Just Curious -

[Bushido216]

- I was wondering exactly what was the huge importance of believing that Mary was a continued virgin? Is it necessary for Mary to be pure the entire time or is it a knee-jerk reaction to the Reformation?

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

It is something passed down from the Early Church as fact

 

[Axion]

To some of us it begins to seem that it is a major part of the faith of some protestants that the Virgin Mary wasn't a Virgin! Why is this so important to them?

The church always taught that Mary remained a Virgin all her life until some disputatious persons, at the time of the reformation in the 1500s sought to challenge the teaching. But even then the leaders of the Reformation like Luther and Calvin strongly defended Mary's virginity.

The pressure to deny that Mary remained a Virgin came from people who wanted to reject everything that was taught by Catholicism and not explicitly stated in the Gospels and letters of the New Testament. In order to dent Catholicism, they tried to prove that Catholicism contradicted the Bible. So they took the words "brothers of Jesus" that appear in the gospels, and from this tried to make the case that these "brothers" must be sons of Mary (although the Bible does not say this), and that therefore the Church contradicted scripture!

Of course they ignored the fact that in the language of Palestine at the time "brother" meant "any kinsman", rather than sibling, as it does in English. They ignored the possibility that these were half-brothers, sons of Joseph. And they ignored the strong scriptural evidence that these brothers" were actually cousins of Jesus, being children of Mary, the wife of Cleophas/Alphaeus.

But they weren't really interested in these facts. Their main interest was in attacking the Catholic Church, and in trying to "prove" that it contradicted scripture.

 

[Swoosh]

Its significance is that it shows just how holy this woman really was. She gave birth to Christ for crying out loud! Just how many of us can say we would honestly be content with living our entire lives as virgins? Mary's virginity should serve as an example of holiness that we should all strive to achieve.

God bless,
Swoosh

 

[Phoebe]

Personally, I don't think it really matters. My salvation does not hinge on Mary.

Just my oppinion.

 

[Swoosh]

My salvation does not hinge on Mary.

Your absolutely right. Your salvation does not hinge on Mary. But that does not mean it is worthless. Just because you move out of your house and live on your own now does not mean that your Mother is trash now, does it? Sure, you don't rely on her to do your clothes, wash the dishes, and make dinner any more, but that doesn't mean she has lost her significance.

Edit to add: Just because you are not living under the roof with her in it does not mean she cannot pray for you anymore! I for one am thankful for any of the prayer buddies I can get. Especially when their son is God.

God bless,
Swoosh

 

[Phoebe]

[/color][/size][/font]

Your absolutely right. Your salvation does not hinge on Mary. But that does not mean it is worthless. Just because you move out of your house and live on your own now does not mean that your Mother is trash now, does it? Sure, you don't rely on her to do your clothes, wash the dishes, and make dinner any more, but that doesn't mean she has lost her significance.

Edit to add: Just because you are not living under the roof with her in it does not mean she cannot pray for you anymore! I for one am thankful for any of the prayer buddies I can get. Especially when their son is God.

God bless,
Swoosh

Which is why I see no point in bashing this belief.

 

[Swoosh]

Just clarifying, Phoebe!

-Swoosh

 

[Phoebe]

Just clarifying, Phoebe!

-Swoosh

Okay!

 

[Maximus]

Personally, I don't think it really matters. My salvation does not hinge on Mary.

Just my oppinion.

Somebody slap me!

Your salvation does not hinge on Mary?

Think of it:

No Mary, no Incarnation.

No Incarnation, no salvation.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was absolutely essential to God's plan of salvation.

Honoring her does not detract from the glory due her Son; in fact, just the opposite: it enhances it.

 

[raptor13]

Somebody slap me!

Your salvation does not hinge on Mary?

Think of it:

No Mary, no Incarnation.

No Incarnation, no salvation.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was absolutely essential to God's plan of salvation.

Honoring her does not detract from the glory due her Son; in fact, just the opposite: it enhances it.

hmm.... never thought if that way. Good point.

 

[Veritas]

Somebody slap me!

Your salvation does not hinge on Mary?

Think of it:

No Mary, no Incarnation.

