just wondering!

[Everloving]

God is in control of evolution, if God wasn't we would still be in the pond.
Science can only answer the "how" questions not the "why" questions.

Okay, first of all, God made the Earth in 6 days. Could have taken a matter of seconds, but instead, He took 6 days to give us a model to follow.

 

[Everloving]

If you only wanted to hear answers that would agree with you, heatherwayno, then perhaps you should have posted in the creationists only forum.
That said...

I always liked looking at it the other way, as quoted from Ken Miller's book, Finding Darwin's God:

"If you deny evolution, then the sort of God you have in mind is a bit like a pool player who can sink fifteen balls in a row, but only by taking fifteen separate shots. My God plays the game a little differently. He walks up to the table, takes just one shot, and sinks all the balls. I ask you which pool player, which God, is more worthy or praise and worship?"

Very scientific. The God I worship and give MY praise to could have just commanded the balls to go in without taking a single shot, and they would all go in. He controlled everyrhing. Still does. So why use evolution when ou can command things into existence. What's more powerful. Watching a plant grow into a person, or taking the dust of the earth and forming it into a human being. That's the God I worship.

 

[Everloving]

I was thinking today about different races of people. I don't know why but I just started wondering if there was a biblical explaination as to why different races have different characteristics and why there are so many races to begin with. I am glad there is diversity in the world but was just wondering if the bible mentions anything about it and could it have anything to do with the tower of babel??

Color is a gene, just like anything else. The allels (sp) within the genes deside color. Many creationist I have learned from believe that Adam and Eve were darker skinned. Somewhere between black and white. The mixing of these allels mixed with the spreading of people after the Tower of Babel caused the differences in skin. They also determine many characteristic. Evolution in skincolor or anything else is bull. If I get a really bad sunburn or get really tan, as does my husband, will my children be sunburned or tan?? NO!!!! They will be what our genes, passed onto them, tell them to be. Sure, interfamily marraige has caused some mutation in genes, but there is no good mutation I've ever heard of. Only degenerating mutation. So, using this as proof of evolution means that we are degenerating forms a frogs and other such creatures.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

obviously i need to get into the habit of looking at the title of a subforum before i post.

sorry.

moved to the right forum.
again.

fat fingers, slow mind.



wait a minute.
this is the right forummmmmmmm.


He didn't get his creation right the first time

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Why is there no biblical accounts of people living billions of years ago?


my car is currently broken, why didn't God tell me how to repair it in the Bible? why didn't He even mention cars there?
perhaps because it isn't a car repair manual?

Notice that he was fluent in his speaking- he did not grunt-

did he click? click languages are known to be the oldest extant languages.

Think about the message you are sending to others- when you promote this heresy as fact. People are in hell because of placing their faith in science rather than God. Think about it.

But you have already said that the Bible doesn't talk about billions of years, how can belief in them condemn people to hell? you would have thought that something that important would have been discussed in the SCriptures. If evolution is so important that the mere understanding of it as science would override all other beliefs including faith in God, that it would at least get a mention.

It appears to me that the only heresy that God can not forgive is the heresy of not-being-YEC, that the only sin that God will not forgive is understanding an old earth, that the only wrong way to read the Bible is one that leads to OEC or worse. Everything else can be covered and paid for by the blood of Christ except these things.

Looks to me that this is saying that only YECists are true Christians and really really truely saved.

btw.
only a metaphysical naturalist or materialist puts his faith in science, most scientists are methodological materialists and have another metaphysics that they believe in that is not supposedly derived from science. Most scientists are probably like Einstein some form of a mild deist or panentheist.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Very scientific. The God I worship and give MY praise to could have just commanded the balls to go in without taking a single shot, and they would all go in.

But then He wouldn't be playng pool, would He?

God doesn't have to follow any rules, but far more often than not, He chooses to.

He controlled everyrhing. Still does. So why use evolution when ou can command things into existence.

What a man (or a God) can do is not the same as what he (or He) has done.

What's more powerful. Watching a plant grow into a person, or taking the dust of the earth and forming it into a human being. That's the God I worship.

One takes skill, forethought, and patience... the other is a parlor trick for someone omnipotent. Personally, I'm more impressed with the former... no flashy tricks, no need to impress...

