John N. Oswalt, NIVAC or NIV Application Commentary on Isaiah 14 and the Underworld

[Job 33:6]

That's like asking me, if I ever watched Dracula.
The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch; Hebrew: סֵפֶר חֲנוֹךְ, Sēfer Ḥănōḵ; Ge'ez: መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ, Maṣḥafa Hēnok) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the great-grandfather of Noah.
The older sections of 1 Enoch are estimated to date from about 300–200 BC, and the latest part (Book of Parables) is probably from around 100 BC.

Have you watched Dracula? Most people have. It's a pretty popular film. Or are you one of those Christians that avoids watching Harry Potter because it has magic in it?
Book of Enoch - Wikipedia

Do you use counterfeit money?
I don't need to use counterfeit money in order to know real money.
I don't need to read apocryphal writings, when I can read the truth. Especially, when the truth is written centuries before the counterfeit... That's right - fake.

Well, in the new testament, Jude and Peter both reference the book of Enoch. So it's your loss if you don't want to understand the Bible.

 

[Job 33:6]

@Job 33:6 So, the reason you think Enoch is a myth is because you read a book that is a fake, and full of myths? Really?

The book of Enoch is myth. It is extrabiblical. Nobody is talking about Enoch, the person. I'm referring to Enoch, the book. Also known as 1 Enoch.

 

[CoreyD]

You're having a hard time understanding that the underworld can be spoken of in different ways depending on context and what book of the Bible that you're in.

I'm not having a hard time understanding that how you interpret the Bible, based on your beliefs, does not make the Bible say what you believe.
Did that get that?

Let me know, because if it did not, you won't get anything else.

It's like saying "well I know what a tree is, and trees don't talk".

Isaiah 14:7-8 ESV
[7] The whole earth is at rest and quiet; they break forth into singing. [8] The cypresses rejoice at you, the cedars of Lebanon, saying, ‘Since you were laid low, no woodcutter comes up against us.’

Then you read about trees talking, and instead of acknowledging what the Bible says, you're just repeating that trees can't talk.

In the Bible, they do talk, in poetry in particular. And you can read it right there. There is no denying it.

Do trees literally talk?
Does wisdom literally have a voice?

If your answer to these questions, is no, then your argument is pointless, because the figurative language, and metaphors used do not relate to a literal world that you are imagining.
No, I am not having a hard time understanding why you are still arguing, but I think you are having a hard time understanding the reason why you are.

Sheol being the common grave of humans do not change because it's spoken of as awakening the dead, figuratively, or rising up to meet one, figuratively.
Are you following?

 

[Job 33:6]

Here are some passages for reference.

We know that Jude directly references Enoch. He even named Enoch in the book of Jude.

Jude 1:14-15 LEB

[14] And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about these people, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with tens of thousands of his holy ones [15] to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they have committed in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

So hopefully everyone agrees so far. It's there. You can see Enoch named point blank.

Now compare Jude to 1 Enoch (the Jewish myth)

1 Enoch 1:9
Behold, he comes with a myriads of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to destroy all the wicked, and to convict all flesh for all the wicked deeds that they have done, and the proud and hard words that wicked sinners spoke against him.

And Peter does the same thing.

And both Peter and Jude identify the Genesis 6 sons of God as angels.

Jude 1:6-7 LEB
[6] And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day, [7] as Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns around them indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in the same way as these, are exhibited as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Peter 2:4-6 LEB
[4] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but held them captive in Tartarus with chains of darkness and handed them over to be kept for judgment, [5] and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a proclaimer of righteousness, and seven others when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly, [6] and condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes, having appointed them as an example for those who are going to be ungodly,

And this narrative of Genesis 6 of course is what 1 Enoch is all about.

@CoreyD

 

[Job 33:6]

I'm not having a hard time understanding that how you interpret the Bible, based on your beliefs, does not make the Bible say what you believe.
Did that get that?

Let me know, because if it did not, you won't get anything else.


Do trees literally talk?
Does wisdom literally have a voice?

If your answer to these questions, is no, then your argument is pointless, because the figurative language, and metaphors used do not relate to a literal world that you are imagining.

I've repeated time and time again, that this is figurative language.

The fact of the matter is, this is what the Bible says. Is it not?

