Just when I was starting to like Christianity...

dvd_holc · Dec 5, 2005

[b said:
£amb[/b]]Are you waiting for all the verses to be clarified?

LyricalX said:
Bluntly, yes

Did you believe God will show up before or after all your questions will be answered? Or, is God already present guiding you to know him better and you are already interacting with him present?

Catherineanne · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
so Christians don't follow anything in the Old Testament?

Back when Europe was enslaving African

They would use that to make out what they were doing is fine

You are quite right. People have used Biblical quotes, and still continue to use Biblical quotes, to justify cruelty, bigotry, racism, genocide, sexism; you name it, if you want to practice any kind of oppression of another human being or race, somewhere you will find a quote giving you permission in the Bible. And you will also find a hundred others, saying you should not do these things, but those get forgotten, or discounted.

However, the Bible is not the Word of God. Our Lord is the Word, and he does not give any of us permission to oppress, subjugate, enslave or belittle anyone. He is the standard by which we are measured, and he is the example we follow.

thepianist · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
I read this

Try and defend that one

No wonder so many Christian nations enslaved the people of Africa

Nothing to defend.....my question to you would be this one......Do you know Jesus as your personal Saviour? That, my friend, is the most important question you will ever answer during your life.....whether you realize it or not.

LyricalX · Dec 5, 2005

dvd_holc said:
[/i]
Did you believe God will show up before or after all your questions will be answered? Or, is God already present guiding you to know him better and you are already interacting with him present?

The second one

It could be the 'Christian' God guiding me to him, it could be the 'Islamic' God showing me the Bible so I can find out it's not the way.

But there's definitley someone guiding me.

happy birthday!

Thank you!

£amb · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
I ask because some of it confuses me. Christianity is meant to be so against slavery etc. and then I read that. So who better to question than a Christian? I understand, I have been a christian for many years and there are things I still have to search the answers for.

When im 100% it is the road to take, when will that be? I have no idea, I don't want to rush myself, but I don't want to be too late. I don't want you to be too late either.

Bluntly, yes

If I like and believe what I see, yes

Im reading the Book of John right now. And it's great, i'd love it to be true, and the text book problem is, I'm not sure if it's true. Just keep reading, then you may want to continue into Romans and Hebrews. Those are pretty good starters into understanding things about our faith.

As I said before, I very glad to seeing you opening up more. I understand that there are many things you do not understand, and I am in no way criticizing you for it. But my concern was that you were using these as excuses for yourself to not want to believe. I feel that God has been speaking to your heart, but you are putting hurdles in the way. I am glad that you are here with questions, because it helps me keep studying away myself.

dvd_holc · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
The second one

It could be the 'Christian' God guiding me to him, it could be the 'Islamic' God showing me the Bible so I can find out it's not the way.

But there's definitley someone guiding me.

Thank you!

Your welcome. I am glad that you gotten so far in your journey. I pray that you will accept God for who he is and your purpose through his strength. And, I know your where using "Islamic" as an example...but It is not God.

LyricalX · Dec 5, 2005

£amb said:
As I said before, I very glad to seeing you opening up more.

Well when I first came on here, I may have come across as someone who just wanted to bash this religion. But God is something we humans can't even comprehend. Now I've settled myself down, and seeking, not sub-consciesly denying.

I understand that there are many things you do not understand, and I am in no way criticizing you for it. But my concern was that you were using these as excuses for yourself to not want to believe.

Well some of the points I raised I found negative, and I don't want to believe in something like that. But I find members here have answered questions very well, which has REALLY helped. So now I make a less hostile approach when questioning

I feel that God has been speaking to your heart, but you are putting hurdles in the way.

I feel those 'hurdles' will make the goal even better. You feel better after climbing a mountain than walking down to the shop.

I am glad that you are here with questions, because it helps me keep studying away myself.

Debating is the best way to test your knowledge.

LyricalX · Dec 5, 2005

dvd_holc said:
Your welcome. I am glad that you gotten so far in your journey.

So am I

I pray that you will accept God for who he is and your purpose through his strength. [/QUOTE]

Prayers would be appreciated lol

And, I know your where using "Islamic" as an example...but It is not God.

lol, well i'm sure a Muslim would say there is no 'Christian' God

£amb · Dec 5, 2005

I feel those 'hurdles' will make the goal even better. You feel better after climbing a mountain than walking down to the shop.

Only if you knew how out-of-shape I was...

LyricalX · Dec 5, 2005

£amb said:
Only if you knew how out-of-shape I was...

LOL

If you moved to Greece and attend a church in the mountains, then you'll be fit!

LyricalX · Dec 5, 2005

Rolf Ernst said:
A dose of reality for you: The people of Africa are still enslaving one another.

Research into how Africa was BEFORE Europeans interrupted.

The slave trade in England was brought to a halt by white CHRISTIAN preachers who regularly met to pray for the end of slavery. White CHRISTIAN preachers were the leading force in bringing slavery to a halt in America.

It was 'white Christians' that had started the whole thing! So don't try that one with me! Slavery in America was abolished because of the civil more, they meant more soldiers. Not everything is Black and White.

When the truth doesn't fit the profile you want, you have to misrepresent it by ignoring the effects of Christianity, don't you.