 

[Mallon]

However- why should we trust God if he is trying to deceive us into thinking he created the earth in 6 days? Doesn't make sense.

You believe God created the earth with craters on its surface and mountains in place, and stars millions of light years away -- that is to say, a false record of history. You might ask yourself the very same thing!

However- watch discovery or the history channel. THEY ARE ALWAYS COMING OUT WITH NEW INFORMATION THAT "DISPROVES THE BIBLE!" So science is often used to try and disporve the bible- your quote saying otherwise is unfounded.

They also occasionally come out with support FOR the Bible (e.g., watch The Naked Archaeologist). Science is neutral on the issue of our faith.

I am not trying to jusdge God- but would it make more sense for him to wait 4.5 billion years or only 4000 to send a saviour? BC the people were to look towards the cross in anticipation of a saviour coming. After 4.5 billion years and no saviour- I think most everyone would loose faith in the anticipation of one ever coming. 4000 years is a little more reasonable than 4.5 billion years.

For what it's worth, there weren't humans around 4.5 billion years ago, so God would not have promised stromatolites a saviour.
That said, I think we can all agree that our God is a patient one. So who are we to quibble about whether the saviour took 2 million years to show or 4,000? If time was an issue, God would have sent Adam a saviour immediately after he sinned.

 

[Everloving]

God created not only the Earth during creation, but also Heaven. Did angles evolve too?? Or do they break the rules of your evolution. Or is that yet another missing link in the half done puzzle of evolutioen.

 

[vossler]

Heather,

First of all I'd like to welcome you to Origins Theology. It's a place where, as you've already discovered, theology or the Bible isn't the primary source of one's ideas or arguments, but science is. TEs dominate, but there are a few of us YECs around just to make sure they don't step too far out of bounds.

No- I am not anti-science. But- if it contradicts what the bible says- then I don't care how many "brilliant scientists" have say that something is a fact. If it contradicts the bible- it is hogwash.

I had to chuckle when I read this. I love your spunk, we could use you around here.

As far as your question here is a good answer from Answers in Genesis.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Area/AnswersBook/races18.asp

Here's an excerpt:

The Bible tells us how the population that descended from Noah’s family had one language and by living in one place were disobeying God’s command to ‘fill the earth’ (Genesis 9:1, 11:4). God confused their language, causing a break-up of the population into smaller groups which scattered over the earth (Genesis 11:8-9). Modern genetics show how, following such a break-up of a population, variations in skin color, for example, can develop in only a few generations. There is good evidence that the various people groups we have today have not been separated for huge periods of time.

The rest of the article is very interesting and worth your time.

Once again, welcome, stick around you'll find out things about your fellow Christians you never knew or thought of before.

 

[Jase]

No- I am not anti-science. But- if it contradicts what the bible says- then I don't care how many "brilliant scientists" have say that something is a fact. If it contradicts the bible- it is hogwash.

It doesn't contradict the Bible, it contradicts your interpretation of the bible. Considering there are thousands of interpretations, why is yours the only correct one? The Bible wasn't written in English, so the moment you read your KJV, or NIV, or whatever, you are putting an interpretation on the Bible that was not there in the original. Genesis in Hebrew reads much different than in English.

Not sure where scientists have went wrong in their calculations of the age of the earth. Why did so many lines of study lead to the same wrong answer?

They didn't lead to the wrong answer, they led to the right one. Science only gets better. A 6,000 year old Earth and global flood were disproven by creationists hundreds of years ago. Science has only gotten more accurate since then.

Maybe the error that scientists make is that they are trying to disporve the bible- contradict the word of God.

And yet, many scientists are Christians. Scientists have no hidden evil agenda to disprove the Bible. Science is the study of the natural universe - not an ancient text and theology.

Believe what you will about a literal 6 day creation and evolution. However- the message that you are sending to non-believers is that the bible is not based upon facts.

And you are sending the message to believers that Christianity is full of ignorant people who hold to ancient ideas that have since been disproven. Augustine pointed out that if Christians are going to claim such ridiculous things like a literal 6,000 Earth or global flood in the face of unbelievers who are very knowledgable in those fields, it makes the important things like the ressurection just as silly looking (my paraphrase). Holding to a literal Genesis only damages Christianity. It doesn't help it.