If you say yes, that trees do talk in the Bible, in poetic terms, then we agree.

Sheol being the common grave of humans do not change because it's spoken of as awakening the dead, figuratively, or rising up to meet one, figuratively.
Are you following?

I never said that it did. In fact, I've stated many times that, obviously you can't grab a shovel and dig down to sheol.

But that doesn't change what the Bible plainly talks about. It does in fact talk about talking trees. And it does talk about spirits in the underworld welcoming a fallen king.

 

[CoreyD]

Have you watched Dracula? Most people have. It's a pretty popular film. Or are you one of those Christians that avoids watching Harry Potter because it has magic in it?
Book of Enoch - Wikipedia

I do not watch Satanic movies, no.
They are a product of God's enemies.
Do you watch them?

Well, in the new testament, Jude and Peter both reference the book of Enoch. So it's your loss if you don't want to understand the Bible.

No. The Book of Enoch was not referred to, and neither was the Greek mythology.
Why do you want to believe these lies? Aren't lies from Satan?

 

[Job 33:6]

No. The Book of Enoch was not referred to, and neither was the Greek mythology.
Why do you want to believe these lies? Aren't lies from Satan?

I'm sorry, but you're wrong:

John N. Oswalt, NIVAC or NIV Application Commentary on Isaiah 14 and the Underworld

That's like asking me, if I ever watched Dracula. The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch; Hebrew: סֵפֶר חֲנוֹךְ, Sēfer Ḥănōḵ; Ge'ez: መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ, Maṣḥafa Hēnok) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the...

www.christianforums.com

The biblical authors can reference whatever they want. Just like we can. You and I can talk about Greek mythology. We can talk about Dracula.

And you know what? It makes sense for us to do that. Why? Because it helps explain things.

And the new testament authors do the same thing.

The new testament authors can indeed reference pseudopigrapha. And there is no crime in that. In fact, they do it all the time.

 

[CoreyD]

Here are some passages for reference.

We know that Jude directly references Enoch. He even named Enoch in the book of Jude.

Jude 1:14-15 LEB

[14] And Enoch, the seventh from Adam, also prophesied about these people, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with tens of thousands of his holy ones [15] to execute judgment against all, and to convict all the ungodly concerning all their ungodly deeds that they have committed in an ungodly way, and concerning all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

So hopefully everyone agrees so far. It's there. You can see Enoch named point blank.

Now compare Jude to 1 Enoch (the Jewish myth)

1 Enoch 1:9
Behold, he comes with a myriads of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all, and to destroy all the wicked, and to convict all flesh for all the wicked deeds that they have done, and the proud and hard words that wicked sinners spoke against him.

And Peter does the same thing.

And both Peter and Jude identify the Genesis 6 sons of God as angels.

Jude 1:6-7 LEB
[6] And the angels who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling place, he has kept in eternal bonds under deep gloom for the judgment of the great day, [7] as Sodom and Gomorrah and the towns around them indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire in the same way as these, are exhibited as an example by undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

2 Peter 2:4-6 LEB
[4] For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but held them captive in Tartarus with chains of darkness and handed them over to be kept for judgment, [5] and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a proclaimer of righteousness, and seven others when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly, [6] and condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction, reducing them to ashes, having appointed them as an example for those who are going to be ungodly,

And this narrative of Genesis 6 of course is what 1 Enoch is all about.

@CoreyD

Are you paying attention?????????????????????
Where did Enoch come from, and what is the source of that information?

 

[CoreyD]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong:

John N. Oswalt, NIVAC or NIV Application Commentary on Isaiah 14 and the Underworld

That's like asking me, if I ever watched Dracula. The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch; Hebrew: סֵפֶר חֲנוֹךְ, Sēfer Ḥănōḵ; Ge'ez: መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ, Maṣḥafa Hēnok) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the...

www.christianforums.com

There is a reason you believe that strongly.
It's not a good reason.

 

[CoreyD]

The book of Enoch is myth. It is extrabiblical. Nobody is talking about Enoch, the person. I'm referring to Enoch, the book. Also known as 1 Enoch.

Right... and when was this book of Enoch writen?

 

[Job 33:6]

Right... and when was this book of Enoch writen?

