Judge Orders Migrants to 'Learn English'

UberLutheran · Feb 15, 2005

MetalWolf said:
They should not be here in the first place. Don't let compassion overule your common sense.

- pick and harvest vegetables on our farms for very low wages
- clean the sinks and toilets in our buildings for very low wages
- clean houses for very low wages

I assume you like having fresh vegetables with your dinner; and I assume you like going into buildings which have clean sinks and toilets.

Would YOU want to have one of these jobs which "illegal immigrants" are taking (which we would not stoop to doing)?

rahma · Feb 15, 2005

HumbleMan said:
I grew up on the Mexican border. The myth of immigrants taking paying jobs from Americans is just that- a myth. I did not know a single American who graduated from high school, who spoke English, that would take most of the jobs the immigrants do. Everybody wanted to get into the workforce with at least an entry level job. I don't know a single one who said, I want to work on a farm, picking vegetables, getting paid in cash so my boss won't have to declare me. I don't know a single one who said, I'd love to be able to clean other peoples toilets at night because my boss don't want no one knowing he hired me.

Very true. I grew up far from the Mexican boarder, but we still had lots of contact with migrant workers. When they weren't in Texas, they were up in the midwest, doing grunt farm labor at very low (below minimum) wages, so low that the only american workers to also take those jobs were pre-16 year old teenagers who didn't qualify for other minimum wage jobs.

I also had a very touching experience with children of migrant workers. Because of the families moved depending on growing seasons, these kids never spent an entire year at a single school. Their families would pick up and move halfway across the country before the end of the school year, and the kids would miss out on a lot. The theatre troupe I was in in high school ran a summer camp for the kids of migrant workers, and at the end, these kids performed a musical for their families, sometime very few of them had had an opportunity to do. It was heartwarming to see these kids laugh and learn, just like any other kid in america.

trunks2k · Feb 15, 2005

MetalWolf said:
This is our country and we speak english. If you don't want to learn or speak english then get out and don't come back. It is about time we quit catering to the whiny liberals and sent the illegals packing.

Except the US doesn't have an official language. It just happens that the majority of us speak English.

While learning the language that the majority of people speak is a good thing there's a couple problems with that ideal. The main one being that the people who don't learn the language are too poor to do so. They may understand the language enough to make very basic communication but the jobs for poor migrant workers don't demand that they use the language. When you're picking fruit in a field all day with people that speak your native language and for ease of communication the guy in charge speaks in your language (or speaks to you just enough for you to understand what to do), you're not going to have much of a chance to pick up the language. And when you are working all the time to support your family, when are you going to be able to learn the language? Or better yet, how can you afford it?

Rochir · Feb 15, 2005

trunks2k said:
Except the US doesn't have an official language. It just happens that the majority of us speak English.

As I pointed out before also. I believe at one point, at the beginning of the 20th century, there was a debate of maybe making German the official language of the USA since at that time about 25% of immigrants came from Germany!

MetalWolf · Feb 15, 2005

UberLutheran said:
Adapting to conservative, Protestant Christianity? I'm a liberal Lutheran. Am I properly "assimilated"?

Becoming a Republican? I'm a liberal Democrat. Do I need to be "shown the door"?

Becoming "an American"? My paternal grandmother's ancestors were Cherokee Indians. They were "removed" from Georgia after 19th century Americans deliberately broke every treaty they had with the Cherokees, and sent packing to Oklahoma where they "got" to live on reservations (but hey, they got the vote in 1948!).

My paternal grandfather's ancestors were German, some of whom were Amish. We still have clusters of blood relatives in northern Indiana who speak German and refuse to use electrical appliances. Do THEY need to leave?

My maternal grandparents were French (thank you, God! ) Since our "official" policy is to "hate the French" since they wouldn't support our invasion of Iraq based on our insistance that Saddam was hiding weapons of mass destruction which he intended to use on us at any second (and it turned out the French were right about this, after all), do WE need to leave?

Pray tell: exactly WHAT is "American culture"? Granted, I grew up in the Paleozoic Period of the 1950s and 1960s when dinosaurs roamed the earth, oil was being created and the Beatles and the Hermans Hermits were popular -- but I seem to remember that Americans are described as "a melting pot of different cultures" in a land of "equal opportunity for all".

Surely things haven't changed THAT much in 40 years...

Matter of fact I think you would qualify to be put on the list to be deported.

trunks2k · Feb 15, 2005

MetalWolf said:
Matter of fact I think you would qualify to be put on the list to be deported.

Aaaaannnnddd. I'm done talking with you.

Rochir · Feb 15, 2005

MetalWolf said:
Matter of fact I think you would qualify to be put on the list to be deported.

What is your ethnical background? Where did your great grand parents come from? Just curious.

HumbleMan · Feb 15, 2005

MetalWolf said:
Matter of fact I think you would qualify to be put on the list to be deported.

