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Justification by Faith-Out Of Date

Do you believe in the imputation of Christ's Righteousness?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 83.3%
  • No

    Votes: 4 16.7%

  • Total voters
    24

Citizen of the Kingdom

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Here's a simple way of looking at imputation

The first great act of imputation is that of Adam's sin being imputed to the whole human race. Romans 5:12 When the sins of the race were imputed to God's Son we were given a clean slate. Isaiah 53:5-6 The OT transfer of accounts= the scapegoat who bore away all the sins of the people. The righteousness of God is imputed to us NT
2 Corinthians 5:21
For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

He traded Barrabas' cross and ours yet we both went free.

CREDIT
The righteousness of Christ imputed to sinners
Gives us the right to come into the presence of God

Romans 1:16-17
The Just Live by Faith

So...
step #1= Adam's sin reckoned to the race
step #2= God reckoned over the sin of Adam's race to Christ
step #3= God reckoned righteousness of God to sinners
(this was an act of free grace)

Philippians 3:8-9

VIEWING THE DIVINE TRANSACTION

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Hebrews 9:14
how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God;and righteousness and sanctification and redemption

(All that is in Jesus is set down to our account)

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

(Thru faith, His Righteousness is given to us. God accepted the payment)
 
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~Anastasia~

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So just curious, if you consider Adam's sin to be "imputed to" the whole human race, would you say babies are born guilty?

 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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So just curious, if you consider Adam's sin to be "imputed to" the whole human race, would you say babies are born guilty?
Wouldn't you? I guess if they weren't they could go thru life never sinning by keeping to the law as Paul did.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Wouldn't you? I guess if they weren't they could go thru life never sinning by keeping to the law as Paul did.
Not looking to argue. I was just curious. And I don't see how not being born guilty relates to keeping the law after that.

No, I don't consider babies born guilty. I don't believe God holds anyone guilty for the sin of another.

But it is a sin-infected world, and we are born with a nature bent towards sin, so sooner or later (generally as soon as we are old enough to make a choice) we all sin, so if the baby lives that long, it will become guilty of its own sins, as all of us have done.

But I was just curious of your pov. You don't have to answer, of course.

Peace to you.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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It's of topic so I won't
 
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~Anastasia~

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You are arguing. (and it's OK)

Argue: To present reasons for or against a thing.
He argued in favor of capital punishment.
As you wish, lol.

My point was that I was only curious about a way of looking at things. I offered my point of view in this case hoping to lay all the cards on the table, as it were, as a means of demonstrating I was willing to do so. Doesn't matter.

But my point in saying that was that I have no intention of offering points against anyone's position in any attempt to change their beliefs.

 
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jimmyjimmy

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Understood.
 
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John Hyperspace

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I like to think of Jesus Christ as the one I casually step behind, while whistling a nonchalant tune, as the eyes of God begin to look in my direction.
 
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ladodgers6

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I like to think of Jesus Christ as the one I casually step behind, while whistling a nonchalant tune, as the eyes of God begin to look in my direction.
I'm not a smart guy, can you explain this for me?
 
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ladodgers6

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Impute is an accounting or legal term. It means that something is credited that isn’t actually there.

Paul says that faith is imputed as righteousness. I think what he actually meant is that God accepts our faith as righteousness, i.e. that faith puts us right with him.

The exegesis is complex, partly because the key terms have a range of meanings. First righteousness. Someone who is righteous is living as God wants, but that person is also in good standing with God. Righteousness is never seen as moral perfection. The righteous person is certainly committed to living a godly life, but they are often far from perfect. They do, however repent when they fail. At any rate, although righteousness can refer to living as God wants, in the context of Paul’s argument it probably refers to being in good standing with God.

(The reason I pick that meaning is that Paul is dealing with the question of whether circumcision defines people as part of the people of God. He argues that it’s faith, not circumcision. So the issue in this particular argument is really good standing as a member of God’s people more than the quality of life, though they clearly go together.

Next we have an issue as to whether circumcision or faith makes you a member of God’s people or is a sign of being a member of God’s people. The two are very close together. I think at times Paul says that justification is a sign of being in good standing with God but at other times says that it puts one right with God. I wonder whether Paul even distinguished the two meanings. However theologians have argued loudly, with N T Wright maintaining that faith is a badge of being one of God’s people. I.e. when Paul says faith is imputed as righteousness he means that faith is the sign of being one of God’s people.

At any rate, it seems clear to me that what Paul is actually saying is that it is faith, not circumcision that defines one / makes one a member of God’s people. I.e. that faith is accepted by God (imputed as) being in the right status (righteous).