Prior to the authorship of 2 Peter and Jude. Who are the new testament authors that referenced it.

Here it is, in case you missed it:

John N. Oswalt, NIVAC or NIV Application Commentary on Isaiah 14 and the Underworld

That's like asking me, if I ever watched Dracula. The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch; Hebrew: סֵפֶר חֲנוֹךְ, Sēfer Ḥănōḵ; Ge'ez: መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ, Maṣḥafa Hēnok) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Job 33:6]

Are you paying attention?????????????????????
Where did Enoch come from, and what is the source of that information?

Maybe you're not paying attention, Peter and Jude reference 1 Enoch.

See here:

John N. Oswalt, NIVAC or NIV Application Commentary on Isaiah 14 and the Underworld

That's like asking me, if I ever watched Dracula. The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch; Hebrew: סֵפֶר חֲנוֹךְ, Sēfer Ḥănōḵ; Ge'ez: መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ, Maṣḥafa Hēnok) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the...

www.christianforums.com

Perhaps you have selective vision or issues with your eyeballs?

 

[CoreyD]

Prior to the authorship of 2 Peter and Jude. Who are the new testament authors that referenced it.

That would be after the Torah? So Enoch, is refered to in the Torah?
That's not to be dismissed, and here is why. The Torah, Psalms and Prophets, refer to books writen that are not included in the Bible.
A fake that borrows from the Bible, will also borrow from these books, and therfore, what Peter and Jude wrote, need not come from a fake mythological corrupt book, but from those books.

Maybe you're not paying attention, Peter and Jude reference 1 Enoch.

I never read that anywhere in the Bible,
Since you didn't either, you are merely making an assertion, with no proof to support it.
In other words, you are making a claim with no foundation to support it.

Yes, Book of Enoch, was written over 1,000 years after knowledge of Enoch was penned, and knowledge of his death.
If you want to believe a book that as written over 1,000 years subsequent to its alleged author, or alleged biography,... especially one that copied from the Torah, you can, but it would certainly say quite a lot about what you are willing to believe.

I think you have already expressed how you view 2 Peter 1:21.
If these men wrote under direction of holy spirit, and needed to refer to a book that is inconsistent with the Torah, then the holy spirit isn't much use.
However, we know that isn't true, so it must not be true that Peter and Jude referenced this apocryphal book.

 

[dlamberth]

The Book of Enoch was widely read and was of importance to the Jewish community of those times. The consequence being with the first Christians being Jewish, Enoch was brought forward into the Christian community. So to me it's no surprise that Enoch was referenced by those first Lover of Jesus.

 

[Job 33:6]

The new testament authors also reference the pseudopigrapha myth, the testament of Moses, containing the "secret prophecies of Moses", as well:

In case anyone missed this:

John N. Oswalt, NIVAC or NIV Application Commentary on Isaiah 14 and the Underworld

That's like asking me, if I ever watched Dracula. The Book of Enoch (also 1 Enoch; Hebrew: סֵפֶר חֲנוֹךְ, Sēfer Ḥănōḵ; Ge'ez: መጽሐፈ ሄኖክ, Maṣḥafa Hēnok) is an ancient Jewish apocalyptic religious text, ascribed by tradition to the patriarch Enoch who was the father of Methuselah and the...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Zaha Torte]

Are you saying that without the body, one is not a dead soul?

I am saying that a spirit without being combined with a physical body is not a soul at all - but simply a spirit. Either unembodied or disembodied.

The only way that a soul permanently dies is for it to experience the "second death" mentioned in Revelation 20 - which is to be cast into the "lake of fire".

Only those who remain unrepentant through a lifetime of choices that led them to losing the inclination or ability to repent - or by committing the unpardonable sin - are those who will be cast into the "lake of fire" - which is the "second death" - being separated from God and His light forever.

I don't get that from the word nephesh.
Genesis 2:7 says "living nephesh: soul, life, self, person, heart, creature, mind, being

I believe it is clear from the Genesis account that Man was a reference to the flesh.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

¶ And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." (Genesis 2:7-8)

What God had formed was designated as Man even before He had breathed life or placed the spirit into the physical body - before he became a "living soul".

