Joseph Prince interpretation of 1 John 1:9

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Don't mean to dismiss such an involved post, but this shows the slight of hand that you are engaged in:

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:7 (KJV)

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:10 (KJV)

Why do you quote verse 7 and verse 10 and leave verses 4, 5, 6, 8 and verse 9 out???

1 John 3:4-10
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
​

There are two persons being talked about here: the lost man and the saved man. The lost man is a practitioner of lawlessness and unrighteousness; The saved man walks in righteousness and does not sin in the eyes of God: because we have been born of God: we cannot sin.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Ok, the best biblical example I can think of is when the Lord led the children of Israel out of Egypt. He didn't just say to them "I see you as free". He did something tangible about it. He delivered them from captivity.

But it didn't stop just from their release from Egypt -- this "type" goes from the setting free to the entering of the Promise Land. The desert that Israel had to go through is a shadow of our lost nature and of hell. The promised land is a shadow of our salvation. The Israelites who did not cross the Jordan were a type of the decision that we must make to choose sinful ways or Gods' way. Because they did not cross does not mean they are lost, personally, but is a picture of choice.

The desert (or uninhabitable place) is also seen in the atonement (Lev 16) as the place where the Israelites sins (and thus ours) are taken to and disposed of. We see this in Jesus, when He died on the cross and descended into Hell -- He carried away our sins to the uninhabitable place.

But even here Jesus paid the price for our sin. The Holy Spirit is our helper Who comes after salvation to help us stay on the right road for sanctification. The Holy Spirit may lead us "away from" sin, but He does not lead us "out of" sin, for Christ already paid the price for sin. This is crucial to Joseph's message here.

In the same way, if someone is addicted to sin, lets say, for simplicity, drugs, can Jesus set them free from that?

Yes, of course.

Do we say to the drug addict, Jesus can set you free from that in the resurrection? Do we say to drug addict that Jesus has imputed freedom to you? Or do we stand with the drug addict in faith for them to be set free from drugs?

When we accepted Christ the bible tells us that our old man was crucified with Christ (Rom 6:6 - "the body of sin was done away with, that we are no longer slaves of sin.") Our baptism is a picture of our being resurrected with Christ. So yes, we are fee in His resurrection. In the Atonement all of our sins were paid for, and all or our griefs and sicknesses were too.

So the drug addict is not only forgiven of his addiction, but He is given a way out of it and has the Holy Spirit as a helper to find his way out. Scripture doesn't talk of "imputed freedom" but it does speak of "imputed righteousness." The newly saved saint is considered righteous -- in right standing: even though he may continue in his addiction for a short time. God is convicting him of the sinfulness of his actions (but as Paul tells us, his continued actions are not him but rather sin in him).

And finally, yes, we need to stand with the drug addict in faith, pray for them, give them the understanding that they are not alone but the Holy Spirit is with them to lead them out of the desert. And that there are many Christian friends who will give physical and emotional support while this person makes the journey.

This is the reason why I'm concerned about the 1John 1:9 message and why the Prince interpretation feels "watered down" to me.

Pastor Prince says that 1:9 is for the unbeliever so that he understands that if we confess, Jesus will, will, will forgive. I have heard him in interviews concede that 1:9 is also a reminder to the believer that his own sins have been forgiven, because he confessed. And the overall message of Pastor Prince, what God called him to preach: is the Gospel of Grace, the release from the Law and the importance that God Loves you and it is not up to you own efforts to stay saved and in His Grace. Again, I highly encourage you to get a copy of 'Destined to Reign' to fully understand the very important message that he has been called to preach.

 

[Alive_Again]

Yes, it is. And it has nothing to do with your works and everything to do with His Grace.

"Your" works in the Spirit are actually "His" works. You don't do them to be righteous. You do it to abide in His covenant of righteousness.

Righteousness is not conditional. It is not an agreement. It is imputed to you by God through Jesus Christ. You don't earn it, you don't work for it, you don't keep it. It is God's view of you as being in right standing, or being holy, and is ONLY granted you through the Blood of the Lamb.

