"Justice" in the history of Anabaptism

[MrJim]

That is something I don't understand in this country, health care is a luxery and the homeless are viewed with disdain.

Actually there are some people who state the homeless "want" to be there...

Nothing new really..."luxury" is defined in relative terms. Many would call it a necessity, yet compared with eating and having a roof it is a luxury...so go back in time to any other wealthy empire and you'll find the rich referring to necessities and the poor calling them luxuries...

 

[Danfrey]

I believe some homeless people are there because of choices they have made, but I have yet to meet a homeless person who prefers to be homeless.

 

[~InHisHands~]

~Sticks a toe in~
There are some people who refuse to work and would rather be homeless than try to hold down a job. But, there are those who are homeless due to circumstance. The ones that are homeless due to circumstance right here in our own country can't get the help they need cuz we're too busy worrying about other countries to take care of our own. ~Pulls toe back in before someone whacks it off~

 

[catlover]

~Sticks a toe in~
There are some people who refuse to work and would rather be homeless than try to hold down a job. ]

More than likely, that individual is suffering from mental illness or has an addiction sickness. Perhaps if health care wasn't a luxury in this country those people wouldn't appear to "want" to be there. Seeing that the majority of homeless, at one point in time, were Vietnam Veteran's it's a crying shame. The country used them and let them "want" to be homeless.

][/QUOTE]But, there are those who are homeless due to circumstance. The ones that are homeless due to circumstance right here in our own country can't get the help they need cuz we're too busy worrying about other countries to take care of our own. ~Pulls toe back in before someone whacks it off~[/QUOTE]


True.Can't disagree with that.

 

[Danfrey]

With the cost of housing, there are very few ways to get from homeless to housed in today's economy. To get into a cheap apartment in our area costs $800 per month plus another $800 security deposit. That is $1600 for a person to come up with that is living on the street. If they try to get into a subsidized apartment they can count on having to come up with $400 a month for rent and another $400 for deposit.

Another difficulty is that it is next impossible to get a job without a phone and address. The post office won't give you a po box unless you can prove a physical address. Thankfully you can get a prepaid cell phone to deal with the phone number issue.

The first time Candice and I moved to Delaware, we spent 3 weeks living out of our car with me working full time. It took a gift from a friend and an available subsidized apartment to get us housed.

As the cost of housing rises without an equal rise in wages this becomes even more of a problem.

 

[catlover]

Nothing new really..."luxury" is defined in relative terms. Many would call it a necessity, yet compared with eating and having a roof it is a luxury...so go back in time to any other wealthy empire and you'll find the rich referring to necessities and the poor calling them luxuries...

The problem is, if someone has blood pressure, heart disease, diabetis, or an illness which requires medical care in order to keep that person alive, it's a necessity.

 

[MrJim]

And what is the answer? One thing could be a return to communal communities with in the church. Maybe churches using money to help build community instead of edifices to God....?

 

[Danfrey]

Oh yes, the medical system in this country is a shining example of what capitalism has to share with unenlightened countries. At least we don't have to worry about those pesky poor people living any longer than they have to.

 

[Danfrey]

I think a big step would be to start teaching equality in the churches. We need to develop a culture in the church that is ashamed to see someone go without necessities. The money that goes in the offering plate should be first and foremost for feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and housing the homeless.

 

[catlover]

I think a big step would be to start teaching equality in the churches. We need to develop a culture in the church that is ashamed to see someone go without necessities. The money that goes in the offering plate should be first and foremost for feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and housing the homeless.

I can't disagree with that statement. That is why, amoung other reasons, simple living etc. I am fascinated with Anabaptists!!

 

[CelticRose]

Mental illness is a big contributer to homelessness in my country - and people are terrified of the mentally ill, usually with no good reason. Our Govt., closed many of the hospices, 1/2 way houses, assisted living residences and those without family prepared to take them in became part of the homeless population no-one wants to see or acknowledge. Ignorance is a terrible thing and poverty of the spirit is worse than physical poverty.

 

[catlover]

Mental illness is a big contributer to homelessness in my country - and people are terrified of the mentally ill, usually with no good reason. Our Govt., closed many of the hospices, 1/2 way houses, assisted living residences and those without family prepared to take them in became part of the homeless population no-one wants to see or acknowledge. Ignorance is a terrible thing and poverty of the spirit is worse than physical poverty.

Sounds like, here.... What they have done, here,the jails are the new "mental health" facilities....

 

[~InHisHands~]

More than likely, that individual is suffering from mental illness or has an addiction sickness. Perhaps if health care wasn't a luxury in this country those people wouldn't appear to "want" to be there. Seeing that the majority of homeless, at one point in time, were Vietnam Veteran's it's a crying shame. The country used them and let them "want" to be homeless.