It's contents are ambiguous- they do not stand the test of time.

Considering there are 35,000 sects of Christianity who disagree on some aspect of Christian doctrine or the Bible, it's pretty obvious that the Bible is often times ambiguous anyway.

Whatever scientific principle that seems to be popular at any given time can disprove God's word. You really should be ashamed. What you are doing- by placing your faith in science rather that the bible is sending non-beleivers a very tragic message.

And the message you are sending is that Christianity is full of ignorant people and none of it is worth the time of day. What unbeliever wants to associate with a religion where its members are still claiming the Sun revolves around the Earth or the Earth is only 6,000 years old?

It is one that says- "don't trust the bible. Science has time and time again disproven it. God was not all powerful- he did not create the Earth in 6 days.

There is a difference between being capable of creating the Earth in 6 days, and actually doing it in 6 days. Theistic evolutionists agree with the former, but reject the latter.

He didn't get his creation right the first time- it took him billions of years of evoluionary attempts to create the eart and species that we have today.

The Bible never says God got it perfect the first time. It only says it was good. Which merely means it fit God's purpose. And considering according to you, God exterminated the entire planet except 8 people, and then felt bad for doing it, the Bible shows God didn't get it right the first time.

With all the genetic mutations and disorders that the populations has today- he STILL has not gotten it right".

Perhaps you should define what it means to "get it right", since by the literalist approach, the entire world is condemned by sin because one man ate a piece of fruit, and 90% of all humanity that ever lived or will lived will suffer eternally in Hell. That's "getting it right"?

If that is the message that I heard- and I was not a Christian- I certainly wouldn't become one.

And you think people are going to instead become Christian when you tell them the Earth is only 6,000 years old and a global flood with zero evidence destroyed the entire Earth 4300 years ago?

Why put your faith in a God who decieves people by his words in the bible and who has had several failed attempts at creating a perfect universe.

God never said the universe was perfect.

By failed attempts- I mean- according to evolution- conditions kept changing causing the need for species to evolve and adapt.

It is a fact that things adapt. Even most creationists accept this. It is rather telling if you don't. Where do you think antibiotics or different strains of viruses come from?

This doesn't coincide with the bible. God created Adam and Eve- they were created in God's image- we are all descendants of them.

In Hebrew, Adam isn't a name. Adam is the hebrew word for man or mankind.

If Jesus came to the Earth approximatley 2000 years ago- why would God wait billions of years to send him?

Why not? Maybe God thought it would be more impressive to put lots of time and care into the formation of the Earth instead of whipping it together in an instant. The Universe and Earth are far more impressive when they are ancient.

Why is there no biblical accounts of people living billions of years ago?

Why are there no Biblical accounts of nuclear fusion or gravity? The Bible doesn't mention everything.

It accounts for intelligent- modern day people. NOT PRIMITIVE APE-LIKE CREATURES. Surely if they were the former human race- they would be mentioned in the bible.

Why would they be mentioned? The Bible serves a very specific purpose. It is not a scientific recount of the entire history of life on Earth.

Yes- I know that there is evidence and fossils of Lucy, homo-erectus ect. But these fossils are not of the homo-sapien species. They are a species that have become exctinct.

No, but they are still hominids, and ancestors of modern day humans.

Humans are still here- God created Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. The bible says that they were intellegent- that Adam named every animal on Earth.

Despite there being millions upon millions of species of animals, fish, insects, etc., why doesn't the Bible mention Adam naming any of them?

Notice that he was fluent in his speaking- he did not grunt- he gave them names.

How do you know what Adam spoke? The author of Genesis wasn't born when Adam existed. Your entire theory is based on the assumption that the author was stating word for word everything Adam said.

Evolutionist that I have talked to disagree with the Tower of Bable- saying that languages have evolved slowly over a long period of time starting out with grunts.

This is true. Read up on linguistics. Our modern languages are evolved from the IndoEuropean languages. Why do you think so many romance languages are similar? Why do you think English borrowed tons of words from French, Spanish, Italian, German etc.? They evolved and developed from each other.

Not possible- Adam named the animals and he was the first man created. So he could not have been some primitive creature- but a modern day human created in the likeness of God. Think about the message you are sending to others- when you promote this heresy as fact.