The physical body - alone - is not a living soul - it is not a life, self, person, heart, creature, mind or being - it is simply the physical body of Man.

The source that you provided offers great insight into how the Hebrews understood this word - nephesh -

"Usage: The Hebrew word "nephesh" is a multifaceted term that appears frequently in the Old Testament. It is often translated as "soul" or "life," but its usage extends to denote the essence of a person, their inner being, or life force. It can refer to the physical life of a creature, the emotional and spiritual aspects of a person, or the entirety of a living being. In some contexts, "nephesh" is used to describe desires, appetites, and emotions, reflecting the holistic view of human nature in Hebrew thought.

Cultural and Historical Background: In ancient Hebrew culture, the concept of "nephesh" was integral to understanding human identity and existence. Unlike the Greek dichotomy of body and soul, the Hebrew perspective viewed humans as unified beings. "Nephesh" encapsulated the totality of a person's life and being, including their physical, emotional, and spiritual dimensions. This holistic view is evident in the way "nephesh" is used to describe both humans and animals as living beings with breath and vitality."

It agrees with what I initially said - that the soul - or "nephesh" - is the combination of the spiritual and physical bodies - that Man is a unified Spiritual and Physical Being.

When we die physically - our spiritual bodies are separated from our physical bodies - and we are no longer "living souls" - but we will become so again as a result of the Resurrection of the Dead that will take place before the Judgment.

A being that is in existence is living. A being that is not in existence, is dead, but they are still alive to God, and that person is remembered and will be resurrected.

This makes no sense. The word "being" means "to exist". A being - by definition - always exists - otherwise it would not be.

I would need you to clarify this before I could properly respond.

What about angels? Are you saying then, that angels are not beings?

I don't know where you go this idea from.

The Hebrew word "malak" or "malach" - often translated as "angel" - is used to describe messengers - either mortal or divine.

Anything that can be designated as an "angel" is obviously a Being since they exist. I don't really know what you are talking about.

What does God give a body to, when one is raised from the dead, if it's not the person - soul, that has died?

The spiritual body is reunited with the physical body - becoming a "living soul" or the "nephesh" that your source spoke about.

1 Corinthians 15:42 says it is the dead that are raise up.

Yes - only those who have died physically are Resurrected.

Note, that it did not say the spirit, but the dead. What is raised up? Not the body. Not the spirit, but the person that has died - the soul.

A "living soul" is the combination of a spiritual and physical body - a "nephresh" - a unified Being.

Both the disembodied spiritual body - which had been waiting in the Underworld - the grave or Sheol - or even Hades - that had departed after the physical body had expired - is again reunited with the physical body - becoming a "living soul" or "nephresh" again.

In the same book of 1 Corinthians 15, all the resurrected are referred to as persons that will come to life.

Yes - the spirits of all people who have died will be reunited with their physical bodies and be lifted up in the Resurrection of the Dead - to become a "living soul" or "nephresh" again.

Some people think man has a spirit living in him, but does the Bible not say, that the spirit returns to God, who gave it - Ecclesiastes 12:7, and when God takes away the spirit, man dies - Psalm 104:29. What happens when God gives the spirit? They live - Psalm 104:30.

We all have within us in mortality a spirit that was placed into our physical bodies by God Himself - and the physical body dies when the spirit departs - yet the spirit is no longer considered a "living soul" or "nephresh" - because it no longer is the combination of a spiritual and physical body - so the Resurrection of the Dead reunites the spiritual and physical bodies - and we all again become a "living soul" or "nephresh".

That's how Adam came to live.

To be clear - Adam or Man - existed before God breathed life into his physical body.

Both his physical body was formed before God gave it life and the spirit later known as Adam also existed before the formation of his physical body.

Adam's spirit existed before his physical body was formed - but he did not become a "living soul" or "nephresh" until after God placed his spirit into his physical body.

Spirit is like breath, but more than that. Job 33:4
For the Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

The spirit is the little "I am" in all of us - that eternal part of us that came from God the Father. He is the father of our spirits. (Hebrews 12:9)

This verse is misrepresented, because
it is imagined that Jesus and the thief went anywhere but in the grave, on that day.

I didn't fully understand your comment. It seems as though you just shared your opinion - which is fine - but it does not prove that anything I shared was misrepresented.

