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Jumping Over Pews, Running The Aisles, Rolling, and Barking.

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PaulAckermann

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I remember studying in the seminary the First Great Awakening that happened here in America just before the American Revolution, led by John Wesley (founder of the Methodist church), Jonathan Edwards, and George Whitfield. The people would whip their heads back and forth so hard that it is recorded that one person died. And some people would bark at trees. The preachers would explain this as barking the Devil up the tree.

Weird but historically true.
 
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HisBelovedMelody

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I hate to rain on the parade here..but the 'barking' that was talked about in the Toronto Blessing...that was DONE and dealt with WAY back in the early 90's! WHY is it being brought up now?? Just curious. Plus I think that part of things DIED a long time ago...
 
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sunlover1

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Some Christians consider running aisles, and barking like a dog to be a form of worship.

Do you believe people barking like dogs, rolling, running, and jumping are forms of worship?
This sounds like the flesh to me.
But it's nothing I've ever seen.
:scratch:
 
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wmc1982

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lol, this is an actual bumper sticker
 

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ArcticFox

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if you don't mind me asking, were these unbiased studies? Sometimes people/groups/media will conduct studies for the sole purpose of proving something false and also twisting results to fit the end conclusion they had in mind before going into the study.

Who are the orginators of these studies you have read?

That's a very good point, and it is a very relevant question/criticism of studies, especially those dealing with religion.

The studies are a variety, most of which were conducted on glossolalia, which catches more attention than being 'slain in the Spirit.'

Check out these resources:

Author: Kildahl, John P. Title: The psychology of speaking in tongues, by John P. Kildahl. Edition: [1st ed.] Publisher: New York, Harper & Row [1972] Description: Book
xii, 110 p. 22 cm.
Author: Goodman, Felicitas D. Title: Speaking in tongues; a cross-cultural study of glossolalia [by] Felicitas D. Goodman. Publisher: Chicago, University of Chicago Press [1972] Description: Book
xxii, 175 p. 22 cm.

There are also numerous websites which will speak of case studies, but they are not guaranteed reliable of course, since it is, after all, the internet. However, find an internet article referencing a study that is listed from a respected journal or book.

Many of these individuals who conduct these studies want the results to reveal something supernatural, while others specifically desire to 'reveal them' as psychological only.

My interest, however, is not in their interpretation of the results, but in the results alone. If over 50% of the unbelieving, non-religious population can realistically produce 'speaking in tongues' on command to such a degree as to fool a believer in 'speaking in tongues,' what does that say about the gift? It says it probably isn't miraculous, because virtually anyone can do it.

It's also significant that there are numerous other religious groups, completely non-Christian, who produce glossolalia. There are also groups that do similar things as falling down, laughing hysterically, barking, twitching/shaking, etc., as part of their own religious experience, but they are NOT Christian.

These groups also have similar success/failure with their own attempts to 'prophesy' (often referred to in English translation of their activities as 'asking the oracles'). Like the Christian groups that practice the same, these groups have a high level of unreliability in their oracles/prophecies. If they ever do come true, it is often because the prophecy was either extremely obvious or simple, or it comes true only partially and contains many errors. They justify these errors by claiming that the 'connection' to the oracle is limited, or because the oracle will intentionally fool them, or because they misunderstood the oracle.

The success rate of modern day 'prophets' is a complete failure of the rule of a prophet given to us in Deuteronomy 18:22. If you read this section of Scripture, it give us confidence that we need not fear such a prophet; this gave me great Biblical comfort during a difficult time when I was being greatly pressured and even verbally 'attacked' by individuals from the church I mentioned in my previous post.

I hope I have clarified the studies. I would also encourage you to search for the studies for the success/failure rates of worldly psychics. I'm not sure what you know about it, but you might be surprised how the success/failure rate is similar: mostly failures, but if anything comes true, it often contains very simplistic description that could easily come true, or it is very partially true, containing numerous errors or key missing components.
 
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DeaconDean

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Although I believe in freedom of worship in whatever form suits the individual I would like to make 2 points.
1. In relation to handling snakes and drinking poison. Mk. 16:18 Any form of worship that puts individuals at harm should not be allowed. Mk16:18 is also misinterpreted. This scripture means that if by accident the apostles were bitten by a snake or given poison they would be immune.
2. Any form of worship that promotes sin should also be prohibited. The same would be true of deceptions like false healings and false prophecy. Behavior like rolling in the aisles seems harmless during the worship part of a service.