The symbol of your righteousness is your robe. It is given to you spotless white. It can be spotted. You don't work for it as you say, but you do keep it. The cleansing is only by the blood of the Lamb. It is your wedding garment.

God understands who we are. He is sanctifying us; we don't sanctify ourselves. We do obey His principles and commandments.

He sanctifies us and we cooperate with that sanctification.

For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Lev 11:44 (KJV)

Although this is Old Covenant, it demonstrates the part man has to cooperate with the sanctifying work of God. Recognize the "be ye holy" thing? That still carries over. That's what you do.

Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God. And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the Lord which sanctify you.
Lev 20:7-8 (KJV)

They shall therefore keep mine ordinance, lest they bear sin for it, and die therefore, if they profane it: I the Lord do sanctify them.
Lev 22:9 (KJV)

His work is ongoing.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:26 (KJV)

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:17 (KJV)

Not by any works you have done.

That is the whole point of the rest. No burdens. No gathering. No sweating. They're not your works, they're His. They're entered into and walked out by grace entirely.

I said: You can break the covenant and be removed from His righteousness.

No you can't.

<Once we accept the GIFT we are covered by the Blood and this covenant cannot be breached.

[/quote]

If you are right, AA, then verse 6 says that one you fall from righteousness you are done. "(4) For it is impossible...(6) if you fall away, to renew yourself again to repentance." If you fall, you are lost. Some teach this is the blaspheme of the Holy Spirit (but the context Jesus uses to describe the blaspheme is clear, and it isn't this).

The Hebrews 6 thing is another context. One where a mature Christian after repeated dealings by the Holy Spirit, and is familiar with the word, gifts, and power of God chooses a life of sin. Their is no repentance for that believer. That is not what we're talking about. We're talking about defilement and the need for cleansing.

The Lord's appearance to Kenneth Hagin explained this one and it kept me in bondage for months when I first became a believer. The key here is that it is not referring to a baby Christian.

"not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works (repenting each time you sin -- and also of baptisms, laying on hands, etc.) Quit bickering about this, because if you were to sin such that you could be lost and in need of repentance (which can't be done!!)

You do repent each time you sin. The foundational doctrine of repentace is the need to repent and turn from sin and to walk in the light. Put faith in God that Jesus' sacrifice is enough and to awaken to righteousness. We are to awaken to righteousness and sin not. If we do sin, we have an advocate in Jesus. We do not need to offer Him up again as a blood sacrifice, like the blood of bulls and goats. He paid for it all, but only for the repentant.

You believe the 1 John scripture refers to unbelievers needing cleansing, but scripture does not say this at all.

Show me the scripture for that. Scripture indicates that a covenant can be breached.

This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:10 (KJV)

This is something that had to be done.

And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Gen 17:14 (KJV)

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen 17:19 (KJV)

It is everlasting. It is now done in the heart.

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Ex 19:5 (KJV)

And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient. And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord hath made with you concerning all these words.
Ex 24:7-8 (KJV)

Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Ex 31:16 (KJV)

The sabbath is perpetual and now is fulfilled in Christ. You can still profane the Sabbath/covenant.

But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;
And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:
Lev 26:14-15 (KJV)

Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the Lord your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the Lord thy God hath forbidden thee.
Deut 4:23 (KJV)

It can be forgotten too.

God won't forget though.

(For the Lord thy God is a merciful God he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
Deut 4:31 (KJV)

Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face. Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.
Deut 7:9-11 (KJV)

Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the Lord thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:
Deut 7:12 (KJV)

And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
1 Kings 19:14 (KJV)

And the covenant that I have made with you ye shall not forget; neither shall ye fear other gods.
2 Kings 17:38 (KJV)

Because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord their God, but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the Lord commanded, and would not hear them, nor do them.
2 Kings 18:12 (KJV)

And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me. But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.
Psalms 50:15-17 (KJV)

They kept not the covenant of God, and refused to walk in his law; And forgat his works, and his wonders that he had shewed them.
Psalms 78:10-11 (KJV)

For their heart was not right with him, neither were they stedfast in his covenant.
Psalms 78:37 (KJV)

Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant: thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
Psalms 89:39 (KJV)

To deliver thee from the strange woman, even from the stranger which flattereth with her words; Which forsaketh the guide of her youth, and forgetteth the covenant of her God.
Prov 2:16-17 (KJV)

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As I live, surely mine oath that he hath despised, and my covenant that he hath broken, even it will I recompense upon his own head.
Ezek 17:19 (KJV)

For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:27 (KJV)

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Heb 8:6-13 (KJV)

A covenant is still an agreement that must be kept.

Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:7-9 (KJV)

The first are the carnal ordinances kept in the strength of the flesh. The will of God in that day was to do carnal ordinances. The second is to do the will of God. First order of business in the covenant is to believe in Jesus and His blood sacrifice. This enables you to do this from the rest of God, in His grace. It is not of your own works, lest you boast.

 

[help_the_lord]

I didn't read all these posts but the one thing I have to mention that seems to align with what JP was saying is in the 2nd and 3rd letters from John he refers to himself as an elder in both.

This to me suggests he was implicitly talking to believers. However in the 1st letter I don't see any mention of that in the opening. It's also worth noting that he says "so that you may have fellowship with us," as if to suggest they were currently lacking that.

Theres are a few other little things like that which do help to substantiate Joseph Princes claim.

It's also worht noting that statements like this "Philp 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus" lead me to believe our role in santification is non existanct outside of faith.

Which is also amplified by passages such as this one *Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are santified*

Romans 6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sactification, and the outcome, etenral life.

which in my opinion connects with this one -> Romans 8: 29-30 For whom He foreknew He also predistined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and whom He predistined these He also called; and whom he called, these He also justified and whom He justified, these He also glorified.


Therefore our repenting doesn't create change but God who forknew us predesitned the change of mind and therefore it can be in accordance with this.

Romans 11:5 In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works *such as confessing ones sins*, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 

[Alive_Again]

It's also worth noting that statements like this "Philp 1:6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus" lead me to believe our role in santification is non existanct outside of faith.

That is absolutely correct! There is nothing we can do of ourselves to sanctfiy ourselves. It is the new man within us obeying what God writes on our hearts (His voice we hear by and through faith). It is all about cooperating with Him.

Which is also amplified by passages such as this one *Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are santified*

This points to Him not having to come down and do it again. Those who are sanctified. Those who are "in Him" or abiding "in Him". It was a complete work. We can go outside of this. It comes down to if we're one of those who are being sanctified.

Romans 6:22 But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sactification, and the outcome, etenral life.

It's no longer a bondage because of the overcoming power within us. Even though we're freed you can be deceived and go right back into it (as I certainly did and do). Surely cleansed and obedient and flowing with the law of God in our hearts the nature of eternal life is our portion.

which in my opinion connects with this one -> Romans 8: 29-30 For whom He foreknew He also predistined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and whom He predistined these He also called; and whom he called, these He also justified and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Both the predestination and the free will are BOTH true and it is was destined for us to be called. Our choice to receive Him by answering His "knock" on our heart and then to walk in His Lordship are essential.

Therefore our repenting doesn't create change but God who forknew us predesitned the change of mind and therefore it can be in accordance with this.

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works *such as confessing ones sins*, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Repentance qualifies you to receive the grace He willingly offers. He always has required it. If His people repent and turn from their wicked ways... That is the character of God.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)

It's the big "IF" again. He will forgive when we repent and then clease us. If we are already cleansed when we sin, their would be no unrighteousness to be cleansed from. The preceeding verse talks about walking in the light and being cleansed. We need to be cleansed. God knows those who are His. He knows those who answered the call to separate themselves (allowing Him to do the separation as you cooperate) and not be of the spirit of the world. That spirit is lustful, adulterous, and covetous. These are all qualities that endanger your relationship with God. I don't believe He is waiting to cast His beloved into Hell because you misspoke, or were tempted and fell, or offended someone (He could.). The goodness of God leads you to repentance (and cleansing). He is committed to visit our transgressions with the rod and it is up to us to respond. Our salvation is in His commitment to love us and to work with us to remain separated to Him and away from the gods that are in this world. He HATES idolatry, so it is in our best interests to be free from idols. The penalty for getting into trouble is a reaping of stuff that makes our lives harder. They can loose spirits to work and make our overcoming more deliberate. We can still go to Heaven and have these things working against us. If you find yourself gathering up oppressive spirits you will have to walk more deliberately to keep from going back into bondage. The bondage can keep you from hearing God's conviction, keep you in the realm of fascination with the things of the world, etc. It's very serious and God is on our side, but we MUST do our part to yield.

