just wondering!

[vossler]

If God created the heavens and the earth they why would their testimony to Him differ from the Scriptures then?

The testimony I see shows a God of awesome power and incredible detail that testifies to exactly what is written in Genesis. There is no reason for me to believe otherwise.

It's good that you can know without any doubt that God used evolution to produce man and everything else, yet after looking at the evidence I can't even come close to doing that. Then when I compare what people like you purport to be true and compare it or try to align it with God's Word, all that end's up happening is that it becomes distorted and perverted.

perhaps it is because both need to be interpretated, creation via science and Scripture via hermeneutics, and it is these interpretations that err. If our interpretation of Scripture errs how do we know it and how do we correct it?

God never asks us to interpret his creation, or for that matter study it. However He does tell us that when we look that we should be seeing Him, not a process at work.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

you can know without any doubt that God


i doubt that i know anything "without doubt".
sin is just so pervasive that absolute certainty is beyond my reach. i've never claimed otherwise.

God never asks us to interpret his creation, or for that matter study it.

behold the origin of science

Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought [them] unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that [was] the name thereof.

it is a creation mandate to take care of the creation. naming and what we now call science is a crucial element of humanity's vicegerency under God.

 

[gluadys]

What about???

About my original reference being to the various books of the bible. Not to other books outside the bible.

 

[Mallon]

God never asks us to interpret his creation, or for that matter study it.

He does appear to encourage it, though:

It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

(Edited to correct citation.)

 

[vossler]

He does appear to encourage it, though:

I think you've got your Scripture a bit messed up. Numbers 25:2 states:

These invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods.

Then again maybe this was in reference to evolution?

 

[laptoppop]

Then again maybe this was in reference to evolution?

Boooooooo!

 

[vossler]

Boooooooo!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

[Mallon]

I think you've got your Scripture a bit messed up. Numbers 25:2 states:

These invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods.

Then again maybe this was in reference to evolution?

My mistake. It was Proverbs, not Numbers. I'll correct my post accordingly.

 

[vossler]

Ahh...thanks for the correction.

I believe this is referring to God’s Word and not His creation. The idea is that He conceals truths within His Word through parables, metaphors, allegories, etc., and our job, as Kings, is to seek those Truths out.

 

[Mallon]

Ahh...thanks for the correction.

I believe this is referring to God’s Word and not His creation. The idea is that He conceals truths within His Word through parables, metaphors, allegories, etc., and our job, as Kings, is to seek those Truths out.

Surely this is a lie. Every good Christian knows that the Bible is meant to be taken literally! This is blasphemy! My God wouldn't deceive His people by hiding truths in the Bible.

 

[vossler]

Surely this is a lie. Every good Christian knows that the Bible is meant to be taken literally! This is blasphemy! My God wouldn't deceive His people by hiding truths in the Bible.

The seed has been planted, unfortunately it appears to be corrupted.

Ahh...man's best efforts gone awry once again.

 

[Mallon]

Ahh...man's best efforts gone awry once again.

Surely you know that the efforts of man are in vain, which is why all methodologically natural science fails to positively attest to God's handiwork. I prefer to let my Bible do my thinking for me rather than make futile attempts at ungodly human "effort".

(Sorry, just trying the shoe on the other foot! )

 

[vossler]

Surely you know that the efforts of man are in vain, which is why all methodologically natural science fails to positively attest to God's handiwork. I prefer to let my Bible do my thinking for me rather than make futile attempts at ungodly human "effort".

(Sorry, just trying the shoe on the other foot! )

I would ask you how it's fitting but then again if it isn't laced and the wrong size I should know the answer.

 

[vossler]

gluadys, I'd really like hear your response to this.

I believe gluadys was referring to the various books that comprise Scripture, not to outside commentaries.

Right

What about???

None of which is in the scripture itself.

 

[gluadys]

gluadys, I'd really like hear your response to this.


What about???

See post 223.

 

[Mallon]

I would ask you how it's fitting but then again if it isn't laced and the wrong size I should know the answer.

Is it though? Some of the very things I have spoken have been voiced in this very thread.
I do agree with your original assertion that many of the truths of the Bible are to be pulled from allegory and metaphor, however.

 

[vossler]

I do agree with your original assertion that many of the truths of the Bible are to be pulled from allegory and metaphor, however.

I like it when we agree.

 

[FallingWaters]

English, French, Italian, Spanish, Romanian, Porteuguese, German right? Rest of the European languages are slavic.

When I was in school, I learned that the Romance languages were S-P-R-I-F :
Spanish, Portugese, Romanian, Italian and French.

 

[Mallon]

I like it when we agree.

As do I, vossler. As I've said elsewhere, there is much more that we likely agree on, but this being the forum that it is, it is the topic on which we disagree that gets brought to the forefront.

 

[vossler]

As do I, vossler. As I've said elsewhere, there is much more that we likely agree on, but this being the forum that it is, it is the topic on which we disagree that gets brought to the forefront.

Once again I agree (I know there's at least one more thing we agree on), yes these forums focus primarily on disagreement as it happens to be the nature of the beast. Still, it seems that even when agreement is possible we tend to avoid it because we don't want to be viewed as 'conspiring with the enemy' or something like that. Instead we gravitate and focus on the disagreement, instead of seeking unity we seek the opposite. That's the part that absolutely drives me crazy. We're suppose to be set apart and different than the world, especially to the visitor or unbeliever who is trolling the board. Instead we give them all sorts of ammunition to reinforce their belief that Christians are no different than the world because when it comes right down to it they only interested in themselves.

Others will call us hypocrites because we say that we believe the Bible and what it teaches but when given the opportunity to prove it we state beliefs not centered on Scripture and then justify the approach through our own logic and rationalization. Instead of building our case from Scripture through a hermaneutical and exegetical approach we actually minimize Scripture in all sorts of ways.

The constant argument around here is that's your interpretation and because it doesn't correspond with mine it's wrong. Look, I understand there are many different ways to interpret Scripture and I don't even want to pretend I'm somehow better than anyone else at this work. I do admire those who open my eyes to new Truths, but I hate to admit that rarely happens here in OT. However, there is one thing I do believe I'm gifted at and that is recognizing Truth when I see it, I may not always be good at expressing it myself, but I usually know it when I see it.

In the other Theology subforums I've come across the Truth is being presented much more often. That's probably no surprise given the material they discuss and what we discuss. This doesn't mean that they aren't littered with false beliefs or teachings, just that there is a balancing element to contradict it(they have to deal a lot with using scripture to justify sin, thank goodness that's not an element that raises it's head around here much). The problem as I see it is that most of us are not willing to back up our beliefs or statements through a scriptural exegesis, instead we introduce outside elements (personal beliefs, secular reasoning, proofs or studies etc.) and present them as Truth, which in and of themselves are not supported within Scripture, to justify our position.

In the end all this does is say that we each can have our own legitimate interpretations to suit our worldview or worse, our sin. When we can legitimize sin it waters down the gospel and the Bible into anything we want it to be. I would ask; how is that being an effective witness?

Unfortunately I really don't see this changing anytime soon.