Seek

I never said it was right. That is just the way they interpret scripture. What gets me, is the fact that people want to say that worshipping the Lord consists of coming to church, singing a few songs, passing the offering plate, hearing the word preached, and a few prayers.

Someone should attend a Church of God service, and tell me that those who are praying, or speaking in tongues, are worshipping in the Spirit. (Jn. 4:24) While I was in seminary school, several of my friends went to a Church of God service. And one of my friends who is Baptist related to me that during the service the Pastor laid the Bible on his head and the next thing he knew he was waking up under the pew.

The point I'm trying to make is that because these people worship differently than we do, does mean it isn't right. Visit a Pentacostal/Holiness church sometime.

Before we criticize anothers worship practices, unless it is pagan in some manner, go visit, see if what is being preached is according to scripture.

Remember that right after Jesus ascended into heaven, the disciples were in the upper room praying and the Spirit descended upon them and:

"And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?" -Acts 2:1-8

Each person there had the Spirit come upon them, they started speaking in tongues, and each person understood what was saying. How many churches today still practice worshipping and speaking in tongues?

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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Melethiel

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I was at a bible study recently and during prayer time some people were shouting in tongues, some were singing softly, others were praying out loud, and I was playing my guitar softly. Basiclly everyone was doing what was comfortable for them during worship time. This is the way it should be. Denominations are divided over theology but we should be permissive and allow interdenominational worship in whatever manner each individual chooses. The right way of worship for me may not be the right way for you.
God Bless

Worship is not individual. Worship is corporate. The early Church worshipped in corporate liturgy, not everyone sitting together in the same room and doing what felt comfortable to them.
 
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Splayd

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I hate to rain on the parade here..but the 'barking' that was talked about in the Toronto Blessing...that was DONE and dealt with WAY back in the early 90's! WHY is it being brought up now?? Just curious. Plus I think that part of things DIED a long time ago...
While it's clearly identified with the Toronto blessing, it's hardly limited to it. As mentioned in the post before you, it was also associated with the "Great Awakening" as well as the Pensacola Revival and others to this day. It neither started nor ended with Toronto. Here's a quote about the Second Great Awakening from the 19th century:
The Second Great Awakening was ignited by the preaching of James McGready...
... The resulting conversion would occur in an outburst of shouting, weeping, falling, running, jumping, jerking, and barking.
from: http://www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/south/five.html
 
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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta

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There's a clip on YouTube that shows a woman on her knees bouncing around like a dog. Another woman is howling.

My favorite clip, Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland Pentecostal Bedlam. In this clip, the late Rev. Hagin goes around saying, "Drunk Again", and the parishioners nearly all fall back in their pews. One couple almost falls like asleep and falls out of their chair.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjujnAs-6tM
 
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DeaconDean

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Worship is not individual. Worship is corporate. The early Church worshipped in corporate liturgy, not everyone sitting together in the same room and doing what felt comfortable to them.

Worship in the meaning of coming together and worshipping Him together. But where do the scriptures ever say that everybody has to worship in the same fashion. Seems to me that I remember reading in the Bible where this exact same thing happened once and the Lord was not happy over it:

"Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. The ox knoweth his owner, and the ass his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. From the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness in it; but wounds, and bruises, and putrifying sores: they have not been closed, neither bound up, neither mollified with ointment. Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city. Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts? Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them. And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood." -Isa. 1:2-15

Everything had become a ritual. Everything was being done because the "Law" said it had to be done. There was no genuine worship of the Lord happening. That is why Isaiah was told to tell the people this. (Alex Motyer, Prophesy of Isaiah)

When everybody says you have to worship in one particular way, this history of Israel could happen again. Does the Spirit have to work the same way in each and every member? No. Does the worship service have to follow a specific set order? No. That is what is wrong in some churches. They have killed the Spirit.

A man in prayer once said: "Lord I went to a church today, and couldn't be comfortable. I wasn't dressed right. I wasn't rich enough. I wasn't what they wanted. What am I to do?" The Lord anwered back: "Son, don't worry, I've been trying to get into that church for years."