Now, in the 16th Cent righteousness seems to have been understood (I think by both sides) as referring to moral perfection. It seems to have been obvious to everyone that God demands moral perfection, since models of the atonement (again, I think on both sides) depended upon Christ being righteous when we can’t be.

Protestants read Paul correctly as saying that being in right standing with God was based on faith. They observed the use of the “imputed” term. Since only a perfect person can stand before God, and Christ was a perfect sacrifice for us, they understood that when faith is imputed as righteousness, what’s really going on is that Christ’s perfection (righteousness) is imputed as ours. It’s a reasonable gloss given the assumptions. But Paul never actually says that Christ’s righteousness is imputed as ours. What he actually says is that our faith is imputed as righteousness.[/QUOTE]

How is our Faith imputed as righteousness, if it is not the Righteousness of Christ?
 
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JacksBratt

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Nothing truly biblical can be "out of Date". God is the same now, before and forever. He never changes, nor do the implications of the gospel and the salvation it brings.

There is no expiry date on this.

The only thing that would deem "justification by faith" as "out of date" would be something that would remove the need for faith... like your death. After you die, you will see Christ face to face. You won't need faith as you will be an eye witness and it will be too late anyway.

The other time will be the end of the period of Grace. This period we now live in. The time from Christs death and resurrection until the tribulation period.

This is the time where we can only believe by faith. After the second coming, we will know by fact, by seeing, by knowledge first hand.

So, no, it is not out of date and cannot become "out of date" until a change of Biblical proportions. Like the coming of our savior. Then, it's too late for faith.
 
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hedrick

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How is our Faith imputed as righteousness, if it is not the Righteousness of Christ?
It's the same thing as justification by faith: God accepts our faith as righteousness. It's faith, not circumcision, that makes us his people. Why? After saying that faith is counted as righteousness in Rom 4:22, Paul goes on to explain that it is faith in Christ who died and was raised for us. This is explained further in Rom 6. Through faith, in baptism, we die with him and are raised with him.

Through Christ we experience new life. I agree that this is in some sense alien righteousness. In the sense that it's not something we earn on our own. We experience it only through our identification with Christ in faith. But Paul doesn't speak of it as imputing Christ's righteousness, because for Paul it's not a legal fiction. It's something real in our lives, though always dependent upon Christ. We ourselves are righteous, i.e. acceptable to God, through faith in Christ.

It's also worth noting the Rom 5:12 doesn't really say that Adam's sin is imputed to us either. It says that Adam brought sin into the human experience, but we all do it. "death spread to all because all have sinned."

Calvin understood that the Fall corrupted our nature, although Paul doesn't actually say that. But even under that traditional understanding, it is our own corrupted nature that makes us sinful. We aren't guilty, either really or by imputation, of Adam's actual sin. We just experience its consequences. (In fact Calvin denies that we are guilty of Adam's actual sin.) Paul's point in that passage is that just as Adam brought sin into human life, Jesus brought redemption. As Adam's sin truly made us sinful, Christ's death and resurrection truly make us righteous. Not morally perfect, but rather acceptable to God.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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I don't want to get into a discussion of depravity because of mentioning imputation thru the first Adam resulting in amputation from God but it's not just in Romans. We are born with a sin-nature acquired from the fall. All need a savior because of it. And there's no other way to remove the sin-nature w/o aquiring a new nature, God's nature imputed to us in a renewed heart.

Ephesians 2:3b
... Like the rest, we were by nature children deserving of wrath.
1 Corinthians 15:21-22
For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive​

As it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one.

Of course we are not guilty of Adam's actual sin. Unless we also ate an apple we were told not to.
 
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bling

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OK, but it is really not proving: “The sinner is credited with the Righteousness of Christ in the Gospel's promise”.

It does bring up some wonderful information though:

“Works” (things you do to earn or deserve a wage) is contrasted with “Faith” (stuff you that would not earn you a wage or is deserving of anything). Trusting in God is not “work”, but it is something you can do and it would be credited as righteousness. If you think about it, trusting in God’s help would be the opposite of self-reliance (doing it by your own power), so that would be “worthy” of nothing and really a humbling activity since the lowliest mature adult on earth can do the same thing.

This passage does not suggest Abraham was imputed with Christ’s righteousness, but Abraham’s internal faith was the result of his righteousness, the same as our faith in Christ can result in a righteousness in us, but it does not say it is Christ’s righteousness being imputed to us. .
 
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