Ok, that was uncalled for. You do not know Uber, or for that matter anyone else on this site. Your remark smacks of pre WWII nazism.

trunks2k · Feb 15, 2005

Rochir said:
What is your ethical background? Where did your great grand parents come from? Just curious.

Don't you mean "ethnic"?

rahma · Feb 15, 2005

MetalWolf said:
Matter of fact I think you would qualify to be put on the list to be deported.

Uber, I hereby offer you my apartment in Egypt, for your use when you are deported. Not very many people speak english in Mahalla, but they're all very friendly people, and they have fresh mango juice on every corner.

It's only 2 hours by train from Cairo, where I'm sure you could find a Lutheran church or 2.

MetalWolf · Feb 15, 2005

HumbleMan said:
Ok, that was uncalled for. You do not know Uber, or for that matter anyone else on this site. Your remark smacks of pre WWII nazism.

Go cry me a river why don't you.

rahma · Feb 15, 2005

I predict a certain newbie won't last long on these boards.

MetalWolf · Feb 15, 2005

rahma said:
I predict a certain newbie won't last long on these boards.

Do you think I actually care.

Travis · Feb 15, 2005

As has been stated earlier in this thread, the United States of America has no official language. Canada for instance is bi-lingual, it is documented in their laws that English and Frence are the official languages in their country.

I have no problem if congress passed an amendment to the Constitution stating that English is the official language. Until then, no one has a right to complain. English is no more the official language of America then German. So, for all of you complaining that they "Should have to learn English", write your Congressman and Senators, let them know you support a law recognizing English as the official US language. Until that law passes, anyone can choose any official language they wish in this country.

praying · Feb 15, 2005

MetalWolf said:
This is our country

Who is our?

UberLutheran · Feb 15, 2005

rahma said:
Uber, I hereby offer you my apartment in Egypt, for your use when you are deported. Not very many people speak english in Mahalla, but they're all very friendly people, and they have fresh mango juice on every corner.

It's only 2 hours by train from Cairo, where I'm sure you could find a Lutheran church or 2.

I'd be halfway tempted to check out a Coptic church, because that's supposed to be the most direct link to early Christianity; but also -- I've always wanted to see what a service in a Muslim mosque was like.

It's just that finding a mosque in Texas is like... well, you know.

Milla · Feb 15, 2005

Robert43 said:
Some consider it unorthodox and others say it is unconstitutional, but nevertheless a Tennessee judge has ordered some Hispanic mothers in child abuse and neglect cases to either learn English or risk losing their children.

Despite criticism from some legal corners, Wilson County Judge Barry Tatum, a first-term jurist and former attorney, has defended his decisions, saying he made his rulings because the women need to assimilate American language and culture for the betterment of their children.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/2/14/154728.shtml

If he has a program where one can learn English to the level of a native-speaking 4th grader in 6 mos., he should really market that! I mean, that kind of language accquisition would be unprecidented!

What is this judge smoking?

It's just an extremely thinly veiled attack on immigrants.

Danyr · Feb 15, 2005

yeah its sad, but this lady most likely came to this country illegally. I, for example am African, and most people have no idea the struggle one has to go through to come to the states. Compared to that hoping the boarder is a cake walk. And learning English is the least of immigrants problems...in fact it should be the first thing they do. Still this judge should have some mercy on the poor lady....just wanted a better life for her kid.

MaryS · Feb 16, 2005

Danyr said:
yeah its sad, but this lady most likely came to this country illegally. I, for example am African, and most people have no idea the struggle one has to go through to come to the states. Compared to that hoping the boarder is a cake walk. And learning English is the least of immigrants problems...in fact it should be the first thing they do. Still this judge should have some mercy on the poor lady....just wanted a better life for her kid.

I have a lot of sympathy for immigrants from countries that can't just walk or drive accross the border to live in the USA. The legal path to citizenship is truly a struggle and I commend those who take that route AND also see the advantage of learning English.

I live in Los Angeles County, California. When I go to my local medical clinic, there is a sign that says in English and 26 other languages "point to your language". Besides English, the only language I recognized as being European would be Spanish.

At the state/local levels, voting information and ballots come in a multitude of languages. Under federal law, voting info and ballots are available in English, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Tagalog, and one more that I don't recognize.

There are free community classes for people who want to learn English. Still, much of the local advertising mail and coupons that I get in the mail are in Spanish only.

Some of the members of the Federal Congress from California are trying to get laws passed requiring teachers to be multilingual (Democrat Rep. Maxine Waters-an African American is one pushing for this) At the state level, there are some African Americans in some school districts who are trying to find schools that teach in only English.

Redneck · Feb 16, 2005

At the state/local levels, voting information and ballots come in a multitude of languages. Under federal law, voting info and ballots are available in English, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Tagalog, and one more that I don't recognize.

Isn't speaking, reading, and writing English a requirement to become a United States citizen? Isn't a requirement of voting that one be a United States citizen?

If so, then isn't it a requirement for voting that one be able to speak, read, and write English?

Judge Orders Migrants to 'Learn English'

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