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2 Peter 1:4 (KJV)

By the divine nature in our spirits we can escape the corruption that is in the world through lust. But it is still our choice. After I got saved, so many of the pulls I had seemed to cease. Sometime down the road though, my girlfriend and I used to get together at her house. Of course I would witness to her and explain what was happening and the things that I was discovering. She sympathized, but left that to me.

Sadly, my visits with her had a lustful tone as I still loved her though it was in my heart to "remain" pure. The Lord would deal with me about seeing her, because it always seemed to lead to an occasion to sin. I had to choose the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit or my own flesh (we always have this choice). After tolerating this situation for a time and not knowing how to get out of it, I finally broke up with her because it grieved the Lord and we were unequally yoked. I was putting myself in harm's way. It was my choice. The leading of the Holy Spirit was clear. The conviction, inescapable. By walking in the Spirit (in His leadings), we are able to overcome (escape) the corruption that is in the world through lust. The choice is ours.

Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the Lord your God. And ye shall keep my statutes, and do them: I am the Lord which sanctify you.
Lev 20:7-8 (KJV)

The sanctifying sets you apart (you can't really do that except by saying "yes"). The holiness is your choice to walk with Him (your actions). Notice He tells you to do it on both ends. In the New Covenant, He does this through you and no getting rid of people in your life will accomplish this. He separates you (sometimes from the people in your life) by grace. He prompts you in your heart and by faith you obey and walk it out. The end result is that by faith, you are set apart for His service to know and experience Him.

He continues the process of sanctification by washing us with the water of the Word. We are sanctified by the truth of His Word. The sacrifice enabled this before God, and He continues the work in us and through us, as we cooperate.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

I didn't read all these posts but the one thing I have to mention that seems to align with what JP was saying is in the 2nd and 3rd letters from John he refers to himself as an elder in both.

This to me suggests he was implicitly talking to believers. However in the 1st letter I don't see any mention of that in the opening. It's also worth noting that he says "so that you may have fellowship with us," as if to suggest they were currently lacking that.

Another thought to add to this is that all the epistles were written and sent to churches (or believers) -- but we know that Paul and the other apostles talked to and about the unsaved in these letters. It is important to not only read a verse, but to understand all context: both local to the verse, the chapter, the book and the whole of scripture and not to apply personal presuppositions over the text of a simple verse, which can change meaning thus causing divisions in the body that need not be there.

 

[Alive_Again]

Another thought to add to this is that all the epistles were written and sent to churches (or believers) -- but we know that Paul and the other apostles talked to and about the unsaved in these letters.

Paul wrote at great length to believers about sin and the need to keep wicked spirits away from the church that would lead them into deception and sin.

Jesus warned the churches in the Book of Revelation about sin in the church and the judgment it would bring (as a whole). Jesus spoke about the Book of Life and the need to keep our garments undefiled (the righteousness of the saints - unspotted).

Although occasionally Jesus spoke to those under the Law and instructed them as a people under Law (and the Abrahamic Covenant), He spoke to "everyone" and it was clear His Words weren't just to those gathered there. They didn't just apply to those who weren't born again, but to everyone in all times.

Paul said a number of times about those who commit specific sins and what they will reap for doing it. The theme about God never changing and not being a respector of persons runs throughout the Bible.

God's character is revealed in the Psalms and that is under any covenant. David spoke under the anointing and what He said applies to us in context.

It is important to not only read a verse, but to understand all context: both local to the verse, the chapter, the book and the whole of scripture and not to apply personal presuppositions over the text of a simple verse, which can change meaning thus causing divisions in the body that need not be there.

I truly believe that the context of a verse applies to the letter that was being written. References are often made as fulfillments to other books, and in that case, it is accurate to refer to them. To take an isolated verse from say, Ecclesiastes and make a doctrine out of it that defies the entirety of God's character in scripture is what the enemy does.

