Juanita Bynum-pawn of Satan?

[honorthesabbath]

RND--I checked with the rules, and they don't say anything about making public a post that has been reported. The only thing we CAN'T comment on is how the mods ruled. IOW--we can't complain about their decisions. Which I don't agree with--but thats the rules for now and we must abide by them.

 

[RND]

RND--I checked with the rules, and they don't say anything about making public a post that has been reported. The only thing we CAN'T comment on is how the mods ruled. IOW--we can't complain about their decisions. Which I don't agree with--but thats the rules for now and we must abide by them.

No sweat HTS.

 

[catlover]

Nice HTS. I saved that.

If Native American's had stories and thoughts like these it is hard to imagine that they lived without the Holy Spirit.

 

[honorthesabbath]

If some think that there is no place in the body of Christ for this type of preaching, then you are greatly mistaken.

AT

Hey---my QQ's is working again--strange! But anyhoo--who's preaching are you referring to Juanita's or Hyveth's?

 

[FreeinChrist]

RND--I checked with the rules, and they don't say anything about making public a post that has been reported. The only thing we CAN'T comment on is how the mods ruled. IOW--we can't complain about their decisions. Which I don't agree with--but thats the rules for now and we must abide by them.

Actually, the staff has been given the discretion to remove posts about reported posts and comments made about being reported and who they think reported them under a few rules:

Use the brain God gave you. Think before you post. Think about how your post may affect someone else.

Flaming, baiting, trolling, or feeding trolls is not allowed. This also applies to groups. In other words, play nice, don't hurt others, nor call them names.

and

Threads which are off topic for the individual forums are not allowed, and substantial derails of threads are not looked upon in a favorable fashion

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hey---my QQ's is working again--strange! But anyhoo--who's preaching are you referring to Juanita's or Hyveth's?

The on and off again bugs are getting a bit annoying.

 

[honorthesabbath]

The on and off again bugs are getting a bit annoying.

Boy ain't that the truth. At first when it happened I thought I had just forgot to use it. But then in a reply right after that--I KNOW I hit the QQ button and again--no quote! So right after I go to the Report Bugs thread and come back-it starts working. Sort of like right after you make the doctor's appointment and the pain goes away! ROFL!

 

[honorthesabbath]

Actually, the staff has been given the discretion to remove posts about reported posts and comments made about being reported and who they think reported them under a few rules:

Use the brain God gave you. Think before you post. Think about how your post may affect someone else.

Flaming, baiting, trolling, or feeding trolls is not allowed. This also applies to groups. In other words, play nice, don't hurt others, nor call them names.

and

Threads which are off topic for the individual forums are not allowed, and substantial derails of threads are not looked upon in a favorable fashion

See--this is what 'bugs' me--lol. It's like now the mod's have the power to rule that ANYTHING came be a flame, or a troll or whatever. It's like the guidelines are terribly blurred and the members cannot know which side of the line their toes are on.

I've seen some pretty bad calls since the report threads went private again and the rules went south.

 

[Loveaboveall]

Honor, you are about twelve years behind the times on this with your outrage. It's no secret, and never has been, that Hyveth dresses provocatively sometimes. You think this is news?

Neither her employing conference or her church has any issues with it, so what makes you think your gripes will amount to a drop in the bucket with her?

She has faced detractors and attacks worse than anything you can produce for years, and she is still there standing, senior pastor of one of our largest and most prestigious churches, laughing in the faces of all her Trad haters.

So, complain all you want about her clothes. She will still be pastoring and you will still be complaining years from now.

Is dressing provocatively a good thing? Do you really believe this is something to be bragging about? I just don't see how this jives with God's word. What is the point of provocative dressing except to draw attention to yourself and your, um, physical characteristics. Shouldn't worship be about God? Please explain to me your thoughts on this subject so I can understand your position better, I am really confused with how you uphold this kind of dress as a badge of honor.

 

[AndrewK788]

Is dressing provocatively a good thing? Do you really believe this is something to be bragging about? I just don't see how this jives with God's word. What is the point of provocative dressing except to draw attention to yourself and your, um, physical characteristics. Shouldn't worship be about God? Please explain to me your thoughts on this subject so I can understand your position better, I am really confused with how you uphold this kind of dress as a badge of honor.

So am I.

 

[NightEternal]

Well, as much as I don't like wasting my time responding to Trad posts, I will humor you just because I have nothing else to do right now.

Is dressing provocatively a good thing?

I see nothing wrong with a woman being proud of her body and accentuating it if it is worth accentuating.

Also, unacceptable 'provocativeness' is in the eye of the beholder. Where you draw the line is much different from where I would draw it.

As for Hyveth, I have never seen her wear anything I would find offensive. If people are so worried about her cleavage and how low cut her shirt is, maybe they just shouldn't be looking there and probably listening to the sermon instead? Just a thought.

Do you really believe this is something to be bragging about?

I bragged about Hyveth's accomplishments in spite of the hate and opposition she recieves from the right-wing fundamentalists. That's it.