You claimed that there was no need to accept the argument from authority fallacy - but you made an appeal to the scriptures - which is an argument from authority.

Peter claimed that the Lord Jesus Christ preached to the spirits in Prison after His death and the Lord Himself - if the Gospel can be believed - claimed that He was to go to Paradise upon His death.

The word is harpazó: To seize, snatch, take away by force.
No one can tell us what this Paradise is. Perhaps you can tell me.

Also referred to as Abraham's bosom - such as in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man - a place of rest for the faithful as they await the time of their Resurrection.

The gulf separating the righteous from the wicked was bridge by the Lord Jesus Christ upon His suffering and death - and He preached to the spirits in Prison and brought release to the captives.

Again, this scripture is misrepresented.
So many have their interpretations.

Then how can you claim that I have misrepresented anything?

Which verse in John 5 are you assuming?

Oop - I meant the epistle of John - so 1 John 5:4-5.

This same idea is later related in Revelation 2:26 and 21:7.

Tartarus. Persons claim this is a place for human spirits, but is that the case... or are these spirits the wicked angels that rebelled against God, in Noah's day.

You are confusing this verse with 2 Peter 2:4. 1 Peter 3:19 is not a reference to Tartarus or to rebellious angels, but to those who rejected Noah's words as he prepared the Ark for the eventual Deluge.

I think you misread that.

Based on what?

That's okay, but the rest of the dead not coming to life is not in reference to the first resurrection.

I don't understand this sentence.

One can be dead spiritually as well.

Correct - as I stated earlier. Yet that does not change the promise of the Lord Jesus Christ.

All will be Resurrected - yet those who are cast into the "lake of fire" will suffer the "second death" - which is to be separated from God and His light forever - to be spiritually dead forever - like Satan and those who followed him in rebellion.

This is not related to humans.
Prison for Satan would only mean being bound or restrained by God.
They are not related to the subject at hand, though.

What do you base this on?

The Greek word Hades, is translated as hell, pit, and grave, in some translation.
How do you know what hell is, if there is that much inconsistency?

What inconsistency?

How are any of these related to the underworld though. I don't think you explained.

The Underworld - the grave or Sheol - or even Hades - are references to the same thing - the state of the spirit of Man betwixt physical death and the Resurrection.

The spirit of Man will be subjected to either Paradise, Prison or Hell upon physical death - depending on the deeds done in the body - and they will remain in the Underworld - the grave or Sheol - or even Hades - until the time of their appointed Resurrection and subsequent Judgment.

 

[Zaha Torte]

@Job 33:6 So, the reason you think Enoch is a myth is because you read a book that is a fake, and full of myths? Really?

The man Enoch existed - but that does not mean the work we know as the Book of Enoch was actually written by him or is not myth.

Are you being this obtuse on purpose?

 

[Job 33:6]

The man Enoch existed - but that does not mean the work we know as the Book of Enoch was actually written by him or is not myth.

Are you being this obtuse on purpose?

After decades of holding discussions with YECs, I've come to find that whenever I have to ask that question, and I can't quite determine the answer, I tend to just walk away. Haha.

 

[Zaha Torte]

After decades of holding discussions with YECs, I've come to find that whenever I have to ask that question, and I can't quite determine the answer, I tend to just walk away. Haha.

All I know about the Bible and the age of the Earth is that the Bible makes no claim about it.

 

[CoreyD]

I am saying that a spirit without being combined with a physical body is not a soul at all - but simply a spirit. Either unembodied or disembodied.

Isn't this statement already presupposing a belief in a living spirit that needs a body.
The spirit which God gives, and takes away, is not unembodied or disembodied, according to scripture.
Psalm 104:29, 30; Job 34:14, 15; Psalm 146:3, 4; Ecclesiastes 3:19, 20; Ecclesiastes 12:7

Please note that Ecclesiastes 3:19, says both animals and humans have the same spirit.
All scriptural references from the very verse you quoted in Genesis 2:7 refer to the spirit like breath, that gives live. Not an unembodied or disembodied thing, like a ghost that roam about without a body, once someone dies.

That is not a Biblical teaching.

The only way that a soul permanently dies is for it to experience the "second death" mentioned in Revelation 20 - which is to be cast into the "lake of fire".

