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I don’t get that impression when I read the Bible. God seems to appear to hold us more accountable if we want to be in His Kingdom vs. Him forcing us to be there. It’s why Jesus said narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that find it. If what you say is correct, then everyone would be in God’s Kingdom.Yes but God was/is involved in a battle far greater than ours.
John 6:37-40 says,Amen, and to you and yours as well, in Christ Alone by Grace Alone!
Surely Sir, I'm your Huckleberry!
So then, you do not hold a view of, Plan of Redemption. This is correct? I will address your post in sections because there's too much to unpack, is this okay?Very powerful and wonderful good news for God's elect people! I want to focus specifically on the last few passages here. And this is the will of him who sen me, THAT I SHOULD LOSE NOTHING OF ALL THAT HE HAS GIVEN ME! This is the Promise and Will of God. Promised to Adam & Eve, Abraham, David. This is the Covenant of Redemption! God giving his word, that he will save his people form their sins! And have eternal life, and nobody will be able to snatch them out of his hand or his Father's hand!
Now, to address your comments. Only past sins are forgiven us, not future sins??? This is conjecture Highlighter because Christ's death and bloody cross washes all of our sins away, past, present and future. He is the Paschal Lamb where all of our sins lay. He purchased God's people with his blood! He came to fulfill His Father's Promise to save his people from their sins!
Matthew 1:21 She will give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.” All of them!
Do you honestly believe that believers will lose their salvation if they forget or don't confess every single sin committed on a daily basis? I wish you luck with that, which is impossible! Trying to crucify Christ over and over is contradictory to Scripture. It's Christ who has secured the Redemption of God's elect on that Cross that day. The Good News of the Gospel is not a to do list on what one must do to be saved! It's an announcement of what God did in Christ for his people! Christ came to fulfill his Father's will, and what is his Father's will?
35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
This is why I become a convinced Classical Calvinist, and recanted on Arminianism, because Arminianism first of all, don't hold to Justification by Faith Alone; Imputation of Christ's righteousness. Which is the crux of the Gospel and upon where the Church stands or falls. And God's Promise, his word, his Oath, his Covenant of saving his people is fulfilled in Christ. As Christ's last word on the Cross, "It is Finished"! Christ left nothing undone, he finished it all for God's people whom he gave to the Son to redeem! This is where I can find joy, love, assurance, refuge, gratitude, and peace of conscience!
So, obviously I disagree with you premise in your comments above. But I'll finish with this, an excerpt from one of my favorite theologians.
"Liberalism is always in the imperative mood; where as Christianity is always in the triumphant indicative. Liberalism always appeals to the human will. Christianity announces first, a gracious act of God. What we need is not exhortation (directions or a list to save myself; works), but a Gospel! Knowledge of the facts on how God has saved me. Have you any good news? I know your exhortation will not help me, but if anything has been done to save me, will you not tell me the facts?"
---J. Gresham Machen
Assuming the prophesy given in unclearly-spoken prophetic riddles (Nu 12:18) in Revelation is literal. . .Good luck with refuting a literal 1000 years
OSAS makes sense if you understand it, but it is a false doctrine.Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?
How does that differ from the saved (born-again) always persevere?OSAS makes sense if you understand it, but it is a false doctrine.
Perseverance of the saints is a correct biblical doctrine.
How do you see them as different?OSAS makes sense if you understand it, but it is a false doctrine.
Perseverance of the saints is a correct biblical doctrine.
It would be better and more complete if you looked into these things.How does that differ from the saved (born-again) always persevere?
That’s not true. While there are Hyper Grace OSAS folk, there are Non-Calvinist OSAS who believe you must live holy for OSAS to be true. Granted, they are just like most Calvinists who also preach that 1 John 1:8 is a banner flag that they must commit inintentional sins over the rest of their life on some level. But they never say what these sins are and how often they do them. So I see the holy living (Lordship Salvation teaching) in Calvinism as a Trojan horse. They also teach like John Piper that he still does his sins, and yet they are not on him because they have been taken away (Which is a license to sin). I have a video of Piper saying this if you are interested in seeing it.It would be better and more complete if you looked into these things.
OSAS suggests and is taught at times that a Christian can sin and that’s ok as it will not affect your salvation. No matter how you live you will be okay as far as salvation goes.
Sure it is.That’s not true.
Did I say there wasn’t? No.While there are Hyper Grace OSAS folk, there are Non-Calvinist OSAS who believe you must live holy for OSAS to be true.
