Judgment Day

[jax5434]

I am not dispensationalist. I am strongly post trib rapture. I would not mind being wrong.

God Bless
Jax

 

[CruciFixed]

If judgment day comes soon, I'm doomed to hell or eternal punishment or whatever. I don't think just because I got saved I get a free ticket to Heaven. I aint doing anything at all. I'm not even going to Church, praying or reading the bible. So....I'll be lined up with the atheists and what not...

I hate to be so uh negative but at least I know what I'm in for. I'm honest. I'm done for if it came to be tomorrow.

 

[MrJim]

Awsome link sister...I'm not sure I've ever read anyone explain it so clearly...




LOL...I don't mind being called a "dispy"....

If Ben were still around...I guess he might now consider I'm a dispensational-pretrib-literal-eternal-hellist old wine bag...ROTFL....



ps (no...I'll never stop getting a chuckle out of that )

I'm concerned about the "wine bag" part

 

[Nadiine]

There are extremes in EVERY view....

I personally like the simplicity of MacArthur's answer....

....as you aptly noted....things can get pretty distorted and convoluted when over-complication sets in and are taken to extremes....

Most of the pastor-teachers I've listen to...also use terms such as God's economy and refer often to God's covenents as you described....and I agree....all are appropriate in their own rights.

I was basically going to reply with the same viewpoint -
I enjoyed the simplicity too and there are PLENTY of people that
take doctrines to a furthest extreme in either direction.

There are different definitions of dispensationalism and I do find
some are definitely biblical and even logical.

Imo, the one thing that has to be guarded against is a sense of
judging when it comes to eschatology in general. People aren't
lost or saved on the details of knowing all things "end times".
We do have to accept the general fact that Jesus promised that
He WILL return and set up His Kingdom.

I heard that a few people have left the church I attend becuz
the Pastor wasn't "pre-trib". SO WHAT? He's an awesome
teacher, it's a shame to ditch someone just becuz they don't
hold an exact view in every end-time point.

 

[Nadiine]

I am not dispensationalist. I am strongly post trib rapture. I would not mind being wrong.

God Bless
Jax

Exactly - but I've come across plenty of people who seem to
love the idea of being persecuted & beheaded for their faith.

:o

 

[Nadiine]

Awsome link sister...I'm not sure I've ever read anyone explain it so clearly...




LOL...I don't mind being called a "dispy"....

If Ben were still around...I guess he might now consider I'm a dispensational-pretrib-literal-eternal-hellist old wine bag...ROTFL....



ps (no...I'll never stop getting a chuckle out of that )

Me too, I still laugh at that when I think about it.
Gosh but that was hilarious!
eternal hellist wine bag.

 

[Nadiine]

I see woofy up there!

*sorry, haven't been able to be on the forum
much the past few days....
you guys can consider it a nice vacation
=)~

 

[Zecryphon]

Awsome link sister...I'm not sure I've ever read anyone explain it so clearly...




LOL...I don't mind being called a "dispy"....

If Ben were still around...I guess he might now consider I'm a dispensational-pretrib-literal-eternal-hellist old wine bag...ROTFL....



ps (no...I'll never stop getting a chuckle out of that )

Where is Ben? I miss kicking his butt in debates about Universalism.

 

[Zecryphon]

If judgment day comes soon, I'm doomed to hell or eternal punishment or whatever. I don't think just because I got saved I get a free ticket to Heaven. I aint doing anything at all. I'm not even going to Church, praying or reading the bible. So....I'll be lined up with the atheists and what not...

I hate to be so uh negative but at least I know what I'm in for. I'm honest. I'm done for if it came to be tomorrow.

Why are you not going to church, reading your Bible or praying? That seems odd for someone displaying a Christian icon. But you won't be lined up with the atheists, because you believe Jesus took your sin and gave you His righteousness, right? You believe in the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ, right? You believe Jesus is God and died for your sins, right? If not, I'm not sure you're in the right place as you apparently can't confess the Nicene Creed, which is the SoF for this entire forum now, with a true and honest heart.

