then they left it all behind, and it is not possible to make them change again. That’s because those who leave Christ are nailing him to the cross again, shaming him before everyone.

Some people are like land that gets plenty of rain and produces a good crop for those who farm it. That kind of land has God’s blessing. But other people are like land that grows only thorns and weeds. It is worthless and in danger of being cursed by God. It will be destroyed by fire.

Dear friends, I am not saying this because I think it is happening to you. We really expect that you will do better—that you will do the good things that will result in your salvation. God is fair, and he will remember all the work you have done. He will remember that you showed your love to him by helping his people and that you continue to help them. We want each of you to be willing and eager to show your love like that the rest of your life. Then you will be sure to get what you hope for. We don’t want you to be lazy. We want you to be like those who, because of their faith and patience, will get what God has promised." Hebrews 6:1-12

 

[ladodgers6]

According to John 8:56, Abraham saw Messiah's day and was glad, so people before the cross looked forward in faith in the promise of a redeemer just as we look backward in faith.

And also in Genesis 3:15 (Proto-Evangelium/first time the Gospel was preached-By God) to Adam & Eve, that He will send a Promise Seed to rescue His People!

 

[ladodgers6]

Abraham had his faith credited to him as righteousness, but could Abraham stand “Justified” before God?

Were there not righteous people prior to Christ going to the cross?

Acts 13: 39 Through him everyone who believes is set free from every sin, a justification you were not able to obtain under the law of Moses.

There is nothing about obtaining God’s righteousness to obtain justification, but there is faith (believing) and forgiveness.

Faith is our part and faith is not a work.

And also in Genesis 3:15 (Proto-Evangelium/first time the Gospel was preached-By God) to Adam & Eve, that He will send a Promise Seed to rescue His People!

 

[hedrick]

Please explain a corrupted nature?

This is a Reformed concept, though I think it’s based on Augustine. The idea is that humans were created with the ability to not sin. However as a result of the Fall, human nature changed. We are now not capable of being sinless. It’s not that we’re guilty of Adam’s sin, but that as a result of Adam’s sin we’re guilty ourselves.

Is having a fallen nature something we can be considered guilty of? You might at first glance think not. In fact Calvin does distinguish between an infant who hasn’t done anything wrong but has a fallen nature, and someone who has done things wrong. However by its very nature, heaven can’t include sinners. Someone who has a nature that will inevitably lead to sin is not going to be acceptable there even if they haven’t committed their first sin yet. It’s just a matter of time …

FYI: Calvin does believe that infants are saved. It’s not that they’re perfect: they are fallen, and so would be guilty. However God makes special provisions to forgive them all. But once someone is old enough to be morally responsible, if they haven’t repented and have faith, they are condemned. Not just because of specific sins, but because they are by nature sinners. By not holding infants responsible, people are given a pass until they’re old enough to repent (though Calvin himself doesn’t quite say that).

How much of this did Paul believe? He does say that sin entered human life with Adam as salvation entered with Christ. So at the very least Paul does’t think it’s just chance that all humans happen to have sinned. It’s inherent in the human race post-Adam. He sees himself as split down the middle, wanting not to sin but doing it anyway. Presumably those without faith are in even worse shape. So I think there are signs that Paul sees the kind of inherent compulsion to sin that is described by having a fallen nature, and he does seem to see it as a fault of the whole human race, going back to Adam.

I think this makes a lot more Biblical sense than saying that we’re considered guilty of Adam’s sin itself. I don’t see that in Paul nor anywhere else.