As far as her appearance, all I said is that she does dress provactively and her church and conference has no issues with it. I have no issues with it, because it does not cross the line for me.

If you consider that boasting, that's your call. I was just stating a fact.

I just don't see how this jives with God's word. What is the point of provocative dressing except to draw attention to yourself and your, um, physical characteristics.

A person can dress tastefully sexy. It is possible. My wife is 5'11" with long blonde hair and a killer body. She wears skirts that are above the knee. Fine with me!

And if drawing attention to one's beauty is a crime, then Solomon should have been put in prison for the whole book of Song Of Songs!

Shouldn't worship be about God? Please explain to me your thoughts on this subject so I can understand your position better, I am really confused with how you uphold this kind of dress as a badge of honor.

First of all, have you even seen Hyveth in person and had a chance to look at her wardrobe? You are going off the information of one poster who has a bias against her and she got her information from a hateful fundamentalist website. All of this is based on the opinion of Vance Farrel, a man who I would not give the time of day as far as his archaic opinions on modesty!

Hyveth dresses fine IMO and I get really tired of people slamming her for being herself.

It was always my experience in High School and College that people who hated and attacked the attractive people the most were the ones who usually looked like something the dog left over.

 

[NightEternal]

And as far as Honor comparing Hyveth to a completely nude model working on a laptop, get a grip woman. That is not even a fair comparison and you know it!!

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=44489447&postcount=5

 

[Loveaboveall]

Well, as much as I don't like wasting my time responding to Trad posts, I will humor you just because I have nothing else to do right now.

Is dressing provocatively a good thing?

I see nothing wrong with a woman being proud of her body and accentuating it if it is worth accentuating.

Also, unacceptable 'provocativeness' is in the eye of the beholder. Where you draw the line is much different from where I would draw it.

As for Hyveth, I have never seen her wear anything I would find offensive. If people are so worried about her cleavage and how low cut her shirt is, maybe they just shouldn't be looking there and probably listening to the sermon instead? Just a thought.

Do you really believe this is something to be bragging about?

I bragged about Hyveth's accomplishments in spite of the hate and opposition she recieves from the right-wing fundamentalists. That's it.

As far as her appearance, all I said is that she does dress provactively and her church and conference has no issues with it. I have no issues with it, because it does not cross the line for me.

If you consider that boasting, that's your call. I was just stating a fact.

I just don't see how this jives with God's word. What is the point of provocative dressing except to draw attention to yourself and your, um, physical characteristics.

A person can dress tastefully sexy. It is possible. My wife is 5'11" with long blonde hair and a killer body. She wears skirts that are above the knee. Fine with me!

And if drawing attention to one's beauty is a crime, then Solomon should have been put in prison for the whole book of Song Of Songs!

Shouldn't worship be about God? Please explain to me your thoughts on this subject so I can understand your position better, I am really confused with how you uphold this kind of dress as a badge of honor.

First of all, have you even seen Hyveth in person and had a chance to look at her wardrobe? You are going off the information of one poster who has a bias against her and she got her information from a hateful fundamentalist website. All of this is based on the opinion of Vance Farrel, a man who I would not give the time of day as far as his archaic opinions on modesty!

Hyveth dresses fine IMO and I get really tired of people slamming her for being herself.

It was always my experience in High School and College that people who hated and attacked the attractive people the most were the ones who usually looked like something the dog left over.

You said she dressed provocatively... If you don't think her dress is provocative that is fine, I don't have a beef with your interpretation of what is provocative and what is not. But, if you think it is provocative than I wonder how you can think it to be apporpriate??

proˈvocative [-ˈvokətiv] adjective

likely to rouse feeling, especially anger or sexual interest
Example: provocative remarks; a provocative dress

You said she dressed provocatively and you gave her props for it... According to the common definition of provocative this would mean she is arousing sexual interest by her dress. This is why I asked you to explain why you were defending her dress and how it could jive with what Jesus says here...

Matt 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

If she is dressing provocatively, by definition, she is trying to elicit sin in a man's heart. By this she is no better than the woman Solomon writes about here...

Proverbs 11:22 [As] a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, [so is] a fair woman which is without discretion.

and then there is the wisdom of this...

Proverbs 31:30 Favour [is] deceitful, and beauty [is] vain: [but] a woman [that] feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.



If you do not view this woman as dressing provocatively that is fine, but if you do deem her dress provocative how can this be an honorable thing?

 

[NightEternal]

You said she dressed provocatively and you gave her props for it...

I did no such thing. I gave her props for defying the Trad haters and rising to the top of her field.

I have no burning desire to be a cheerleader for sleazy clothing and that is not what I was doing.

Read the post again.

Furthermore, I never denied that she dressed provocatively anywhere. I am openly admitting it. She dresses provacatively some times, but in a good way that is tasteful.

Look again at this line from my post in response to yours:

A person can dress tastefully sexy. It is possible.