No Incarnation, no salvation.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was absolutely essential to God's plan of salvation.

Honoring her does not detract from the glory due her Son; in fact, just the opposite: it enhances it.

Consider yourself slapped!

Anyway, I do agree with you to a certain extent. I think it's much too easy to relegate Mary to the backwaters of salvation history. However, I think the point being made, was that Mary didn't die for us. On the other hand, her soul was pierced just as the Messiah's side was pierced. An interesting connection if you ask me.

 

[Debi1967]

When doing my HW I have now realized my self the signicance of using those of importance espescially Mary in order to ask for help that are Prayers are heard. She is the Vehicle. Many other religions use this practice. So it is not like we are the only ones to do soand they also say they are Vehicles used to help bring one closer through prayer and meditation. Personally, I see the importance of it. It is a tool to a better form of clearer communication to the Lord.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Yes, we must believe this. It is church dogma!

 

[Debi1967]

Yes, we must believe this. It is church dogma!

Ok am I allowed to ask a really stupid question right now?
What does dogma mean?
I need to get a dictionary....

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Ok am I allowed to ask a really stupid question right now?
What does dogma mean?
I need to get a dictionary....

From David Currie:

First is the Deposit, the Tradition and the Scriptures left to us by the Apostles. This is considered infallible and unalterable.

Next comes Dogma, meaning some point of faith that's so important that the Holy Spirit led a Council---or once or twice, a Pope---to declare it infallible and unalterable. Dogmas include things like the Trinity, the Hypostatic Nature of Christ, the Assumption of Mary, and whatnot.

Then comes Doctrine, which is important but not infallible, and it can be altered if a better understanding comes along. A classic example of this would be Limbo.

Then we have Discipline, like not eating meat on Fridays and celibacy, which can be imposed by the Church, and can be lifted by the Church. Not infallible, not unalterable.

And last, the bottom rung: Devotion. This is what the individual catholic decides to do insofar as prayers, meditations, and so on goes. Not infallible by any stretch, and certainly not unalterable. Tellingly, this includes 99.999999999% of all Marian activity, from Rosaries to novenas to Our Lady of Lourdes. You don't even have to believe in this stuff, and you can still be a good and faithful Catholic.

 

[Debi1967]

From David Currie:

First is the Deposit, the Tradition and the Scriptures left to us by the Apostles. This is considered infallible and unalterable.

Next comes Dogma, meaning some point of faith that's so important that the Holy Spirit led a Council---or once or twice, a Pope---to declare it infallible and unalterable. Dogmas include things like the Trinity, the Hypostatic Nature of Christ, the Assumption of Mary, and whatnot.

Then comes Doctrine, which is important but not infallible, and it can be altered if a better understanding comes along. A classic example of this would be Limbo.

Then we have Discipline, like not eating meat on Fridays and celibacy, which can be imposed by the Church, and can be lifted by the Church. Not infallible, not unalterable.

And last, the bottom rung: Devotion. This is what the individual catholic decides to do insofar as prayers, meditations, and so on goes. Not infallible by any stretch, and certainly not unalterable. Tellingly, this includes 99.999999999% of all Marian activity, from Rosaries to novenas to Our Lady of Lourdes. You don't even have to believe in this stuff, and you can still be a good and faithful Catholic.

OK thank you I appreciate that. That summed it up nicely. I think I am going to copy and paste that one. Quick too.

 

[FullyMT]

The funny thing is...I just had a brainfart and forgot what it meant too!

If I remember correctly though, its a doctrine which cannot be changed and is completely essential to Catholic belief...correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited in: the fact that the answer was said about 5 minutes earlier than this post doesn't help my case on how stupid I became during this post.

 

[Debi1967]

The funny thing is...I just had a brainfart and forgot what it meant too!

If I remember correctly though, its a doctrine which cannot be changed and is completely essential to Catholic belief...correct me if I'm wrong.

Edited in: the fact that the answer was said about 5 minutes earlier than this post doesn't help my case on how stupid I became during this post.

LOL Well at least you tried and if you look at the explanations then it wasn't that far off................................

 

[FullyMT]

Thanks! That helps me feel A LOT better!