Judging

[Tamara224]

Just as I suspected--you think that I am ganging up on you or whatever.

No, I don't think you're ganging up on me, Frank. I'm a lawyer, I thrive on good debates.

I just think you're so intent on proving your point that you're missing mine.

I hear what you're saying, I do. You're saying that the Holy Spirit will never contradict Scripture and so if our circumstances appear to make Scripture out to be false (e.g. we are not healed when Scripture says we should be) then we need to ignore our circumstances and keep believing in the Scripture.

I've been around this block more times than I can count, Frank. Please don't presume that I'm new to this game or that anything you say is new to me.

And so, I will again say:

Don't discount the possibility that the Holy Spirit isn't contradicting Scripture - but is contradicting what you think Scripture is saying.

I believe that when we are faced with circumstances in our life which seem to contradict Scripture, the very first thing we should do is pray about it and ask God to reveal to us whether we truly understand what Scripture teaches. And be humble enough to acknowledge that we may have misunderstood.

That, my friend, is where we differ.

Tamara was basically saying that I am finding scripture that supports my specific interpretation.

No, I'm basically saying that you are misinterpreting and misunderstanding Scripture. In doing so, you may also be doing some cherry picking. But that's not the main problem. The main problem is misinterpretation of the verses you address.

I disagree that, for example, physical healing is provided for (or guaranteed) in the Atonement.

But I am not. Please look again at what she has done to my simple example--this is the only part that she disagreed with:

b. Do you think HS may be leading you to NOT get your hopes up for healing? THIS DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THE WORD!!!

This is what I am getting at:

Never are we told to dispose of scriptural faith!!!
​

Again, please re-read what it is you are may be disagreeing with--you're jumping right over what I'm saying--you're missing what i am saying. You are may even be saying that you AGREE with it.​

I never said we dispose of Scriptural faith. And I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you use that phrase.

Like I said from the get-go: Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, correcting, rebuking and training in righteousness. And Scripture teaches us to place our faith in Christ alone - and not to lean on our own limited understanding of things.

 

[enoch son]

OK--Let's try your idea with the subject of healing:

Do you think that HS may be leading you to believe for healing? If so, this lines up with the Word.

Do you think HS may be leading you to NOT get your hopes up for healing? THIS DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THE WORD IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM!!!

*If you say it does, please DO produce some scripture TO THIS END (not off the subject).

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

So you read what you want to hear? Paul was sick in Galaians 4;13, there is Trophimus sick in. 2 Tim.4;20. Let alone the one's Paul said were sick and asleep there (Corth). So what word are you reading Gods or man.

 

[FrankFaith]

I believe that when we are faced with circumstances in our life which seem to contradict Scripture, the very first thing we should do is pray about it and ask God to reveal to us whether we truly understand what Scripture teaches. And be humble enough to acknowledge that we may have misunderstood.

That, my friend, is where we differ.

No, my friend, we do not differ there.

By saying what I just quoted from your post, you are saying that there are times when God does NOT want you healed. Maybe you don't realize that that is what you are saying.

Where has God ever told anyone that He didn't want them healed? Please read that question before you cloud it with a response(s) that do not apply. On the contrary, where has God ever led anyone to believe through His actions and words that Healing is ours for the taking, through faith? What do we have 100 to 1 for? 200 to 1? More?? What is the common thread in scripture regarding healing that you are completely ignoring?

Moreover, where has He ever warned that we should not get our hopes up, that we should purposefully stiffle our faith?

This conversation doesn't matter any more because you are absolutely closed to truth, yet still open to arguing a case based upon what you see and your mind confirms. Consultation with HS cannot be proven so it must be omitted--you're a lawyer, right?

Since you're a lawyer, and only 4% of lawyers claim to be Christians in this country, I will omit your response to my posts, as the overwealming thread of lawyers would only think they had a clue about whether God wants us healed according to scripture. This way you can go on thinking that you are correct by seeing that I just disregard the very few, if any, examples you can come up with that come close (in your mind) to answering my question (Where has God ever told anyone that He didn't want them healed?)

