John Wesley

[JM]

John Wesley's Concealed Letters- Pt 3 FINI - YouTube

 

[AndOne]

Not surprised....

There is no hope in a gospel that depends on man's will and not God alone to come to fruition...

 

[bbbbbbb]

John Wesley was a most peculiar man IMO. I find it a great pity that he has found a prominent place in Christian history, whereas George Whitefield, who was, by far, the greater of the two, is now virtually lost to Christian memory.

 

[Eddie L]

John Wesley was a most peculiar man IMO. I find it a great pity that he has found a prominent place in Christian history, whereas George Whitefield, who was, by far, the greater of the two, is now virtually lost to Christian memory.

I get goosebumps when I read Whitfield, who, IMO, would rather not have a prominent place in Christian history.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

John Wesley's Concealed Letters- Pt 3 FINI - YouTube

One word....

...sad.

 

[JM]

Wesley called Toplady a 'chimney sweep' and Toplady wrote that Wesley was 'guilty of Satanic shamelessness...of uniting the sophistry of a Jesuit with the authority of a pope.'

 

[gracegreciagracet]

Of course John Wesley is famous. Although he did not believe in Jesus at first, he believed later. He had done so many good deeds. He was very generous and he is one of the founders of the Methodist church. God used John Wesley to save a lot of souls. In comparison to many Christians nowadays, he is many times better. There are many Christians that are selfish and not generous. He has set a good role model for us.

 

[twin1954]

John Wesley's Concealed Letters- Pt 3 FINI - YouTube

I am no fan of Wesley but the speaker in this video goes too far. He does what all subtle legalists do; he makes repentance a condition of salvation. Repentance is a fruit of salvation not a condition of it. It is no different than making self generated faith a condition of slavation.

 

[twin1954]

The speaker shows his legalism by setting himself up as the judge of other men. We are never told to examine others in the Scriptures we are told to examine ourselves whether we be in the faith.

 

[gracegreciagracet]

You are wrong. We can judge people based on the word of God in the bible but it is wrong to make judgment based on your own viewpoints. Repentance is not just a fruit of salvation but also a requirement for salvation.

Matthew 18:15-17 ESV

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Proverbs 27:5 ESV

Better is open rebuke than hidden love.

1 Timothy 5:20 ESV

As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 4:2 ESV

Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

James 2:10 ESV
For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.

Matthew 7:13-14 ESV
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Galatians 5:19-22 ESV
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

 

[JM]

I take Wesley at his word.
quotes from John Wesley - YouTube

 

[twin1954]

I take Wesley at his word.
quotes from John Wesley - YouTube

We may judge his theology and come to the conclusion it is heretical but we have no right to judge the eternal state of the man. I do not question the providence of God in allowing Wesley to reach such a prominant place even though I consider his theology damnable. I thank God it isn't left for me to judge.

 

[JM]

Again, I take Wesley at his word.

 

[gord44]

Spurgeon mentioned that while he and Wesley were at theological odds, he looked forward to the day when he and Wesley would be united in truth, when theological arguments would no longer be important(after they died). Or something like that.

 

[twin1954]

Again, I take Wesley at his word.

JM, please don't misunderstand my comments. You know I hate Wesleyan theology as damnable heresey. You also know that I have little use for Wesley's writings. But the fact is that whether he was lost or not was decided well over a couple hundred years ago. And it really doesn't matter what we think about his eternal state.

My comments were an expression of my concern that folks see and know legalism when they see it or hear it. It is extremely easy to be influenced by a legalistic spirit especially when we happen to agree with the legalist.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Repentance is not just a fruit of salvation but also a requirement for salvation.

Conditional election is not only unbiblical but maketh no sense. A question I ask, even my own father, to such a notion, is, how about the Christian who dies with unrepented sin? For example, let's consider a Christian who has been a Christian for most of their life, let's say they have walked the walk and talked the talk most of their life, let's say toward the end of their life they slip up and sin, and die unexpectedly and suddenly of a heart attack, without a chance to ask for forgiveness before they die. Will the Lord then damn to Hell this person? This person who lived to serve the Lord and always do what is right in the eyes of the Lord, is then plucked from the flock for lack of grace? Will the Lord not have mercy on His own children? Will He rather look at their righteousness than the righteousness of Christ, the blood of Jesus shed for the remission of their sins? We give the wrong impression when we go to putting requirements on salvation, we make God's love out to be just like man's, that is conditional. Praise God His love is not like man's, His love is unconditional, and when He looks at His people, He sees the righteousness of Christ, rather than the filthy rags of self-righteousness. You see, it's not that repentance is a requirement of salvation, it's a fruit of the Spirit, it's an evidence of a true Christian, it is a sinners response to the grace and mercy of God. Finally, true repentance is not something we even have in and of ourselves, it is from God, in ourselves we fail miserably with our token repentance, our insincere repentance, our double-mindedness, our pity parties, and every other kind of counterfeit. To even have the desire, well that is a gift from God, to produce the kind of conviction from the Spirit to, not only confess but to act upon it and be devoted to obeying Christ.

 

[gracegreciagracet]

I read this testimony about Pastor Park who was brought to heaven and hell and the following is a quote from the testimony. You can read the rest by clicking on the link.

People in Hell say three statements.
First, it is too hot and they feel like dying. (Luke 16:24)
Second, they are so thirsty and feel like dying.
Third, you will hear many asking for water. (Zech 9:11)

It is eternal! Many people say we are free in Christ and they live their lives as they desire. I asked the angel, “Those who are in here, what have they done?” The angel answered, “The first group is unbelievers.” Those who had not evangelized to their own family must repent!

"The angel continued, “The second group is those who believed in Jesus, but did not repent of their sins.” We must repent of our sins and must confess to the Lord. We must not sin. Just giving lip service is not repenting. With a contrite and earnest heart, we must repent!"

Heaven & Hell, 1000 to 1, Reverend Park, Yong Gyu