God's character never changes although our way to Him is now direct. It is better to cause a little controversy with the intent of stressing the need to repent and to walk worthy than to see brothers and sister whom we love allow themselves to go into a position of some dishonor. Accountability puts a deliberate focus on your walk and leaves you not wishing you had realized this earlier (when standing before God after death).

May we all walk worthy of Him and the grace given to us.

 

[Alive_Again]

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
John 3:19 (KJV)

This can happen to anyone. That's why we must reverentially fear to remain in that rest of God by faith, having His nature flow through us by grace and not by works.

And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 21:27 (KJV)

There is the contrast. The defiled are not written in the book. They need to repent.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Rev 3:4-5 (KJV)

For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:6 (KJV)

For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:5-6 (KJV)

Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
Luke 13:26-27 (KJV)

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 13:41-42 (KJV)

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:12-13 (KJV)

That is why we must keep love alive! We must judge our fruits.

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2 Tim 2:19 (KJV)

And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
Mal 3:17-18 (KJV)

And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.
2 Tim 2:5 (KJV)

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1 Cor 9:24 (KJV)

But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
1 Cor 9:27 (KJV)

Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
Heb 9:1 (KJV)

Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:9 (KJV)

For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
Mark 3:35 (KJV)

He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
Micah 6:8 (KJV)

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1 John 2:15-17 (KJV)

There are hundreds of more verses to support this. We must walk in love (fulfilling His commandments), obeying His voice (love = doing what He says). There is great mercy for those who come boldly, but it must be obtained and it is NOT a permanent state of being.

 

[getsickcure]

Very inspirational. Admitting Sins are equivalent to salvation.

 

[Alive_Again]

Very inspirational. Admitting Sins are equivalent to salvation.

It is in believing, entering into and adhering to His covenant, doing His commandments, walking humbly, repentantly, and uprightly. It is about your heart condition and His covenant.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)

John is talking to the church, who commits sin. His Word is not in the world, but the church. Repentance is both beautiful and necessary.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

It is in believing, entering into and adhering to His covenant, doing His commandments, walking humbly, repentantly, and uprightly. It is about your heart condition and His covenant.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)

John is talking to the church, who commits sin. His Word is not in the world, but the church. Repentance is both beautiful and necessary.

Awesome verse.

I have confessed my sins, and He was faithful and just to forgive me my sins. He cleansed me from ALL unrighteousness, even the stuff I'll do tomorrow. I am of the church, and I commit sin. I repent of it to walk in God's will for my life. And I also believe:

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
​

...that now that I am born of God that His seed remains in me and I cannot sin -- he sees me through Jesus' Blood and He will not impute my sins to me again.

This isn't what I made up; it isn't something Joseph Prince made up; someone bigger than both of us said it: our Heavenly Father put it in His Book. It is Truth.

 

[Alive_Again]

I have confessed my sins, and He was faithful and just to forgive me my sins. He cleansed me from ALL unrighteousness, even the stuff I'll do tomorrow.

He paid for what you might do tomorrow. You're not cleansed of it though until you repent. Who walks through the dirt and does not need cleansing? Who can walk with spots and say, "I am clean!" You cannot.

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.

That you might have fellowship provides a clear understanding about fellowship. That is where you walk in agreement with God. Two cannot walk together except they be agreed.

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

It's about walking in darkness and walking in the light. If you're "in Him", their is no sin. "In Him" means walking in the light. It means to walk in covenant blameless and without spot or wrinkle. If you're obeying the laws God writes in your heart, you are "in Him".

If you say you are "in Him" and walk in darkness (This is the proof you can walk in darkness as a believer.) you're lying. So we can walk in deception.

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Only believers can walk in the light. "IF" we walk in the light and not walk in deception or darkness, then we have "fellowship". That's the pure explanation of having fellowship with God and with one another. The blood then cleanses us from all sin. That's the catch. It's right there in the Word. Sinners (in this case those not born again or "from above") cannot have fellowship with God. Those who sin are also sinners. They are called to repentance. Even those who lay hold on the covenant can sin and they are called to repentance.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:3-10 (KJV)

We obviously sin and if we say we do not, we deceive ourselves (again). If we lie, the truth is not in us. If we do sin, we can confess our sins and be forgiven of them. When you "reconcile" something, you put it right. If you become dirty or spotted, you must become cleansed. Only the blood will cleanse and only repenting and walking in the light will both cleanse and keep you cleansed. John is talking to the church because only the church can walk in the light.

