Just Curious -

[Debi1967]

Thanks! That helps me feel A LOT better!

ME sorry I will be good now. Forgive me???? I was just kidding with ya. I like FullyMT.
Oh now I am making my own self sick sheesh....

 

[Miss Shelby]

Somebody slap me!

Your salvation does not hinge on Mary?

Think of it:

No Mary, no Incarnation.

No Incarnation, no salvation.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was absolutely essential to God's plan of salvation.

Honoring her does not detract from the glory due her Son; in fact, just the opposite: it enhances it.

I agree.

Michelle

 

[Polycarp1]

Those last couple of posts showing Mary's importance in God's plan of salvation are eminently valuable. Also, Jeffrey, could you lift the "Five-D" post out of this thread and make it a sticky? It's something Wolseley posted a long time ago elsewhere that helped clarify things for me immensely (and which I believe would help others as well), and I have trouble keeping track of it.

All that said, one quick comment on Mary: The Church has for centuries, long before Protestantism, taught the Doctrine of Mary's Perpetual Virginity. I have no problem with her doing whatever the Lord expected her to do. But I will offer the following comment to Catholics and Orthodox, as a way of viewing the alternate side of this issue: If Joseph and Mary lived as husband and wife in Holy Matrimony in the fullest sense of the term, having children of their own, would this somehow make Mary "impure"? A chaste woman is one who abstains from sex until marriage and from sex outside marriage. Rather, I believe that having our Lady and St. Joseph enter into marriage fully would serve to sanctify and exemplify what a Christian marriage is supposed to be in the fullest sense -- right down to having Christ as a part of one's household -- in a unique way. Sometimes, I think, we shy so far from sexual sin that we avoid recognizing that sex was in origin one of God's gifts to us, to be used rightly and to His glory. If Mary kept herself perpetually Virgin, that's fine with me, and a part of the Church's teaching -- but if she entered into married life with St. Joseph in the manner implied by Protestant readings of the apposite Gospel passages, that too is proper, and shows her again as example of how to lead a life in devotion to Christ, this time as the ideal wife and mother.

I say this not to argue against Catholic Doctrine, but to show the alternate reading in its true sense, rather than as a relegation of Mary to a minor role.

 

[FR0G]

Its significance is that it shows just how holy this woman really was. She gave birth to Christ for crying out loud! Just how many of us can say we would honestly be content with living our entire lives as virgins? Mary's virginity should serve as an example of holiness that we should all strive to achieve.

God bless,
Swoosh

Is it considered Holy to refrain from sex whilst married? If so, why?

 

[Phoebe]

My salvation does not hinge on whether or not Mary remained a virgin.

Christ and Him crucified saved me.

 

[JeffreyLloyd]

Is it considered Holy to refrain from sex whilst married? If so, why?

St. Paul thinks so:

"I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife... So then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry her will do better." - 1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38 -

St.Paul recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church so that they are able to focus entirely upon God and building up His kingdom.

Also, see Jer. 16:1-4 - Jeremiah is told by God not to take a wife or have children.

 

[ps139]

All that said, one quick comment on Mary: The Church has for centuries, long before Protestantism, taught the Doctrine of Mary's Perpetual Virginity. I have no problem with her doing whatever the Lord expected her to do. But I will offer the following comment to Catholics and Orthodox, as a way of viewing the alternate side of this issue: If Joseph and Mary lived as husband and wife in Holy Matrimony in the fullest sense of the term, having children of their own, would this somehow make Mary "impure"? A chaste woman is one who abstains from sex until marriage and from sex outside marriage. Rather, I believe that having our Lady and St. Joseph enter into marriage fully would serve to sanctify and exemplify what a Christian marriage is supposed to be in the fullest sense -- right down to having Christ as a part of one's household -- in a unique way. Sometimes, I think, we shy so far from sexual sin that we avoid recognizing that sex was in origin one of God's gifts to us, to be used rightly and to His glory. If Mary kept herself perpetually Virgin, that's fine with me, and a part of the Church's teaching -- but if she entered into married life with St. Joseph in the manner implied by Protestant readings of the apposite Gospel passages, that too is proper, and shows her again as example of how to lead a life in devotion to Christ, this time as the ideal wife and mother.

You make a good point, but I believe that Mary was a consecrated virgin. That is, when she said "How can this be, for I know no man," it meant she never had or would "know" a man.

 

[ps139]

From David Currie:

First is the Deposit, the Tradition and the Scriptures left to us by the Apostles. This is considered infallible and unalterable.

Next comes Dogma, meaning some point of faith that's so important that the Holy Spirit led a Council---or once or twice, a Pope---to declare it infallible and unalterable. Dogmas include things like the Trinity, the Hypostatic Nature of Christ, the Assumption of Mary, and whatnot.

etc..

Question: Where do the Catechism and papal encyclicals fit into this scheme?
For instance, I know the Catechism is the teaching of the Catholic Church. Is it all dogma? A mixture of dogma and doctrine? If the latter how do we diifferentiate between the two?

 

[KennySe]

All that said, one quick comment on Mary: The Church has for centuries, long before Protestantism, taught the Doctrine of Mary's Perpetual Virginity. I have no problem with her doing whatever the Lord expected her to do. But I will offer the following comment to Catholics and Orthodox, as a way of viewing the alternate side of this issue: If Joseph and Mary lived as husband and wife in Holy Matrimony in the fullest sense of the term, having children of their own, would this somehow make Mary "impure"?

Thank you for that perspective, Polycarp, and it would be an acceptable argument if the Catholic position were not the following.

Mary is the daughter of the Father.
She is the spouse of the Holy Spirit.
She is the Mother of the Son.

So, to be pure, she cannot have children with any other.