Just How Bad Is Denominational Decline?

[Markie Boy]

I think only God can change my mind that Papal Infallibility is true. I actually read accounts of how Vatican I was handled, and it seems like a power grab, not an act of the Holy Spirit.

There is no such thing as a list of Infallible statements, because nobody can agree on what they are. If you stick with the recent two as the only ones, it's pretty hard to say this is an Apostolic practice going back to the Apostles.

As for it being reformed, probably never. Who knows what the next pope will look like after this one appoints so many cardinals.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I think only God can change my mind that Papal Infallibility is true.

Then we will pray for that.

I actually read accounts of how Vatican I was handled, and it seems like a power grab, not an act of the Holy Spirit.

You haven’t seen how sausage is made. Even the Bible is the word of God in the words of men. Which means if we get to looking at the details of the men we can wonder just how God could ever use them.

There is no such thing as a list of Infallible statements, because nobody can agree on what they are. If you stick with the recent two as the only ones, it's pretty hard to say this is an Apostolic practice going back to the Apostles.

Separating out ordinary magisterium from papal magisterium is a primitive art form. Most of what we have from the magisterium is ordinary stuff and not papal stuff.

As for it being reformed, probably never. Who knows what the next pope will look like after this one appoints so many cardinals.

I could despair but even in eras with multiple bad popes the Church found a way to reform. We get to pray when things look darkest. They look dark now. We need prayer warriors. Nothing else will suffice.

 

[mourningdove~]

I think only God can change my mind that Papal Infallibility is true.

For a former Catholic considering a return to the Catholic Church?
I very much agree.

And maybe one's mind will never change on some subjects ...
but is that enough to keep one away from The True Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist?

You see, that is what I think it often finally gets down to, for many reverts ...
especially those who are committed to Jesus and serious about their walk of faith.
If one truly believes that Jesus is present in the consecrated host ...
for how long can they stay away?

No denomination will be perfect ... and some are definitely more fun than others! ...
but for those who have faith in the Holy Eucharist, we know it is only found one place.

I did not make my decision to revert based on the things about the RC that I question or may not like.
It was belief in the Holy Eucharist that 'drew' me back ...

May God continue to bless your faith journey.
I know it is not easy to make these kinds of decisions, and especially when one has a family to consider.

 

[Markie Boy]

Thanks for the kind replies - and things to think about.

I left frustrated. I went to other denominations, and found they have their own teachings and traditions that are not Biblical, or historical. Dispensationalism, the pre-trib rapture, OSAS, etc.

But I had a recent discussion with a good, conservative, Baptist pastor, where he mentioned how he had many church members that were really growing. I asked him - what does that mean, what is "growing". My exposure to that meant that one was gaining Biblical knowledge. But I had seen, and had personall been, one that did that - but did not grow in love or obedience, nor produce much fruit. As he pondered it - he said that looking for the fruit would be key - so that was great! But not what I typically feel I ran into.

I have no idea where I'll end up. I have checked out protestantism first hand, and the only ones that come close are the conservative Lutherans. Honstly - they are more traditional Catholic than our local Catholic parish, when it comes to liturgy and teaching.

Makes a guy's head hurt.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Thanks for the kind replies - and things to think about.

I left frustrated. I went to other denominations, and found they have their own teachings and traditions that are not Biblical, or historical. Dispensationalism, the pre-trib rapture, OSAS, etc.

But I had a recent discussion with a good, conservative, Baptist pastor, where he mentioned how he had many church members that were really growing. I asked him - what does that mean, what is "growing". My exposure to that meant that one was gaining Biblical knowledge. But I had seen, and had personall been, one that did that - but did not grow in love or obedience, nor produce much fruit. As he pondered it - he said that looking for the fruit would be key - so that was great! But not what I typically feel I ran into.

I have no idea where I'll end up. I have checked out protestantism first hand, and the only ones that come close are the conservative Lutherans. Honstly - they are more traditional Catholic than our local Catholic parish, when it comes to liturgy and teaching.

Makes a guy's head hurt.

Traditional Lutherans and Traditional Anglicans do come close. At times they seem closer than some kinds of Catholics. But then Traditional Anglicans often become Catholic. It was ten years ago that a nearby Episcopalian parish became a Catholic parish in the Ordinariate. There are Traditional Lutherans who I have no doubt would become Catholic if there was a Lutheran Ordinariate. That may be a job for future pope Benedict XVII. In the mean time waiting for that yes indeed we have some similarities. I respect LCMS and WELS even though their positions on evolution/creation are too far out there for me.

You really do need to plan at least one trip down to St. Michael's in Stillwater. I know it's a long way. I used to live there and I did occasional work in Rice Lake and Hayward and even Wausau and Superior and LaCrosse. But it will be a positive for you. Even at that distance.

 

[WarriorAngel]

It all started with the cracks in the seams.
And as they say - the slippery slope etc

 

[chevyontheriver]

It all started with the cracks in the seams.
And as they say - the slippery slope etc

How come they deny the very possibility of a slippery slope until after we have slipped down it?

 

[Markie Boy]

How come they deny the very possibility of a slippery slope until after we have slipped down it?

Simple, sound, logic - well put