When we tell people that they can't worship that way because it's funny, or in our opinion wrong, could we not be guilty of:

"Quench not the Spirit." -1 Thes. 5:19

Just as the Spirit does not give the same gift to each member, the Spirit moves differently in each church.

God Bless

Till all are one.
 
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HisKid1973

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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta; My favorite clip said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjujnAs-6tM[/url]


Counter experiences will always come from satan where Christ is lifted up..But don't thow "throw the baby out with the bath water" and use them to limit what God can or wants to do...blessings in Christ..Kim
 
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Peaceful Dove

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As I said before, I have never seen these animal noises or behavior.
I have expeienced "resting in the Spirit" many times over the years and I have had folks slip to the floor when I was praying over them. In most of these cases, I was not touching them. I had a young Priest fall under the power of the Spirit when I was approaching him from behind, praying for him. He had asked for our prayer team for prayer but no one had arrived with him yet and he didn't know I was there. I have seen folks fall without someone to catch them and have never seen an injury yet. Often a healing might be associated with this.
I have seen Holy Laughter a few times but nothing at all like what has been described here. I have never seen the entire group laughing at once but I have seen it happen to an individual who is being prayed over. Usually there was a need for a healing of some kind and it was never loud or spectacular in any way.
I have experienced and have seen the gift of tears most often. It was usually associated with repentance or a deep healing of memories or inner healing. Much like Splayd described and it was indeed beautifu.
The one that I have had the hardest time dealing with on a personal level was being drunk in the Spirit. I have experienced it twice myself and most of my Charismatic friends have described the experience to me. It is usually associated with a very extreme feeling of Joy.
Very strange for me but I do believe it is Biblical.
Dancing is a very wonderful sort of Worship. I happen to love it. It use to happen at our large Conferences quite often.
Folks just Dance like David Danced, (but fully clothed, thanks).
These things can and do happen within proper order. Mostly they do not happen at Mass, maybe the tears. I have witnessed them mostly during Prayer Meetings.

It is hard to know how the Holy Spirit might lead. I think it is extremely dangerous to credit Satan with something that could very likely be of the Holy Spirit. We are warned about doing that so should not allow our personal feelings about something to lead us into that sort of sin.
I believe that Leadership has the responsibility of testing the Spirits and to maintain order.
What Splayd described with the girls was absolutely proper and was fulfilling his Leadership ministry. All to often, we are tempted to allow some of these flamboyant manifestations for the drama quality (although it is hard to admit that even to ourselves). We also are afraid of offending folks but that should never keep us from maintaining order.

This is a good forum. I am enjoying the things I have been reading.
 
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GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta

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:eek:

I'm not sure how that is edifying or pleasing to God.

I was wondering the same thing. The clip brings it to life, though.

If anyone hasn't checked it out, click on the link a few posts back.
 
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OnTheWay

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Worship is not individual. Worship is corporate. The early Church worshipped in corporate liturgy, not everyone sitting together in the same room and doing what felt comfortable to them.

Oh come on, some of us want to come to Church in our underware and read about next season's hocket sticks, or perhaps just stare at a wall and blither in gibberish for a good chuckle. Dang traditionalists like you are the ones ruining pants optional worship and I won't stand for it. If a priest wants to dress up in a clown suit and juggle instead of conduct a Liturgy then who are we to question it?:p
 
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HisKid1973

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Amen, I gyuess I have been guilt of this, But oh how freeing it is..[/COLOR]


I believe that Leadership has the responsibility of testing the Spirits and to maintain order.

Amen and this is why it is imperitive that we pray for those in authority over us.It is them who will give account for us..


This is a good forum. I am enjoying the things I have been reading.
I Agree.. Thanks for shareing...Grace and peace ..Kim
 
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sunlover1

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The one that I have had the hardest time dealing with on a personal level was being drunk in the Spirit. I have experienced it twice myself and most of my Charismatic friends have described the experience to me. It is usually associated with a very extreme feeling of Joy.
Very strange for me but I do believe it is Biblical.

I Haven't experienced any of these things myself but maybe it's:

Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Psalm 16:11
11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.



 
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