just wondering!

[heatherwayno]

I was thinking today about different races of people. I don't know why but I just started wondering if there was a biblical explaination as to why different races have different characteristics and why there are so many races to begin with. I am glad there is diversity in the world but was just wondering if the bible mentions anything about it and could it have anything to do with the tower of babel??

 

[Maccie]

Its called evolution. And haven't you posted this on another thread somewhere??

And when groups of people are isolated from others, usually by geography, they will develop, over a very long period of time (its called evolution) different characteristics.

Don't forget people could only travel as fast as they could walk, and anyway, tended to stay within their own tribe's area. Movements to other areas were usually caused by pressure of population or lack of food. And there weren't many people around anyway in the beginning, so groups were pretty isolated.

Nothing to do with the Tower of Babel.

 

[heatherwayno]

No, have not posted this elsewhere- also evolution is a load of crap.

 

[rmwilliamsll]

No, have not posted this elsewhere- also evolution is a load of crap.

i should change my mind having read this.
years of study and thousands of books notwithstanding.
your grasp of the appropriate evidence and simple eloquence in it's presentation are very persuasive.

changing people's minds about scientific topics is all about the evidence.

 

[Maccie]

Well, why ask if you don't want to hear the answer!

 

[Turquoise]

No, have not posted this elsewhere- also evolution is a load of crap.

God is in control of evolution, if God wasn't we would still be in the pond.
Science can only answer the "how" questions not the "why" questions.

 

[heatherwayno]

Ok- I am not going to go throogh the reasons why evolution contradicts the bible. I wanted an answer- a serious one. My God got it right hte first time- things didn't evolve slowly over time- the earth was created with age imbedded into it to support life- and the life that it supported came in the form of Adam and Eve- real modern day homosapiens- not primatives or other ape-like creature. Don't want to offend anyone- but am not wanting to hear ridicoulus answers- I wanted an answer based on a biblical perspective. You may say evolution is biblical- but the bible is to be taken literally.

 

[Melethiel]

I wanted an answer- a serious one.

We did give you a serious answer. The formation of races wouldn't even be macroevolution, it would be micro. It was of my understanding that microevolution is accepted by YECs.

but the bible is to be taken literally.

Why? When some parts so obviously are not meant to be?

 

[random_guy]

Ok- I am not going to go throogh the reasons why evolution contradicts the bible. I wanted an answer- a serious one. My God got it right hte first time- things didn't evolve slowly over time- the earth was created with age imbedded into it to support life- and the life that it supported came in the form of Adam and Eve- real modern day homosapiens- not primatives or other ape-like creature. Don't want to offend anyone- but am not wanting to hear ridicoulus answers- I wanted an answer based on a biblical perspective. You may say evolution is biblical- but the bible is to be taken literally.

This is directly related to a thread Jereth created. He hit it right on the nail.

http://www.christianforums.com/t3280273-yecists-tragically-weak-view-of-god.html

 

[Mallon]

If you only wanted to hear answers that would agree with you, heatherwayno, then perhaps you should have posted in the creationists only forum.
That said...

My God got it right hte first time- things didn't evolve slowly over time- the earth was created with age imbedded into it to support life- and the life that it supported came in the form of Adam and Eve- real modern day homosapiens- not primatives or other ape-like creature.

I always liked looking at it the other way, as quoted from Ken Miller's book, Finding Darwin's God:

"If you deny evolution, then the sort of God you have in mind is a bit like a pool player who can sink fifteen balls in a row, but only by taking fifteen separate shots. My God plays the game a little differently. He walks up to the table, takes just one shot, and sinks all the balls. I ask you which pool player, which God, is more worthy or praise and worship?"

 

[Jase]

No, have not posted this elsewhere- also evolution is a load of crap.

Evolution is a fact.

 

[Jase]

Ok- I am not going to go throogh the reasons why evolution contradicts the bible.

Evolution only contradicts the YEC literalist interpretation of the Bible.

I wanted an answer- a serious one.