Many people believe that the lake of fire is actually a physical fire that destroys the person.
I'm not saying this is what you believe, as I don't know what you believe. However, the second death is indeed permanent death for the soul, as Jesus said. Matthew 10:28
It's not a matter of being cast anywhere though, in a physical sense. It refers simply to dying with no hope of resurrection.

For example, Jesus referred to sin that is unforgivable.
Mark 3:28, 29

28 Truly I say to you that all sins and blasphemies will be forgiven the sons of men, as many as they shall have blasphemed.​

29 But whoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit does not have forgiveness, to the age, but is guilty of eternal sin."​

So, those who commit the unforgivable sin, and die in this age, they are permanently dead.

Only those who remain unrepentant through a lifetime of choices that led them to losing the inclination or ability to repent - or by committing the unpardonable sin - are those who will be cast into the "lake of fire" - which is the "second death" - being separated from God and His light forever.

They are obviously separated from life. John 3:36

I believe it is clear from the Genesis account that Man was a reference to the flesh.

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

¶ And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed." (Genesis 2:7-8)

What God had formed was designated as Man even before He had breathed life or placed the spirit into the physical body - before he became a "living soul".

The physical body - alone - is not a living soul - it is not a life, self, person, heart, creature, mind or being - it is simply the physical body of Man.

I am just being clear in case you think I am saying something else, because I don't know the reason for your saying this.

The body, is not the soul.
Soul is the life of the person, or the person.
Adam did not exist as a body. The body was not Adam.

When God breathed the breath of life - the spirit into man, yes, the man became a living soul - a living person, or being.
That person - Adam, if dead, would be a dead person - a dead soul.
If Adam did not commit the unforgivable sin... which he did, the person - Adam - the soul, would be raised up.

The soul dies, and according to Jesus, and his apostles, is asleep, and will be raised up, if they are in God's memorial. See this post, for the scriptural references.

The source that you provided offers great insight into how the Hebrews understood this word - nephesh -

"Usage: The Hebrew word "nephesh" is a multifaceted term that appears frequently in the Old Testament. It is often translated as "soul" or "life," but its usage extends to denote the essence of a person, their inner being, or life force. It can refer to the physical life of a creature, the emotional and spiritual aspects of a person, or the entirety of a living being. In some contexts, "nephesh" is used to describe desires, appetites, and emotions, reflecting the holistic view of human nature in Hebrew thought.

Cultural and Historical Background: In ancient Hebrew culture, the concept of "nephesh" was integral to understanding human identity and existence. Unlike the Greek dichotomy of body and soul, the Hebrew perspective viewed humans as unified beings. "Nephesh" encapsulated the totality of a person's life and being, including their physical, emotional, and spiritual dimensions. This holistic view is evident in the way "nephesh" is used to describe both humans and animals as living beings with breath and vitality."

It agrees with what I initially said - that the soul - or "nephesh" - is the combination of the spiritual and physical bodies - that Man is a unified Spiritual and Physical Being.

Firstly, I want to point out that this is commentary from the authors, and secondly, it does not agree with you, unless you, since it does not refer to a spiritual body.
Qualities - "the emotional and spiritual aspects of a person" - of a man, are not a spiritual body.

When we die physically - our spiritual bodies are separated from our physical bodies - and we are no longer "living souls" - but we will become so again as a result of the Resurrection of the Dead that will take place before the Judgment.

There are no reliable references, either secularly, or Biblically, which says man has a spiritual body. nor animals.

This makes no sense. The word "being" means "to exist". A being - by definition - always exists - otherwise it would not be.

Luke 1:38
So he is the God of the living, not the dead, for they are all alive to him.”

I understand why it doesn't make sense now.
I hope it does make sense at some later time.

I would need you to clarify this before I could properly respond.

I don't know where you go this idea from.

You said, "The word "being" means "to exist"".
Angels exist. They are angelic beings, or spiritual beings. Not fleshly.
They are spiritual beings, and physical beings. They aren't of the same material, but they are both beings.
1 Corinthians 15:35-49

Please consider the following scriptures.
Psalm 108:1; Psalm 130:5; Psalm 146:1; Proverbs 20:27-30; Isaiah 26:9
Acts 17:29; Hebrews 1:3
I hop, they do help.