You continue to take Honor's word for this and want to portray Hyveth as some flaming floozie who dresses like a streetwalker.

And I am telling you I have seen her many times and she has never dressed like that.

And finally, I could really care less what you consider 'honorable' or if you think I fall short of that definition.

Last I checked, I had only to answer to God, not you and your puritan standards.

Her church is fine with it. Her conference is fine with it. I am fine with it.

Why the need to ride this hobbyhorse of yours into the ground as if she would care a whit about your opinion of her attire?

 

[JonMiller]

So he wants us to be holy because we are already holy? Is that what she was saying? Let me just get the facts straight before I continue...

This is what Paul says. We are made holy by Christ, does that mean we should continue to sin? No!

JM

 

[JonMiller]

As far as Hyveth's theology goes, I have never met or seen a pastor that I completely agreed with the theology of. Some I agree with more then others, but nowhere is it claimed that to be a true pastor of Christ you will never have any wrong understanding about God.

So while I don't like to go to pastors I disagree with a lot, I don't say that they are against God if they have a bit of bad theology.

I also think that we in the adventist church need to get more excited for Christ. There is a time to have thoughtful conversations about God and who He is. There is also a time to jump up and down excitedly because He saved us, He blesses us, and He loves us.

My pastor is a bit charismatic I think. I like his sermons, although I don't agree with him always on all points:
http://media4.gswebmedia.net/calvary/Kinlock030808.wmv

Jon Miller
edit: I very much agree with where he leads the church.

 

[honorthesabbath]

This disturbs me a bit. I'm hearing people say that a pastor's 'theology' may be wrong, but as long as they look good or their presentation is 'lively', then they are acceptable. What ever happened to pure bible truth being presented?

As I have read the gospels for most of my life, I have not read one account where Jesus jumped up and down (how does one jump down?) or that he ran back and forth, gasping for breath and screaming at the crowds demanding wisdom to fall on them. As a matter of fact, many times we see Him SITTING and quietly talking his sermons. Or walking along some road and expounding the scriptures--yeah--the SCRIPTURES.

One more thing we should note; the bible says....

Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

Not saying that Jesus was ugly, but this text says there was no beauty--nope--no need or desire to expose His body parts to rile up the enthusiasm of the crowds.

 

[JonMiller]

Has there been any pastor or teacher, ,other then Christ, whose theology was 100% correct?

JM

 

[Loveaboveall]

Furthermore, I never denied that she dressed provocatively anywhere. I am openly admitting it. She dresses provacatively some times, but in a good way that is tasteful.

Look again at this line from my post in response to yours:

A person can dress tastefully sexy. It is possible.

Night,

read again the definition of provocative... How can someone dress in a way to arouse sexual desires, but do it in a good way? If you think her dress is acceptable that is fine, but if you think it is acceptable do you still think it to be provocative? Tastefully sexy, meaning you want men to look at your body but you don't go over the edge into whorish looking? To me this seems to be a contradiction in terms... but that is just my opinion. Doesn't Paul admonish women to dress modestly? Can you be modest yet provocative? Can you dress in an attempt to gain the desire of men yet be modest?


I am not taking HTS word about Hyveth. I am taking your word when you say that she has dressed provocatively! I have not seen her dress, I am taking your word for it that apparently she is good looking and dresses to accentuate her good looks, which unfortunately can light a fire of desire in men.

 

[NightEternal]

Read again the definition of provocative... How can someone dress in a way to arouse sexual desires, but do it in a good way?

Hyveth does not dress in a way that arouses sexual desire. This is not a Hooters girl we are talking about here.

If you think her dress is acceptable that is fine, but if you think it is acceptable do you still think it to be provocative?

You know, all of your semantic hairsplitting is getting annoying and is giving me a headache.

Yes I think it is provacative in a good way.

Yes, I think it is acceptable.

Why are you having so much difficulty accepting that someone might think differently than you do on this issue?

Tastefully sexy, meaning you want men to look at your body but you don't go over the edge into whorish looking?

I don't 'want' men to do anything.

Ever admired the esthetic appeal of a piece of Rennaisance art? Or appreciate the beauty of the female figure? Solomon sure did.

I can do both and not lust. It is possible you know.

My line is not your line. I thought we already covered this.

To me this seems to be a contradiction in terms... but that is just my opinion. Doesn't Paul admonish women to dress modestly?

Hyveth does dress modestly. Sexy does not have to mean immodest. That is your own baggage and repression you are attaching to the word.

Can you be modest yet provocative? Can you dress in an attempt to gain the desire of men yet be modest?

Yup.

I am not taking HTS word about Hyveth. I am taking your word when you say that she has dressed provocatively!

And you continue misrepresent and misunderstand what I mean when I say provocative.

I have not seen her dress, I am taking your word for it that apparently she is good looking and dresses to accentuate her good looks, which unfortunately can light a fire of desire in men.

That would be their problem, not hers. They are the ones who should have some semblance of control and not let 'admiration of beauty' cross into 'lustful desire'.