You got a serious answer. Races are due to evolutionary adaptation. If you are going to reject that outright, you shouldn't have posted anything.

things didn't evolve slowly over time- the earth was created with age imbedded into it to support life-

This is called the Omphalos argument, and it doesn't work. The Earth doesn't just have age embedded by your reasoning, it has 4.5 billion years of observable history. The Earth is scarred due to events that could have never occured in the past 6,000 years. Not to mention, the Earth doesn't require 4.5 billion years to support life, so it seems awfully odd that that is the amount of "age emedded". To claim age is embedded means God deceived humanity since we can observe the Earth and universe and see that it was not created 6,000 years ago.

and the life that it supported came in the form of Adam and Eve- real modern day homosapiens- not primatives or other ape-like creature.

Where does the Bible say Adam and Eve were 21st Century humans?

Don't want to offend anyone- but am not wanting to hear ridicoulus answers- I wanted an answer based on a biblical perspective.

The Biblical perspective answer is the ridiculous one. You were given the observed, rational answer, but you seem to not like it.

You may say evolution is biblical- but the bible is to be taken literally.

So you agree that the Earth is the center of the solar system, sits on top of pillars, is flat, has 4 corners, and has a solid dome above it? If the Bible is to be taken literally, so must the Biblical view of the world.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Ok- I am not going to go throogh the reasons why evolution contradicts the bible.

Too bad... you'd learn a lot watching those reasons get shot down.

I wanted an answer- a serious one. My God got it right hte first time-

Tell that to Noah.

things didn't evolve slowly over time- the earth was created with age imbedded into it to support life-

A false age?

and the life that it supported came in the form of Adam and Eve- real modern day homosapiens- not primatives or other ape-like creature.

When?

Don't want to offend anyone- but am not wanting to hear ridicoulus answers- I wanted an answer based on a biblical perspective.

There is none. Time to look for a scientific perspetive, then.

You may say evolution is biblical- but the bible is to be taken literally.

I don't say it's Biblical, and I don't say the Bible is to be taken literally. Why do you say it?

 

[heatherwayno]

How can you be sure that the earth has 4.5 billion years of obserable history? Were you there when the earth was created and then was scarred as you say? God is capable of anything- and didn't imbed the earth with age to deceive us- perhaps what is deceiving you are the "accurate scientific methods" of dating the earth and the events that have shaped the Earth in the way that it is today? The more intelligent that a person tries to sound- by backing their arguments up with "scientific proof," the more foolish that you sound.

 

[Jase]

How can you be sure that the earth has 4.5 billion years of obserable history? Were you there when the earth was created and then was scarred as you say? God is capable of anything- and didn't imbed the earth with age to deceive us- perhaps what is deceiving you are the "accurate scientific methods" of dating the earth and the events that have shaped the Earth in the way that it is today? The more intelligent that a person tries to sound- by backing their arguments up with "scientific proof," the more foolish that you sound.

We know the age of the Earth by extensive research and observation. We see asteroid impacts, the geological column, fossils, etc. We can date meteorites that have impacted the Earth. The Earth must be at least as old as the meteorites.

You don't need to be present to see the remnants of ancient events. If you see someone with a scar, you know something happened to them in the past to cause that scar. Creating the Earth with 4.5 billion years of history that never happened is like creating Adam with an apendectomy scar, even though he never had his appendix removed.

And this is just the Earth. We can see stars that are more than 6,000 light years away. How, by your reasoning, did stars get past 6,000 light years? By the YEC model, any star farther than 6,000 light years doesn't exist, despite us being able to see the light from them.

 

[The Lady Kate]

God is capable of anything- and didn't imbed the earth with age to deceive us- perhaps what is deceiving you are the "accurate scientific methods" of dating the earth and the events that have shaped the Earth in the way that it is today?

Well, then... let's see if we can figure out how so many independent lines of study have led to the same wrong answer.

If the Earth is not ~4.5 million years ago, exactly where did we all go wrong in our calculations?

The more intelligent that a person tries to sound- by backing their arguments up with "scientific proof," the more foolish that you sound.

So... you're anti-science?

 

[heatherwayno]

No- I am not anti-science. But- if it contradicts what the bible says- then I don't care how many "brilliant scientists" have say that something is a fact. If it contradicts the bible- it is hogwash.