I am of the church, and I commit sin. I repent of it to walk in God's will for my life. And I also believe:

That is good as far as your relationship with God is concerned.

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

... he sees me through Jesus' Blood and He will not impute my sins to me again.

Why do we need to be cleansed then by walking in the light? Do only sinners have to walk in the light (if I understand your take on the scripture?)

If you are abiding in Him, His nature is born through you and there is no unrighteousness "in Him". If you do not abide, your heart becomes hardened and your fruits come under the Law. You cannot walk in God's love on your own strength. It takes the divine nature to overcome the lust in the world. If (your seed) REMAINS "in Him", you cannot sin. You are free from the bondage and slavery to sin. You are birthing the kingdom. It is not a one time thing just because you were born again to enter into the kingdom.

For the reader who still suffers from repetitive sin: You can be delivered and it is wicked spirits that have bondages built in to our lives (at times, or at least until you're delivered of the ones you got into as an unbeliever). These can happen even though you are born again and the price has been paid for your freedom from sin.

You can be set free from these spirits that keep you from abiding, even though you are supposed to be free from the bondage of sin. These have to be removed and that is why the Word seemingly isn't true (about being set free). Their is deliverance.

 

[lordsknight]

Sorry I am a a few months late on this subject. I have read through most of this compelling thread and still have a few questions. I just saw J Prince share his brief answers on this passage on TBN and gurgled it which led me to this thread.

I don't think it matters how we label someone in order to lump them into a specific box of doctrines so that we can dismiss everything they have to say. I believe we are all in search of the truth. I certainly know that I am. That should be the litmus for each person anyway. I don't know that Joseph Prince is a follower from Rhema or not being that he is located in Singapore. And how about what God is doing in Singapore through his ministry Hallelujah.

Anyway, I am Southern Baptist just because I am. I have questioned several of the main line doctrines such as tongues, healings, baptism of the Holy Spirit, etc... In order to be a good SBC and make it to retirement you simply keep quiet or closeted and preach what the people want to hear which they have been hearing for 60 years. Don't rock the boat. All the education and programs in the SBC can't be mistaken can they?

Well, fortunately i don't care about retirement or what people think about me. I just want the truth and if they can't handle it I have no hesitation to walk away from the organization which forbids their missionaries to practice a private prayer language.

That said, here's my questions:
1) Who is John writing to specifically at that time?
He interchanges the words "you" and "we" in this letter several times.

2) He shows contrast in vs. 6 and 7, then again in vs. 8 and 9. he then sums it up in vs. 10. Who was he contrasting?

3) vs. 1 of chapter 2 is an obvious shift however what purpose do we need of the Advocate with the Father?

4) I would probably even suggest that verse 1 could split up and part A would conclude the thought and part B would begin the next thought.

Any thoughts???


By His Amazing Grace!

Bro. Mike

 

[now faith]

For the righteous Lord loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
Psalms 11:7 (KJV)

Those who do not walk uprightly are unrighteous.

Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
Psalms 15:1-2 (KJV)

That's pretty clear in any covenant.

The Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
Psalms 18:20 (KJV)

It's about being clean and we become clean by the blood of Jesus and we stay cleansed by walking in the light.

Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Psalms 45:7 (KJV)

It's a contrast and we're capable of either one.

But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children; To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
Psalms 103:17-18 (KJV)

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.
Psalms 106:3 (KJV)

The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.
Prov 11:5 (KJV)

Again, we can wear either hat.

As righteousness tendeth to life: so he that pursueth evil pursueth it to his own death.
Prov 11:19 (KJV)

Each bears a fruit that indicates your soundness.

Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness:
Isaiah 46:12 (KJV)

Ever been stouhearted since you've been 'saved'?

