Judas - Forgiven or Not?

[mva1985]

This was started in another thread and we thought it best to move it. Check out Matt 27:4 and get back to this thread with your thoughts.

 

[sentipente]

[bible]Matthew 27:3-4[/bible]

 

[sentipente]

How does this text bear on the subject?

 

[OntheDL]

I think op meant to quote Matt 27:3&4.

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

This is where the Christiandom of today is: a perpetual state of coming to the cross: so logically according to this brand of christianity, Judah must have been forgiven, right? Then how else could they justify their teaching?

 

[Mankin]

Hmmm. Judas was obviously sorry for what he had done. He did not realize who Jesus was. He thought that Jesus was going to be a great military commander who would defeat the Romans and bring freedom to Israel. That is one reason why he betrayed Jesus. He did not think Jesus would be killed. He probably thought that Jesus would choose to begin his rebellion if he put Jesus into that situation, or Judas realized that Jesus was not going to overthrow the Romans. This is a very interesting question.

 

[sentipente]

MVA came to a somewhat strange conclusion that Judas "repented himsel," meaning that he did not ask for forgiveness, and since he did not ask for forgiveness he was not forgiveness because God won't forgive unless one asks for forgiveness.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Isn't there a verse that says Satan entered Judas before he betrayed Christ?

 

[Mankin]

Hmm. There might be. Lol, I am doing a lot of wondering today

 

[sentipente]

Isn't there a verse that says Satan entered Judas before he betrayed Christ?

Yes, there is but we need to remember that in that world every bad act was associated with Satan. This is why the sick were asked to seek anointing. Disease was associated with demon possession. The longer we insist that the Bible is a blueprint of life the more these questions will dog us. The gospels were written years after the events they recorded from the perspective of those who wrote them. Jesus did not tell them that Satan had entered Judas but that is the only reasonable conclusion they could come to. Why else would he betray the Son of God?

 

[OntheDL]

Isn't there a verse that says Satan entered Judas before he betrayed Christ?

I think it says Satan put the thought of betrayal in Judas.

But when we look at Peter and other disciples did pretty much the same. But the difference is that Judas took his life.

 

[OntheDL]

Yes, there is but we need to remember that in that world every bad act was associated with Satan. This is why the sick were asked to seek anointing. Disease was associated with demon possession. The longer we insist that the Bible is a blueprint of life the more these questions will dog us. The gospels were written years after the events they recorded from the perspective of those who wrote them. Jesus did not tell them that Satan had entered Judas but that is the only reasonable conclusion they could come to. Why else would he betray the Son of God?

Are you questioning the accuracy and reliability of the bible?

 

[Mankin]

Yes, there is but we need to remember that in that world every bad act was associated with Satan. This is why the sick were asked to seek anointing. Disease was associated with demon possession. The longer we insist that the Bible is a blueprint of life the more these questions will dog us. The gospels were written years after the events they recorded from the perspective of those who wrote them. Jesus did not tell them that Satan had entered Judas but that is the only reasonable conclusion they could come to. Why else would he betray the Son of God?

That could be true.

 

[Mankin]

I do not question the accuracy of the Bible though.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I think it says Satan put the thought of betrayal in Judas.

But when we look at Peter and other disciples did pretty much the same. But the difference is that Judas took his life.

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Which brings up some interesting questions, since we are told to confess our sins and KNOW they are forgiven. Judas didn't know he was forgiven, and couldn't live with that guilt?

I sometimes wonder if suicide is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

I was told growing up it is the unforgivable sin to commit suicide, but that would only apply if it is blaspeming the Holy Spirit, right?

 

[sentipente]

That could be true.

How many times have we said of someone, "He's got the devil in him." We don't know that to be true but it seems like it fits.

 

[sentipente]

I sometimes wonder if suicide is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

No one could take Jesus' life so He had to commit suicide.

 

[TrustAndObey]

You contend Jesus worked in cahoots with Satan to commit suicide? Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[OntheDL]

No one could take Jesus' life so He had to commit suicide.

This statement seems to imply Jesus blasphemed against the holy spirit.

 

[sentipente]

You contend Jesus worked in cahoots with Satan to commit suicide? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Only if you insist that suicide is the work of Satan. My point is that based on the definition of suicide that is the only way you can describe the death of Jesus who said, "I lay down my life. No man takes it from me."

Don't be too quick to throw accusations around. I am more able to show that you believe that God works in cahoots with Satan.

 

[sentipente]

This statement seems to imply Jesus blasphemed against the holy spirit.

Where is the evidence that suicide is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Aren't you the one who talks about assuming facts or is it DJ? I don't recall.