Not sure where scientists have went wrong in their calculations of the age of the earth. Why did so many lines of study lead to the same wrong answer?

Look at any standardized math test. Frequently- a number of students will pick the same wrong answer. Their calculations are not correct- they all make the same simple error. Maybe the error that scientists make is that they are trying to disporve the bible- contradict the word of God. Believe what you will about a literal 6 day creation and evolution. However- the message that you are sending to non-believers is that the bible is not based upon facts. It's contents are ambiguous- they do not stand the test of time. Whatever scientific principle that seems to be popular at any given time can disprove God's word. You really should be ashamed. What you are doing- by placing your faith in science rather that the bible is sending non-beleivers a very tragic message. It is one that says- "don't trust the bible. Science has time and time again disproven it. God was not all powerful- he did not create the Earth in 6 days. He didn't get his creation right the first time- it took him billions of years of evoluionary attempts to create the eart and species that we have today. With all the genetic mutations and disorders that the populations has today- he STILL has not gotten it right". If that is the message that I heard- and I was not a Christian- I certainly wouldn't become one. Why put your faith in a God who decieves people by his words in the bible and who has had several failed attempts at creating a perfect universe. By failed attempts- I mean- according to evolution- conditions kept changing causing the need for species to evolve and adapt. This doesn't coincide with the bible. God created Adam and Eve- they were created in God's image- we are all descendants of them. If Jesus came to the Earth approximatley 2000 years ago- why would God wait billions of years to send him? Why is there no biblical accounts of people living billions of years ago? It accounts for intelligent- modern day people. NOT PRIMITIVE APE-LIKE CREATURES. Surely if they were the former human race- they would be mentioned in the bible. Could God not use them to do his work? According to you- apparantly not. They are not mentioned in the bible. So- why then would God have even created them? Yes- I know that there is evidence and fossils of Lucy, homo-erectus ect. But these fossils are not of the homo-sapien species. They are a species that have become exctinct. Humans are still here- God created Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. The bible says that they were intellegent- that Adam named every animal on Earth. Notice that he was fluent in his speaking- he did not grunt- he gave them names. Evolutionist that I have talked to disagree with the Tower of Bable- saying that languages have evolved slowly over a long period of time starting out with grunts. Not possible- Adam named the animals and he was the first man created. So he could not have been some primitive creature- but a modern day human created in the likeness of God. Think about the message you are sending to others- when you promote this heresy as fact. People are in hell because of placing their faith in science rather than God. Think about it.

 

[Melethiel]

Maybe the error that scientists make is that they are trying to disporve the bible

Hogwash. Scientists have no interest in disproving the Bible. Science and religion are two completely different fields.

It's contents are ambiguous- they do not stand the test of time. Whatever scientific principle that seems to be popular at any given time can disprove God's word.

On the contrary, if one does not attempt to read the Bible as a scientific textbook, only then does it stand the test of time. The message carried in Scripture - that of the Gospel of Christ - is not dependent on whether Genesis 1 is interpreted literally or not.

If Jesus came to the Earth approximatley 2000 years ago- why would God wait billions of years to send him?

If the YEC model is correct, why did God wait 4000 years to send him? Who are you, O man, to judge God?

The rest of your post - the parts about homo erectus and Adam and Eve - is pretty much a strawman.

 

[heatherwayno]

You are correct that the gospel of Christ is not dependant on Genesis being taken literally or not. However- why should we trust God if he is trying to deceive us into thinking he created the earth in 6 days? Doesn't make sense.

Yes- science and religion are 2 different fields. However- watch discovery or the history channel. THEY ARE ALWAYS COMING OUT WITH NEW INFORMATION THAT "DISPROVES THE BIBLE!" So science is often used to try and disporve the bible- your quote saying otherwise is unfounded.

 

[heatherwayno]

I am not trying to jusdge God- but would it make more sense for him to wait 4.5 billion years or only 4000 to send a saviour? BC the people were to look towards the cross in anticipation of a saviour coming. After 4.5 billion years and no saviour- I think most everyone would loose faith in the anticipation of one ever coming. 4000 years is a little more reasonable than 4.5 billion years.