 

[Zecryphon]

I'm concerned about the "wine bag" part

Don't worry Jim, they'll share their wine bags with you. Me on the other hand... hands off mister!

 

[Zecryphon]

Exactly - but I've come across plenty of people who seem to
love the idea of being persecuted & beheaded for their faith.

:o

I think they love that idea because they want more than anything to be a martyr for the faith and believe they will return with Christ on the last day and receive a special crown in heaven. I think that desire may be driven more by pride than by true faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Cris413]

Me too, I still laugh at that when I think about it.
Gosh but that was hilarious!
eternal hellist wine bag.

Those were interesting times indeed....

Where is Ben? I miss kicking his butt in debates about Universalism.

I dunno...I haven't seen any of the Universalists that were so prevalent back then.

But then again...I don't stray to far from this forum these days...

 

[Zecryphon]

Those were interesting times indeed....


I dunno...I haven't seen any of the Universalists that were so prevalent back then.

But then again...I don't stray to far from this forum these days...

I sometimes wander into GT, and I haven't seen him there or Tavita or that other guy... can't remember his name right now. James I think it was. Would you consider CC to be your home forum then?

 

[Cris413]

I sometimes wander into GT, and I haven't seen him there or Tavita or that other guy... can't remember his name right now. James I think it was. Would you consider CC to be your home forum then?

I guess I would call CC my home forum.

I mean....a lot of what I see "out there" has been so far removed from Orthodoxy...it just boiled down to nothing but defending God and His word to the point of redundancy and it started to seem that all that was getting accomplished was giving platform to the promotion of bad doctrines...and nothing beneficial was coming from it.

God can defend Himself quite nicely.... He is more than able!

 

[Simon_Templar]

A comment on martyrdom,

I am reminded of Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp. Ignatius wrote several of his letters while he was on his way to Rome to be martyred. He makes it clear that he is looking forward to being martyred.
Polycarp, who was a friend of Ignatius was Martyred some time later. For a while he was being hidden by the Church and moved from place to place to try and avoid being arrested. Eventually, however, he simply turned himself in.

Also Paul who writes in the new testament that he was somewhat torn about whether he wanted to live or to die, and basically said that dying would be more gain for him, while living would be good because he'd be a benefit to others.

Speaking for myself, I want to live primarily because there are things in life I want to experience and want to do. Yet there have been times when I have actually wished that I could die for my faith. My reason is this... living for faith is hard, and I often don't do as good a job of it as I want to. I become a disappointment to myself and I am forced to question my own devotion and commitment.
If I were able to face martyrdom, there would be no more question, no more disappointment. There could be no greater proof of my love.

Connected with that, the few times that I have really experienced closeness with God I've found that although I enjoy life more, I cling to it less.

 

[CruciFixed]

Why are you not going to church, reading your Bible or praying? That seems odd for someone displaying a Christian icon. But you won't be lined up with the atheists, because you believe Jesus took your sin and gave you His righteousness, right? You believe in the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ, right? You believe Jesus is God and died for your sins, right? If not, I'm not sure you're in the right place as you apparently can't confess the Nicene Creed, which is the SoF for this entire forum now, with a true and honest heart.

I believe all that the Nicene creed says and I barely know of you so I wouldn't be too quick to jump to conclusions about you and you shouldn't about me. I've been practicing in the past just lately I've been down in the dumps. Its not like I don't think I should or want to I just know I'd go to hell if it came down to tomorrow or the next day because I haven't been very spiritually involved. I've been very meh lately and there are no excuses for it. I will admit and not to place blame but every time my husband and I are meant to go to Church he makes plans for other things. Sometimes he has to help his dad. Another time he wanted to earn studio time by working for someone. A couple of times our car was broken down and then one other time someone straight ripped up the baby's car seat.