I wonder if you know what you’re talking about? You fairly new?Granted, they are just like most Calvinists who also preach that 1 John 1:8 is a banner flag that they must commit inintentional sins over the rest of their life on some level. But they never say what these sins are and how often they do them. So I see the holy living (Lordship Salvation teaching) in Calvinism as a Trojan horse. They also teach like John Piper that he still does his sins, and yet they are not on him because they have been taken away (Which is a license to sin).
Make up your mind. Seems you just want to be right.OSAS or POTS is a license to sin on some level because I never had any of them tell me that certain sins can destroy your soul if you abide in them. They all teach you can abide in some level of sin and be saved, and they use 1 John 1:8 as their excuse.
Bible Highlighter said:That’s not true.
Foghorn said:Sure it is.
Bible Highlighter said:While there are Hyper Grace OSAS folk, there are Non-Calvinist OSAS who believe you must live holy for OSAS to be true.
But you basically said to Claire that holiness was the difference in #628 (Which I already guessed that is what you were thinking because this is not my first rodeo in these kinds of discussions).Did I say there wasn’t? No.
I am well versed on the false beliefs of Calvinism. I have read many of their articles on their five points.I wonder if you know what you’re talking about?
Nope. 40,300 some posts on this forum, and that does not include the other Christian forums I have posted at.You fairly new?
Bible Highlighter said:OSAS or POTS is a license to sin on some level because I never had any of them tell me that certain sins can destroy your soul if you abide in them. They all teach you can abide in some level of sin and be saved, and they use 1 John 1:8 as their excuse.
This statement does not really address what I said. It seems like you are dodging the truth here, and you just want to be right.Make up your mind. Seems you just want to be right.
Is that so?
Thanks for your opinions.Just giving a quick quib answer with no real substance does not help to explain what you are talking about. Just holding all the cards does not mean you are right. Please explain how you believe OSAS is different than POTS. If you don’t explain it then it defeats the purpose of having any discussion on this matter to begin with.
But you basically said to Claire that holiness was the difference in #628 (Which I already guessed that is what you were thinking because this is not my first rodeo in these kinds of discussions).
I am well versed on the false beliefs of Calvinism. I have read many of their articles on their five points.
I also have discussed with Calvinists on these issues since 2010.
Nope. 40,300 some posts on this forum, and that does not include the other Christian forums I have posted at.
By the way, are you in any way related to JimmyJimmy?
He also is a Calvinist who had a LooneyTunes avatar.
See this thread here:
What is Free Will?
This statement does not really address what I said. It seems like you are dodging the truth here, and you just want to be right.
Is that so?
DittoHow do you see them as different?
Some OSAS folk believe you have to live holy on some level for OSAS to be true.
Other OSAS folk are Hyper Grace and they believe you can live like the devil, and still be saved.
But those OSAS folk who claim they are for holy living do not agree with the Bible’s teaching that you have to confess and forsake sins to have mercy and that sin can destroy our souls. Jesus said one is in danger of hellfire by looking upon a woman in lust. Paul says if we provide not for our own, we have denied the faith and are worse than infidel (unbeliever). But many in the OSAS or POTS camps don’t believe these words by our Lord and the apostle Paul in Scripture. This is not surprising because we are living in the last days. Jesus said, “…when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8). The falling away has already happened. Most just tend to follow the crowd and they don’t study the Bible with the help of the Spirit alone for themselves.
I quote Scripture to many and they just don’t believe what those verses plainly say.
But you made claims without really explaining them to me.Thanks for your opinions.
Yes he does very well as with most doctrines understanding both sides of the argument.It would be better and more complete if you looked into these things.
OSAS suggests and is taught at times that a Christian can sin and that’s ok as it will not affect your salvation. No matter how you live you will be okay as far as salvation goes.
Do you understand perseverance of the saints?
Yes claiming something is true is much different than proving something is true .But you made claims without really explaining them to me.
Care to back up your claims with some kind of substance?
You believe as you like.But you made claims without really explaining them to me.
Care to back up your claims with some kind of substance?
Thank you for telling me to search online. There does appear to be one small minor difference between POTS and OSAS but it is not enough to change the core heart of each of these beliefs in what they are teaching (Which is in the fact that they are both teaching you are eternally secure and sin ultimately does not separate you from God).You believe as you like.
I don’t have time now. You’ll have to wait until later.
Or, search online there is a lot of good info out there if you don’t have the resources.
Indeed (you're preaching to the choir) . .and I really like your distinction, it's the perfect Biblical response.It would be better and more complete if you looked into these things.
OSAS suggests and is taught at times that a Christian can sin and that’s ok as it will not affect your salvation. No matter how you live you will be okay as far as salvation goes.
Do you understand perseverance of the saints?
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