Ignoring the effects? How can I ignore the effects? Most of this world has been effected by it's followers!

See, it's posts like this that try and deny the atrocities this religion has done!

dvd_holc · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
lol, well i'm sure a Muslim would say there is no 'Christian' God

They say Allah is our God, but it has a different image of God. Also, it is a religion of people doing deeds rather then the presence of God being brought through our faith in him.

JEBofChristTheLord · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
Research into how Africa was BEFORE Europeans interrupted.

Indeed, I have. It was awful. They were enslaving each other, killing each other, and eating each other.

See, it's posts like this that try and deny the atrocities this religion has done!

People who claim Christ have done many gross atrocities indeed. But no one in obedience to Christ has ever done any atrocities at all. It is amazing how many people, to this day, paste the name of Christ on themselves while not caring for His commandments.

LyricalX · Dec 5, 2005

jonathanbrickman0000 said:
Indeed, I have. It was awful. They were enslaving each other, killing each other, and eating each other.

We must of been reading from different sources then

Africa was a thriving civilization before it was raped

People who claim Christ have done many gross atrocities indeed. But no one in obedience to Christ has ever done any atrocities at all. It is amazing how many people, to this day, paste the name of Christ on themselves while not caring for His commandments.

I'm speaking about the followers

Again you are denying it

JEBofChristTheLord · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
We must of been reading from different sources then

Africa was a thriving civilization before it was raped

There were some thriving civilizations. There were also slavers and cannibals.

I'm speaking about the followers

Again you are denying it

Do you know any of the commandments of the Christ? Or are you simply presuming, without knowing?

People who truly follow Christ do not kill their brothers and sisters. Or their neighbors. Or their enemies.

People who truly follow Christ do not persecute their neighbors or their enemies.

People who truly follow Christ do not rape.

There are a lot of fakers.

LyricalX · Dec 5, 2005

So it's a case of power abusers?

As for the Africa bit

Slavers and Cannibals existed all over the world

And still, did that make the slavery ok then?

£amb · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
LOL

If you moved to Greece and attend a church in the mountains, then you'll be fit!

My husband had been there a couple years ago. He found out how out of shape he was. What he found exciting was to be able to stand in the same place as Paul did when he preached to the people there.

loriersea · Dec 5, 2005

shirono said:
so since God wasn't the one who said all that stuff, why do you christians say that Homosexuality is wrong in gods eyes, the verses you usually cite are out of leviticus and you say that not all of those laws were written by God. So how do you figure out whichones are right to follow and which ones are not.

Or is it just your own disgust for homosexuals that lead you to say it's wrong?

just a friendly question from heathen exchristian.

Like many, many Christians, I *don't* say that homosexuality is wrong. I say that the culture that the Bible grew out of believed that homosexuality was wrong, and so that's why that is in the Bible, but their prejudices should never be confused with God's view. It was wrong for the OT and NT writers to condone slavery. And, their understanding of sexuality was limited by their culture, which had no understanding of sexual orientation. Again and again, homosexuality is written of as being "unnatural," and yet we now know that homosexuality is VERY natural, not just among humans, but other animals, as well. We know that homosexuality is an innate characteristic (whether due to genetics, womb environment, early experiences, or some combination thereof) and that same-sex relationships are in fact very natural for a small minority of the population. So I would never cite the Bible to condemn homosexuality, and I've known far too many gay and lesbian people to imagine that God doesn't bless their unions the same way he blesses straight unions.

There are many Christians out there who believe that homosexuality is no more sinful than heterosexuality, and many denominations that welcome gay and lesbian members.

loriersea · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
Where does it say in the Bible

'Forget all that, do this now'

Why bother having the Old Testament?

The Old Testament records the faith history of our spiritual ancestors. It documents their powerful experiences of God, and through sharing in their experiences, God can speak to us. But, that doesn't mean that every single thing they say must be seen as right.

Longing4Home · Dec 5, 2005

LyricalX said:
Where does it say in the Bible

'Forget all that, do this now'

Why bother having the Old Testament?

It doesn't !!!
Lets see what Jesus has to say:
Matthew 5:17-20 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

5:17-20

If Jesus did not come to abolish the law, does that mean all the Old Testament laws still apply to us today? In the Old Testament, there were three categories of law: ceremonial, civil, and moral.

(1) The ceremonial law related specifically to Israel's worship (see Leviticus 1 :2,3, for example). Its primary purpose was to point forward to Jesus Christ; these laws, therefore, were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. While we are no longer bound by ceremonial laws, the principles behind them - to worship and love a holy God - still apply. Jesus was often accused by the Pharisees of violating ceremonial law

(2) The civil law applied to daily living in Israel (see Deuteronomy24:10, 11, for example) Because modern society and culture are so radically different from that time and setting, all of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. But the principles behind the commands are timeless and should guide our conduct. Jesus demonstrated these principles by example.

(3) The moral law (such as the Ten Commandments) is the di, rect command of God, and it requires strict obedience (see Exodus 20:13,Jor example).The moral law reveals the nature and will of God, and it still applies today. Jesus obeyed the moral law completely.

Commentary from NIV Life Application Study Bible.

I believe the civil law answers your original question.
In Christ,
Glen

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