The Hebrew word "malak" or "malach" - often translated as "angel" - is used to describe messengers - either mortal or divine.

Anything that can be designated as an "angel" is obviously a Being since they exist. I don't really know what you are talking about.

That's what I am talking about.
Zaha Torte said:

The Soul of Man is the combination of their spiritual and physical bodies - which is why Adam became a "living soul" after God breathed life into him (Genesis 2:7) - or in other words - placed Adam's spiritual body into his physical body - for we know that all spirits come from God (Ecclesiastes 12:7)​

Angels are living beings. They have life.
So, soul can apply to those beings in heaven.
However, I won't make that a subject of discussion.

The spiritual body is reunited with the physical body - becoming a "living soul" or the "nephesh" that your source spoke about.

This is a belief. It's not scriptural.

Yes - only those who have died physically are Resurrected.

A "living soul" is the combination of a spiritual and physical body - a "nephresh" - a unified Being.

We do not find spiritual body in man, referenced anywhere in the Bible, as shown above.
The only spiritual bodies referred to in the Bible, are heavenly beings. 1 Corinthians 15:35-57

Both the disembodied spiritual body - which had been waiting in the Underworld - the grave or Sheol - or even Hades - that had departed after the physical body had expired - is again reunited with the physical body - becoming a "living soul" or "nephresh" again.

Yes - the spirits of all people who have died will be reunited with their physical bodies and be lifted up in the Resurrection of the Dead - to become a "living soul" or "nephresh" again.

We all have within us in mortality a spirit that was placed into our physical bodies by God Himself - and the physical body dies when the spirit departs - yet the spirit is no longer considered a "living soul" or "nephresh" - because it no longer is the combination of a spiritual and physical body - so the Resurrection of the Dead reunites the spiritual and physical bodies - and we all again become a "living soul" or "nephresh".

To be clear - Adam or Man - existed before God breathed life into his physical body.

Both his physical body was formed before God gave it life and the spirit later known as Adam also existed before the formation of his physical body.

Adam's spirit existed before his physical body was formed - but he did not become a "living soul" or "nephresh" until after God placed his spirit into his physical body.

The spirit is the little "I am" in all of us - that eternal part of us that came from God the Father. He is the father of our spirits. (Hebrews 12:9)

I didn't fully understand your comment. It seems as though you just shared your opinion - which is fine - but it does not prove that anything I shared was misrepresented.

You claimed that there was no need to accept the argument from authority fallacy - but you made an appeal to the scriptures - which is an argument from authority.

Peter claimed that the Lord Jesus Christ preached to the spirits in Prison after His death and the Lord Himself - if the Gospel can be believed - claimed that He was to go to Paradise upon His death.

Also referred to as Abraham's bosom - such as in the Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man - a place of rest for the faithful as they await the time of their Resurrection.

The gulf separating the righteous from the wicked was bridge by the Lord Jesus Christ upon His suffering and death - and He preached to the spirits in Prison and brought release to the captives.

Then how can you claim that I have misrepresented anything?

Oop - I meant the epistle of John - so 1 John 5:4-5.

This same idea is later related in Revelation 2:26 and 21:7.

You are confusing this verse with 2 Peter 2:4. 1 Peter 3:19 is not a reference to Tartarus or to rebellious angels, but to those who rejected Noah's words as he prepared the Ark for the eventual Deluge.

Based on what?

I don't understand this sentence.

Correct - as I stated earlier. Yet that does not change the promise of the Lord Jesus Christ.

All will be Resurrected - yet those who are cast into the "lake of fire" will suffer the "second death" - which is to be separated from God and His light forever - to be spiritually dead forever - like Satan and those who followed him in rebellion.

What do you base this on?

What inconsistency?

The Underworld - the grave or Sheol - or even Hades - are references to the same thing - the state of the spirit of Man betwixt physical death and the Resurrection.

The spirit of Man will be subjected to either Paradise, Prison or Hell upon physical death - depending on the deeds done in the body - and they will remain in the Underworld - the grave or Sheol - or even Hades - until the time of their appointed Resurrection and subsequent Judgment.

When you can support your beliefs about this "spiritual body God put in man" with scripture, we can continue.