John Wycliffe the Brave...

[PaladinValer]

This is why the Apostle's Creed ought to be a truly Ecumenical creed and be utilized in all Christian rites of Baptism and Chrismation/Confirmation.

Communion of the Saints means all, not just some. If people want to believe it means only a few, then they truly must believe Christ failed by their lips no matter how much they say they believe otherwise.

If the lips don't agree with the heart, then there's a serious theological problem.

 

[bbbbbbb]

It all depends on what is meant by saints and what is understood as communion. There are, and have been, several distinct understandings. The Apostle's Creed (so-called) fails to define it for us.

 

[PaladinValer]

That still avoids the true question at hand: does the veil of "death" have the power to sever that Communion?

What is the logical conclusion by the "yes" or "no"?

Yes ultimately means Christ failed.

No ultimately means that not only did Christ succeed, but that there truly is intercession.

What is fundamentally ignorant, misunderstood, or forgotten among Evangelical Protestants is that mediation and intercession in a theological context doesn't automatically mean salvific. It can, but only in the case of Jesus the Christ. Both Scripture and Tradition are chuck full of examples of intercessionary practice.

 

[MamaZ]

What bbbbbbbb said

 

[MamaZ]

Has anyone ever been in a place where everyone is talking to you at once? It is confusing. The passed on brothers and sisters clothed in their heavenly home cannot hear everyone who is talking to them all at once. They are not omnipresent..

 

[Dorothea]

Has anyone ever been in a place where everyone is talking to you at once? It is confusing. The passed on brothers and sisters clothed in their heavenly home cannot hear everyone who is talking to them all at once. They are not omnipresent..

I think we can't use our Earthily ideas of what Heaven is like, because we do not know what heaven is truly like until, God willing, we are there one day.

Incidentally, this reminds me of a man's story he shared with Frederica Matthews-Green on her podcast from Ancient Faith Radio. He said that when he asked St. Seraphim to help him pray to God, he said he saw a long chain from Earth to heaven, which represented the list of names that St. Serphim was praying for.

 

[Livindesert]

I think we can't use our Earthily ideas of what Heaven is like, because we do not know what heaven is truly like until, God willing, we are there one day.

Incidentally, this reminds me of a man's story he shared with Frederica Matthews-Green on her podcast from Ancient Faith Radio. He said that when he asked St. Seraphim to help him pray to God, he say a long chain from Earth to heaven, which represented the list of names that St. Serphim was praying for.

The Saints can pray for me if the wish too but I will not invoke them becuase I want to give God all of my prayers.

 

[Dorothea]

The Saints can pray for me if the wish too but I will not invoke them becuase I want to give God all of my prayers.

That's fine because they do pray for all on Earth, but if you are wanting them to pray something specifically to God for you (such as for my son's brain tumor to shrink or disappear all together), you must ask them specifically to pray for this. A couple years ago, I'd never asked any SAints or the Theotokos to pray for my son and my family because I didn't know how. When I got distressing news on my son's tumor back in Oct. 2007, I prayed all day to God. I then felt compelled to ask the Theotokos, St. Nectarios, and St. John the Wonderworker of San Francisco to pray for the healing of my son. Within an hour of asking them for prayers, a burden was literally (and felt) lifted off my shoulders, and my worries subsided so much, that at the next MRI and doctor visit, I was at peace, and the tumor had stopped growing, and the cyst it produced had actually shrunk significantly, which it had never done in the past. Glory to God, and thanks be to His Saints!

 

[bbbbbbb]

That still avoids the true question at hand: does the veil of "death" have the power to sever that Communion?

What is the logical conclusion by the "yes" or "no"?

Yes ultimately means Christ failed.

No ultimately means that not only did Christ succeed, but that there truly is intercession.

What is fundamentally ignorant, misunderstood, or forgotten among Evangelical Protestants is that mediation and intercession in a theological context doesn't automatically mean salvific. It can, but only in the case of Jesus the Christ. Both Scripture and Tradition are chuck full of examples of intercessionary practice.

