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Just for final clarification yes, we evolved from monkeys.

rjs330

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Here's a simple challenge: try reading one of John Walton's books: The Lost World of Genesis One. Walton has a very high view of scripture, is an evangelical and teaches at an Evangelical school, and believes in a historical Adam and Eve. Just read the book and report back to us not just that he's wrong about Genesis, but why he's wrong. I've read plenty by creationists. Have you actually read the views you're rejecting?


Yet we see that the Bible is and has been interpreted very differently, by Christians who appear to have been entirely sincere in their desire to interpret it correctly. Unless your view is that it is straightforward to interpret the Bible correctly, and it just so happens that the correct interpretation is the one embraced by whatever particular 21st century branch of Christianity you reside on, you have to deal with the reality that there are many approaches to interpretation.

21st century,has nothing to Do with it. The Christians have interpreted the scritptures that way from the beginning. Take a look at Jesus words and the words,of the apostles. Since they were the founders of the church I think they would know how to interpret far better than some "scholar" of the 21st century who says it should be interpreted differently than they did. By the way the writer of Exodus interpreted it literally and he was intimately involved with the culture of the day along with being inspired. I would say he has a far better understanding than Walton.

Walton,makes a lot of claims without strong historical support from the ancient Hebrews. Also his thought on function and material creation are not supported by scripture. If you read Genesis both are included in much of the passage. And often the materials are created before the functional aspect is presented.

He is a believer in man's science. Therefore his "theory" is presented in order to try and make the bible conform to science.

He believes in,Adam but not in the biblical creation of Adam. So he is one that is very willing to not hold,scripture in High Authority because his claim of it can only be understood by other ancient writings. It only is high authority as long as complies with his thoughts, not based on what it says.

I repeat as nauseum what does it say? It says what it says. What does it say in Exodus? What does Paul say? To deny that it says What it says is to deny its authority. Its to deny the Words taught by the Holy Spirit.
 
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I'm context I thought it would be understood, but apparently not. To clarify I meant he believes in man's science over Gods word.

I've been reading sfs' posts on this forum for a decade and he believes God's Creation and what it tells us about the earth and life on it. Or as us secular folks call it - reality.
 
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rjs330

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I've been reading sfs' posts on this forum for a decade and he believes God's Creation and what it tells us about the earth and life on it. Or as us secular folks call it - reality.
My post was aimed at Walton not sfs. However, if sfs does believe like Walton then he does not believe in creation as given in the scriptures. He may believe that God created, he just doesn't believe that God did it the way he said he did it.
 
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RickG

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I'm context I thought it would be understood, but apparently not. To clarify I meant he believes in man's science over Gods word.
I can verify man's science but no one can verify God's word as it is what "man" decided it was.
 
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AV1611VET

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My post was aimed at Walton not sfs. However, if sfs does believe like Walton then he does not believe in creation as given in the scriptures. He may believe that God created, he just doesn't believe that God did it the way he said he did it.
sfs is a scientist.
 
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AV1611VET

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I can verify man's science but no one can verify God's word as it is what "man" decided it was.
Like Pluto?

Like Thalidomide?

Like the Deepwater Horizon?

Like L'Quila?
 
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USincognito

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My post was aimed at Walton not sfs. However, if sfs does believe like Walton then he does not believe in creation as given in the scriptures. He may believe that God created, he just doesn't believe that God did it the way he said he did it.

And yet the Creation itself tells a very different story than Genesis. It's almost as if your interpretation of Genesis is taking precedence over reality. That's not a good position to hold and it's one that creates a lot of crises of faith when people are actually exposed to science.
 
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AV1611VET

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And yet the Creation itself tells a very different story than Genesis.
You a creationist all of a sudden, are you?

Else, why didn't you say:

"And yet the formation itself tells a very different story than Genesis."

The creation of the earth and the formation of the earth are two different things.
 
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rjs330

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And yet the Creation itself tells a very different story than Genesis. It's almost as if your interpretation of Genesis is taking precedence over reality. That's not a good position to hold and it's one that creates a lot of crises of faith when people are actually exposed to science.
Exactly why I believe God rather than man. God is right and man is wrong. If science tells a different story science is wrong Because man is not reliable. God is reliable. Gods word is reliable. How many times have men in science has to correct themselves and their findings and theories? Men lie God doesn't.
 
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USincognito

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Exactly why I believe God rather than man.

No, you don't. You deny God's creation and what it tells us.

God is right and man is wrong. If science tells a different story science is wrong Because man is not reliable.

Science is how we understand God's creation. The reason it tells a different story than your literal interpretation of Genesis is because a literal interpretation of Genesis is not supported by the evidence. Period.

How many times have men in science has to correct themselves and their findings and theories?

Fewer times in the last 100 years than dishonest professional Creationists have been caught lying in the past 10 years.

Men lie God doesn't.

Indeed. And God's creation isn't lying about deep time and evolution.
 
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mmksparbud

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Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This God wrote with His own finger on stone---so He is lying in Genesis 1 and when He again stated the same thing in the 10 commandments? If He wanted to He could have easily just said--"it took thousands and thousands and thousands of years to make the earth and man." Simple. Why make it so complicated that it took 6 days of evening and mornings and what occurred with each day?
 