When I was just coming into Christianity right after I had gotten saved I was all about it. Filled with joy, doing the whole song and dance. Now I'm just very out of it and I don't know how to explain it. My head and heart don't agree.

 

[Zecryphon]

I believe all that the Nicene creed says and I barely know of you so I wouldn't be too quick to jump to conclusions about you and you shouldn't about me. I've been practicing in the past just lately I've been down in the dumps. Its not like I don't think I should or want to I just know I'd go to hell if it came down to tomorrow or the next day because I haven't been very spiritually involved. I've been very meh lately and there are no excuses for it. I will admit and not to place blame but every time my husband and I are meant to go to Church he makes plans for other things. Sometimes he has to help his dad. Another time he wanted to earn studio time by working for someone. A couple of times our car was broken down and then one other time someone straight ripped up the baby's car seat.

When I was just coming into Christianity right after I had gotten saved I was all about it. Filled with joy, doing the whole song and dance. Now I'm just very out of it and I don't know how to explain it. My head and heart don't agree.

Brikkz, I'm not jumping to any conclusions about you. I'm going on what you've plainly said. Now one of your last lines here, where you say you're saved is the reason you will not go to hell, if judgment day happened tomorrow. God can not send a saved person to Hell. You have Christ as your savior. You don't earn heaven by works like reading your Bible, going to church or praying. You are given the promise of eternal life in heaven when you are given the gift of faith in Jesus Christ as your savior. And remember, you can always go to church alone. You don't need to go with your husband. If he thinks there are other things that are more important to do on Sunday than to honor and worship God that's something he's going to answer for, not you.

 

[Nadiine]

Brikkz, I'm not jumping to any conclusions about you. I'm going on what you've plainly said. Now one of your last lines here, where you say you're saved is the reason you will not go to hell, if judgment day happened tomorrow. God can not send a saved person to Hell. You have Christ as your savior. You don't earn heaven by works like reading your Bible, going to church or praying. You are given the promise of eternal life in heaven when you are given the gift of faith in Jesus Christ as your savior. And remember, you can always go to church alone. You don't need to go with your husband. If he thinks there are other things that are more important to do on Sunday than to honor and worship God that's something he's going to answer for, not you.

I actually have issues with this myself where I stay home if my
husband doesn't go that week or 2....
but he had to work 3 wks in a row and I finally had enough and
did go by myself.
I DO need to get there and go without not going for long.

So I know how it is with not liking to go alone, but I think
we have to just pull up our bootstraps at some point and
take the initiative whether it's comfortable /convenient
or not.

There's something about going that I think our spirits need.

 

[Zecryphon]

Yes, we need to hear the word of God and to receive the sacraments. That's the food that keeps our faith alive and strong.

 

[NorrinRadd]

...
On the more extreme end you will find dispensationalists who believe that there are literally two different gospels, one for Gentiles and one for Jews because the two groups are essentially handled under different dispensations. You will find some of these people claiming that certain books of the new testament apply only to the Jews, and others apply only to the Gentiles etc.

The most extreme I've run into claim that the gentile church dispensation didn't begin until Paul's conversion or baptism and as such everything in the gospels and in Acts which happens before Paul's conversion does not apply to gentile Christians.

People on this end of the dispensational spectrum deny baptism because the command to baptize came before Paul, and Paul made the statement that he did not baptize.

That's generally called, "Hyper-" or "Ultra-Dispensationalsim." Basically, it teaches that there may be helpful material anywhere in Scripture, but the only parts that apply directly are Paul's letters.

Another dispy view I've run across is that no one was born again or saved, including all the apostles, and all the people Jesus had baptized etc, until after Jesus was resurrected. Those I've met with this view tend to place the first born again experience in John 20.

Yes, that's my view. I don't consider myself Dispensationalist or non-Dispensationalist, but rather "Biblicist." I try to go where the Bible leads me, and the result is that I don't come close to fitting any particular "system."