You are treading on thin ground by claiming it isn't possible for God to have done it any other way.

People are in hell because of placing their faith in science rather than God. Think about it.

Ah, the old Hell threat. So much for God "getting it right" huh? I'm convinced Hell is a catholic invention. God is loving and good, not evil and vindictive.

 

[53Isaiah]

Well, why ask if you don't want to hear the answer!

Actually she asked for a Biblical response, to wit you did not respond within the scope of the question.

 

[Mallon]

Color is a gene, just like anything else. The allels (sp) within the genes deside [sic] color. Many creationist [sic] I have learned from believe that Adam and Eve were darker skinned. Somewhere between black and white. The mixing of these allels [sic] mixed with the spreading of people after the Tower of Babel caused the differences in skin.

This raises an important question -- have you ever seen two olive-skinned people give birth to a caucasian or black child? What do you think is the mechanism behind change in skin colour if not microevolution?

If I get a really bad sunburn or get really tan, as does my husband, will my children be sunburned or tan?? NO!!!! They will be what our genes, passed onto them, tell them to be.

Strawman. What you are describing is Lammarckian evolution, which was put to rest last millenium. Please get with the times!

Sure, interfamily marraige has caused some mutation in genes, but there is no good mutation I've ever heard of. Only degenerating mutation.

Ah. So you feel that white people, black people, and anyone not of God's original created race is a "degenerate". Gotcha! Now where have I heard such statements before???

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Did angles evolve too??


yes.
they are created as isosceles (all things being equal of course) and either devolve into acute or eventually progressing to become right but a significant number just get fat and end up obtuse(for some hidden reason).

(i represent that remark!!!)

 

[Jase]

Color is a gene, just like anything else. The allels (sp) within the genes deside color. Many creationist I have learned from believe that Adam and Eve were darker skinned. Somewhere between black and white. The mixing of these allels mixed with the spreading of people after the Tower of Babel caused the differences in skin. They also determine many characteristic. Evolution in skincolor or anything else is bull. If I get a really bad sunburn or get really tan, as does my husband, will my children be sunburned or tan?? NO!!!! They will be what our genes, passed onto them, tell them to be. Sure, interfamily marraige has caused some mutation in genes, but there is no good mutation I've ever heard of. Only degenerating mutation. So, using this as proof of evolution means that we are degenerating forms a frogs and other such creatures.

You really need to learn about evolution. Seeing that you're only 15, I can understand where your lack of understanding comes from, but at least learn about what you're arguing. Skin color is due to adaptive evolution due to the difference in the UV rays in certain parts of the world. That would be why Africans are predominately dark skinned. High degree of UV sunlight there. And no you getting a tan would not make your kids tan since evolution occurs in populations, not in individuals.

 

[Everloving]

God created not only the Earth during creation, but also Heaven. Did angles evolve too?? Or do they break the rules of your evolution. Or is that yet another missing link in the half done puzzle of evolutioen.

Anybody wanna answer this??? Let's hear evolutions side of the creation of Heaven.

 

[Mallon]

Actually she asked for a Biblical response, to wit you did not respond within the scope of the question.

No response given was contrary to the Bible, and therefore was not anti-biblical.

 

[theFijian]

What's more powerful. Watching a plant grow into a person, or taking the dust of the earth and forming it into a human being. That's the God I worship.

What's more powerful: watching an embryo growing into a person over 30 years, or taking the dust of the earth and forming it into a human being. How were you formed?

 

[Mallon]

Anybody wanna answer this??? Let's hear evolutions side of the creation of Heaven.

Can you give science a physical angel to study?

 

[53Isaiah]

You think people are going to instead become Christian when you tell them the Earth is only 6,000 years old and a global flood with zero evidence destroyed the entire Earth 4300 years ago?

No, nor did I need to know whether or not Adam had a belly button to believe the gospel of Christ...

 

[theFijian]

Anybody wanna answer this??? Let's hear evolutions side of the creation of Heaven.

Evolution occurs in biological organisms, Angels are not biological organisms. It's helpful to have a clue what you're talking about before shooting your mouth off.

 

[Everloving]

Ah. So you feel that white people, black people, and anyone not of God's original created race is a "degenerate". Gotcha! Now where have I heard such statements before???

You must not have read my full post.