Have a wonderful day.

 

[JimB]

OK--Let's try your idea with the subject of healing:

Do you think that HS may be leading you to believe for healing? If so, this lines up with the Word.

Do you think HS may be leading you to NOT get your hopes up for healing? THIS DOES NOT LINE UP WITH THE WORD IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM!!!

*If you say it does, please DO produce some scripture TO THIS END (not off the subject).

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

How about would the Holy Spirit lead you to submit to God’s will, even when it is contrary to your own? Would that work?

~Jim

“We were made not primarily that we may love God but that God may love us, that we may become objects in which the divine love may rest ‘well pleased.’” ​

~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain​

​

 

[Tamara224]

No, my friend, we do not differ there.

By saying what I just quoted from your post, you are saying that there are times when God does NOT want you healed. Maybe you don't realize that that is what you are saying.

Frank, like I've said already and you would know if you had bothered to read my posts: I've had this argument so many times here at CF that I've lost count.

I do realize exactly what I'm saying: Sometimes God doesn't want us physically healed. Sometimes He allows us to be sick and doesn't heal us even when we ask; and sometimes (*gasp* and I'll get flamed for saying this) He even puts sickness on people Himself.

I'm not going to debate with you about it. That is not the topic of this thread, as I understood it... that's not what I've been debating in here - it's a red herring.

I'm not interested in going round in circles on this subject any more. I've debated it for nearly 2 years. And it's gotten really really old. Do a search for past threads in which I've participated and you'll see why I believe what I believe. I'm not interested in saying it all again.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[FrankFaith]

You've got a schizophrentic god.

 

[Tamara224]

You've got a schizophrentic god.

It always degenerates to name calling. Don't worry, I've heard worse from those who believe like you do. It still only makes me less inclined to conform to your views. And it still shows your argument for what it is for those with eyes to see.


And you spelled schizophrenic wrong.

 

[Cassidy]

If you hear from HS, and what you hear doesn't line up with the Word, you know that its not HS you're hearing from. This is how you should be evaluating what you think is HS leading.

It's like this....

I was brought up in the church who preached a false doctrine. However, I didn't know that the doctrine was false. They would have scripture after scripture which confirmed their doctrine. I was brought up believing that what the scripture says was actually what they were teaching. I really truly believed this!

But doubts would come into my head...questions...a lot of 'what ifs'. "What if they are wrong"...but I was taught to believe that if these doubts didn't line up with scripture...then they must be of the flesh. Time and time again we'd be taught that if we believed in anything that erred from scripture that we rebuke that and pray more. I was told that I wasn't reading enough...praying enough...that I wasn't walking in the spirit...all because I had 'doubts' that what they were teaching me was wrong. They saw it that I was rejecting scripture.

I felt trapped and suffocated in that church and one day...I ran away from home and I ran away from the church. I went out into the big wide world....and in my travels I had no other choice but to lean on God. No more church to lean on...or pastors...or parents or leaders....or youth leaders etc etc. And over the years I learned something very important....that all those 'doubts' that I was hearing all those years WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!!!

But why would the holy Spirit tell me things that go against scripture???

Because what I believed those scriptures to say...was not actually what those scriptures are saying at all! They were misinterpreted by those I trusted with my scriptural walk. But the HOly Spirit was stronger and pulled me out and away from the people that continued to make me defuse His voice.

So in a sense, frank, you are right...somethings are black and white like...Jesus dying on the cross to save. That's pretty straight forward and anything that refutes that fact is not of God. But then there are other scriptures and things that are being constantly misinterpreted OR have multiple meanings to fit your circumstances, and it is at your detriment if you do not listen the Holy Spirit EVEN if it SEEMS to contradict your understanding of scripture. Because if it seems to contradict scripture...instead of dismissing it, why not take it to the Lord, he may reveal to you where you are wrong

"Trust in the Lord with all you heart and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your path"

Are you allowing HIM (The Word) to direct your path or are you leaning on your own understanding of the word. (notice the difference in how I write "the word".)