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bhsmte

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Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This God wrote with His own finger on stone---so He is lying in Genesis 1 and when He again stated the same thing in the 10 commandments? If He wanted to He could have easily just said--"it took thousands and thousands and thousands of years to make the earth and man." Simple. Why make it so complicated that it took 6 days of evening and mornings and what occurred with each day?

Why would a God leave evidence that contradicts a literal reading of Genesis?
 
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mmksparbud

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Why would a God leave evidence that contradicts a literal reading of Genesis?


Why would God say he crested light before He crested the sun?---Well that is obviously against the known facts and therefore for 1000's of years it has been against known observable science.

In space, UV light emitted from stars and quasars ionizes hydrogen atoms, stripping them of their electrons. By measuring the amount of ionized gas in the universe, astrophysicists should be able to estimate how much UV light there should be, but herein lies the problem: When scientists add up all the UV lights emitted by all the stars and quasars we know of, it only accounts for about 1/5th of the UV light in space. So where is all this extra UV light coming from? Astronomers are really scratching their heads on this one.

One theory is that it's coming from the mysterious stuff known as Dark Matter. Little is known about Dark Matter, other than it accounts for 80% of the mass of the universe and we can't see it. (To learn more about Dark Matter, check out Anthony's DNews episode on Dark Matter here.) Since we can't see it, Dark Matter shouldn't be absorbing or emitting any kind of electromagnetic radiation, so this theory has some skeptics.



16 July 2014
Strange dark stuff is making the universe too bright

By Lisa Grossman
LIGHT is in crisis. The universe is far brighter than it should be based on the number of light-emitting objects we can find, a cosmic accounting problem that has astronomers baffled.

“Something is very wrong,” says Juna Kollmeier at the Observatories of the Carnegie Institution of Washington in Pasadena, California.

Solving the mystery could show us novel ways to hunt for dark matter, or reveal the presence of another unknown “dark” component to the cosmos.

“It’s such a big discrepancy that whatever we find is going to be amazing, and it will overturn something we currently think is true,” says Kollmeier.

“Whatever we find is going to be amazing, and it will overturn something we currently think is true”

The trouble stems from the most recent census of objects that produce high-energy ultraviolet light. Some of the biggest known sources are quasars – galaxies with actively feeding black holes at their centres. These behemoths spit out plenty of UV light as matter falling into them is heated and compressed. Young galaxies filled with hot, bright stars are also contributors.

Ultraviolet light from these objects ionises the gas that permeates intergalactic space, stripping hydrogen atoms of their electrons. Observations of the gas can tell us how much of it has been ionised, helping astronomers to estimate the amount of UV light that must be flying about.

But as our images of the cosmos became sharper, astronomers found that these measurements don’t seem to tally with the number of sources found.

Kollmeier started worrying in 2012, when Francesco Haardt at the University of Insubria in Como, Italy, and Piero Madau at the University of California, Santa Cruz, compiled the results of several sky surveys and found far fewer UV sources than previously suggested.

Then in February, Charles Danforth at the University of Colorado, Boulder, and his colleagues released the latest observations of intergalactic hydrogen by the Hubble Space Telescope. That work confirmed the large amount of gas being ionised. “It could have been that there was much more neutral hydrogen than we thought, and therefore there would be no light crisis,” says Kollmeier. “But that loophole has been shut.”

Now Kollmeier and her colleagues have run computer simulations of intergalactic gas and compared them with the Hubble data, just to be sure. They found that there is five times too much ionised gas for the number of known UV sources in the modern, nearby universe.

Strangely, their simulations also show that, for the early, more distant universe, UV sources and ionised gas match up perfectly, suggesting something has changed with time (Astrophysical Journal Letters, doi.org/tqm).

This could be down to dark matter, the mysterious stuff thought to make up more than 80 per cent of the matter in the universe.

The leading theoretical candidates for dark matter are weakly interacting massive particles, or WIMPs. There are many proposed versions of WIMPs, including some non-standard varieties that would decay and release UV photons.

Knowing that dark matter in the early universe worked like a scaffold to create the cosmic structure we see today, we have a good idea how much must have existed in the past. That suggests dark matter particles are stable for billions of years before they begin to decay.

Theorists can now consider the UV problem in their calculations and see if any of the proposed particles start to decay at the right time to account for the extra light, says Kathryn Zurek, a dark matter expert at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. If so, that could explain why the excess only shows up in the modern cosmos.

If WIMPS aren’t the answer, the possible explanations become even more bizarre, such as mysterious “dark” objects that can emit UV light but remain shrouded from view. And if all else fails, there’s even a chance something is wrong with our basic understanding of hydrogen.

“We don’t know what it is, or we would be reporting discovery instead of crisis,” says Kollmeier. “The point is to bring this to everyone’s attention so we can figure it out as a community.”
https://www.newscientist.com/articl...-making-the-universe-too-bright/#.VEqZmYeZWdV
 
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Why would God say he crested light before He crested the sun?---Well that is obviously against the known facts and therefore for 1000's of years it has been against known observable science.{snip non sequitur}

You didn't answer his question. Why would God leave evidence that contradicts a literal interpretation of Genesis?
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Two worlds, two different streams of evidence.

MoewMeow.jpg
 
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