To use an analogy as weak as it may seem, if I were to move to the jungles of Borneo where I would have no internet or telephone service, would my connection to God be severed? I think not. Would my connection to my brethren in Christ here be severed? It would, indeed, for all intents and purposes. If everyone who has heard my name should decide to pray and ask my intercession for them I would be quite unable to hear their prayers, much less intercede for them to God.

Am I able even now to hear others' prayers should they be offered to me? The answer to that is a resounding no. I have trouble enough focusing on one conversation at a time (echoing MamaZ), After death will I become a semi-god with powers of omniscience and omnipotence? The answer is a resounding no. The creature will never become the Creator or even remotely equal to the Creator. At best, we are made in the image of God, but we are not god(s) nor shall we ever be.

 

[jckstraw72]

a man appeared to St. Paul in a dream and asked for his help. this isnt normal, but by the Holy Spirit it happened and can still happen. so how do the Saints know our requests? the Holy Spirit. it has nothing to do with them being omnipresent, omnipotent, etc.

 

[PaladinValer]

The Saints can pray for me if the wish too but I will not invoke them becuase I want to give God all of my prayers.

Have you ever asked anyone a question before?

 

[MamaZ]

So the Holy Spirit announces all the prayers asked to the heavens?

 

[PaladinValer]

Prayer, in the Christian sense, is the language of the Church.

 

[narnia59]

So the Holy Spirit announces all the prayers asked to the heavens?

All prayer is in the presence of the entire assembly of the heavens. It is entering into the heavenly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:
22 But you have come to Mount Zion,http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-36 to the heavenly Jerusalem,http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-37 the cityhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-38 of the living God.http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-39 You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn,http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-40 whose names are written in heaven.http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-41 You have come to God, the judge of all men,http://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-42 to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediatorhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-44 of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled bloodhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/12.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-45 that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

Or to use St. Paul's analogy of the body of Christ, the little finger and the head don't separate themselves from the rest of the body and go off and have a private conversation.

 

[lionroar0]

So the Holy Spirit announces all the prayers asked to the heavens?

Since I'm not in heaven I don't know but all things are possible with God.

I do know by faith that those prayers are answered. According to God's will.

Evidence of things unseen.

 

[MamaZ]

So all prayer is announced to the heavenlies. All up there are omnipresent? Scripture tells us that our Father hears us in secret

 

[MamaZ]

Since I'm not in heaven I don't know but all things are possible with God.

I do know by faith that those prayers are answered. According to God's will.

Evidence of things unseen.

What prayers are answered

 

[Secundulus]

So all prayer is announced to the heavenlies. All up there are omnipresent? Scripture tells us that our Father hears us in secret

Scripture also tells us that the Angels carry our prayers to the Father.

“Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a golden censer; and much incense was given to him, so that he might add it to the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar which was before the throne. And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, went up before God out of the angel’s hand. ” (Revelation 8:3–4, NASB95)

 

[narnia59]

So all prayer is announced to the heavenlies. All up there are omnipresent? Scripture tells us that our Father hears us in secret

Do you have a Scripture that says our Father hears us in secret? I believe you are speaking about Matthew 6. In context us, Christ is telling us to not be praying, or doing good deeds for the purpose of being seen by others who will then reward our sense of vanity. This is hardly the context which we are speaking of here.

And the idea that saints must be omnipresent to hear our prayers is a red herring. They do not have to be present in every moment of time in all of space for all eternity at the same time(which is what omnipresent means). They simply have to already be in the heavenly city of Jerusalem. If you read the Scripture I provided from Hebrews, we come into their presence through prayer. Unless you know of another way we come into the heavenly city of Jerusalem.

 

[jckstraw72]

why do you keep insisting that they must be omnipresent?!?!?!!?!? does space even factor in to the heavenly reality?