O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
Isaiah 48:18 (KJV)

Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Isaiah 51:7 (KJV)

He's talking about the obedient. The transgressor should fear for wrongdoing.

The wicked are those who do wickedness.

But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
Ezek 18:21-22 (KJV)

But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Ezek 18:24 (KJV)

I don't see how you work around this. Even though we are under the New Covenant, the nature of God does not change.

When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
Ezek 18:26 (KJV)

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Matt 6:33 (KJV)

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Romans 3:25 (KJV)

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 6:16 (KJV)

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Romans 6:20 (KJV)

It's the same now even though we are Christians.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Tim 3:16 (KJV)

Why do we need instruction?

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
James 2:20-24 (KJV)

It's a fulfillment of righteousness.

And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Matt 3:15 (KJV)

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1 John 3:7 (KJV)

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:10 (KJV)

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.
Psalms 106:3 (KJV)

God will not commune with sin, as Christians we receive the Holy Spirit, who is the spirit of God. If not by a dispensing of grace from Christ blood we would be separated from God. This context is not in the O.T. since it was pre Christ. So do we sin? How can Gods Spirt dwell with us? Amazing Grace

 

[now faith]

Ha ha brother mike I posted from last page, and we both have ended by Grace!

 

[Mediakira]

I have watched Joseph Prince for a year now. How good is his books? Just curious about it.

 

[lordsknight]

Hey Now Faith... I've been using that for years. His Grace is so Amazing...

 

[lordsknight]

So how about this passage:

Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Isn't this saying that our sin will not come before God anymore because His grace over abounds our sin?

It seems to me that I John 1:9 is referring to someone other than saved people because of the usage of the words "you" and "we" and what appears to be a hypothetical statement in verses 6-10.

I say that I have to lean towards Joseph Prince's analysis of this passage. I have been uplifted by his view of scriptures dealing with grace and righteousness. Still searching...

By His Amazing Grace!!!

Bro. Mike

 

[Rememberme]

I was just reading on a blog I ascribed to.Escapetoreality.org.He posted this morning a teaching of this.Much like Josephs Princes.I too am exploring this.I think there is more works going on in the church than we know.Therefore people do not feel worthy or righteous in Christ.Check out this site.He actually goes more in depth than Joseph Prince.This particular teacher Paul Ellis has a unique way of showing the word and who the medicine is for.Christian or non christian.Hope you check it out.I am still exploring.

Blessings

 

[dkbwarrior]

I have just become interested in this subject. Was watching Joseph Prince on Behind The Scenes on TBN yesterday, and heard him mention this. Then was listening to Creflo Dollar, and he was teaching the same thing. So apparantly this is a teaching that is gathering some momentum.

I have to say, that off the top of my head, I agree with his conclusions, but not the exegesis by which he arrived there. At least not in relation to 1 John 1:9. However, I wish to remain openminded, and plan on studying it out further.

The main point that he and Creflo seemed to both make for their interpretation was that it was impossible for the Christian to confess all their sins, as some we don't even know, or remember. And while I agree with his premise (leaving aside whether a christian can or cannot sin for the moment), I have to say that the same case can be made for his contention that it is for sinners. How can a sinner hope to confess their sins? On a scale of ease, I would say that it is far more possible for a chistian who is carefully watching their own behavior to confess a higher percentage of their sins than one who comes to Christ later in life, and may well not remember most of them.

In iether case, if we are interpreting the verse to mean that we have to confess all sin to be forgiven, then that needs to be applied equally to both sides of the argument.

For me personally, I never saw 1 John 1:9 as a requirement to confess every sin. But rather as an opportuinity to relieve myself of condemnation for something that I may have done that I knew was wrong when I did it. Confesssing it to God allows me to release it and accept His forgiveness, in such a case, rather than wallowing in condemnation.

I personally feel that the verse can be applied to either a christian or a non christian. I believe that the Holy Spirit could quicken it to either person in either state, for their benefit, in their particular circustance at that particualr time. In truth however, the epistles were written to the church. The simple fact that John uses the inclusive first person 'we' and 'our' in the verse seems to settle the fact for me, at least at first blush.

However, like I said, I am willing to be open minded. I will study it out in more depth, and then post more about it.

Peace...