]

But, there are those who are homeless due to circumstance. The ones that are homeless due to circumstance right here in our own country can't get the help they need cuz we're too busy worrying about other countries to take care of our own. ~Pulls toe back in before someone whacks it off~[/i][/quote]


True.Can't disagree with that.[/quote]
I wasn't exactly talking about vets. I was referring to individuals like my aunt. She would have preferred her drugs over having a decent life. Even if that meant living on the street. And all the medical insurance in the world would not have done a thing for her. It was her choice to remain this way. Her own family could have given her money for housing but she would've blown it on drugs. Do you see now what I'm saying? I'm not talking about accusing anyone of wanting to be there that doesn't. I'm referring to helping those that genuinely need the help. We speak of justice but, when is it just to overlook our own in the US to help those in other countries? Why should any of them have to be without housing or food? Why do people have to be forced to hang on to every penny they have so that they don't end up on the streets with the others? And just out of curiosity...does anyone actually know where that money goes that we give to churches and other organizations? I have no clue what that money is being used for once it hits those offering baskets at church.

 

[~InHisHands~]

Once anyone isn't stable enough to physically or mentally take care of themselves...it is pretty much over. They get little if any help and end up on assistance programs. Some that are physically disabled are sometimes lucky enough to find work that can be done from home or very patient employers. But, the mentally ill are pretty much twisting in the wind.

 

[catlover]

I wasn't exactly talking about vets. I was referring to individuals like my aunt. She would have preferred her drugs over having a decent life. Even if that meant living on the street. And all the medical insurance in the world would not have done a thing for her. It was her choice to remain this way. Her own family could have given her money for housing but she would've blown it on drugs. Do you see now what I'm saying? I'm not talking about accusing anyone of wanting to be there that doesn't.]

Many folks will disagree with me on this, but i believe drug addiction is a form of disease.

[ I'm referring to helping those that genuinely need the help. We speak of justice but, when is it just to overlook our own in the US to help those in other countries? Why should any of them have to be without housing or food? Why do people have to be forced to hang on to every penny they have so that they don't end up on the streets with the others? .]

Good point. My children and I were going to participate in "Operation Christmas" http://www.samaritanspurse.org/OCC.asp?MPGID=1
but time ran out...but we will use what was bought for that for the local homeless shelter and battered woman's shelter.
I honestly believe people are in denial about poverty in this country.

[ And just out of curiosity...does anyone actually know where that money goes that we give to churches and other organizations? I have no clue what that money is being used for once it hits those offering baskets at church.

Actually we should ask for an itemization. You bring up a good point.

 

[~InHisHands~]

I agree that drug addiction is a form of disease. Social disease. I'm not sure what else you could classify that as considering they can get help if they want to.
But without a willing party to receive help...they can't give it.

These organizations that we donate to...we really don't know how much is going for what we actually donate for. If everyone in this country participated in the Feed the Children...you would think they would be making headway. Yet we constantly see things on tv about starving children. Sometimes I wonder if this money is being misused or spent on things that are unnecessary. Some of these places waste money on calendars and address labels for the recipients of the advertisements asking for donations. If that person doesn't donate...that is money wasted that could be feeding people and saving lives instead of trying to coax people into giving.

 

[~InHisHands~]

~Pokes Dan & grins on the way out~

 

[MrJim]

Regardless of what we don't know about how charity organizations operate we can't just give up in despair. Research as best ya can and let God do the rest.

But I think Dan is onto something with the equality thing...and I think that can lead back to communal community. What we have now is just a bunch of lone rangers out here, drifting in and out of churches, looking for more but just not sure how to make it work. I'm past the denom thing, I'll latch onto any Christian congregation that is making things work like we have envisioned. Or maybe just crank up something where I'm at....?

 

[CelticRose]

Our church is accountable for every cent given - monthly meetings with financial statements. Don't make much sense to me but it's all there in black & white. Plus the auditor has to come in every year by law so we do know where our money's gone. Most large organisations are accountable in this way and you could always ask for a financial statement from a charity. They would probably be obligated to give you one but I'm not so cluey about US law.

 

[MrJim]

Our church is accountable for every cent given - monthly meetings with financial statements. Don't make much sense to me but it's all there in black & white. Plus the auditor has to come in every year by law so we do know where our money's gone. Most large organisations are accountable in this way and you could always ask for a financial statement from a charity. They would probably be obligated to give you one but I'm not so cluey about US law.

There are all sorts of charity accountability groups on the net that rate these organizations.