John MacArthur on Feminism

[AntoineL]

Don't know if this is the right thread..Anyways, John hit the nail on the head. But this is something many world based christians do not like to accept and admit.

 

[debateableduck]

many world based christians

What is a world-based Christian?

 

[AntoineL]

What is a world-based Christian?

You should know that already.

 

[debateableduck]

I have never heard that phrase before. That is why I ask.

 

[Strong in Him]

I would guess it's the same as a worldly Christian - one who is shaped, influenced by the world rather than Scripture, and puts the world, and the ideas and standards of society first, before God. In Romans 12:1 Paul says that we shouldn't conform to the world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds, and in his 1st letter, John tells us not to love the world.

I agree with some of the 1st clip where he talks about abortion, the disintegration of family life and the fact that some women want to replace God with feminism. But I disagree with the 2nd clip, at least, the bit I watched. I also hate and totally reject the link between women preachers and feminism; the notion that any woman who dares to preach the word of God is a feminist, pushing her own agenda. That is nonsense and an insult.

Many, many godly women have heard his call to them to preach the Gospel, or even be ministers. Some have had no desire to do so and thought it the last thing they would ever be doing. Some have argued with God and tried to ignore him for as long as possible. But when someone is serious about serving God, hears his voice and call to a certain ministry, hears it again and again and has it confirmed by other Christians - often male clergy; what can we say except, "yes, Lord"?

If MaCArthur is trying to say that such women are on a par with men-hating, possibly lesbian, feminists who push themselves forward and demand that their own needs and desires are met - then shame on him.

If he insists that God can never call a woman to lead, then maybe he can explain why God did just that in the OT, with Deborah.

 

[ServantJohn]

Don't know if this is the right thread..Anyways, John hit the nail on the head. But this is something many world based christians do not like to accept and admit.

Or submit

 

[Strong in Him]

Or submit

Some of us do submit to God; that's why we follow when he calls us.

 

[ServantJohn]

Some of us do submit to God; that's why we follow when he calls us.

God will not contradict His written word.

 

[Strong in Him]

God will not contradict His written word.

No - so as he IS calling women to preach, and has been for many years, then obviously his written word doesn't mean what people have said that it means.

Unless you are saying that every female preacher for the last few hundred years or so, has been lying or deluded, has made false claims from the pulpit and the Lord is unable to stop them.

 

[ServantJohn]

No - so as he IS calling women to preach, and has been for many years, then obviously his written word doesn't mean what people have said that it means.

Unless you are saying that every female preacher for the last few hundred years or so, has been lying or deluded, has made false claims from the pulpit and the Lord is unable to stop them.

Would you say that every man that has preached over the same period and people were saved as a result of their ministry were called by God?

To answer your question more directly. Yes, it is possible and probable that every single woman over the last few hundred years that has held an office of teacher or ruler over men in the church was lying or deluded if they claimed God had called them to that position. As for God not being able to stop them, how many times have you sinned? Was God not able to stop you?

 

[Strong in Him]

Would you say that every man that has preached over the same period and people were saved as a result of their ministry were called by God?

I don't know if they claimed they were called by God, if they asked him and wanted to know his will, or if they were just in the church because it was a living. That happened, years ago, the second eldest son went into the church.
But I am certain that if they had sincerely asked God to lead them, show them his will and prevent them from making a mistake, or doing anything to dishonour him, he would have. It's maybe off the point, but if a congregation are also praying and asking the Lord to provide another preacher/minister and seeking his will then the Lord can speak through them, too.

To answer your question more directly. Yes, it is possible and probable that every single woman over the last few hundred years that has held an office of teacher or ruler over men in the church was lying or deluded if they claimed God had called them to that position

Sorry, but I can't accept that. I can't speak for every woman, but I have known, and do know, several women preachers - all of whom were born again, Spirit filled and walking humbly with God, and most of whom had no plan/desire to preach. Their call to do so was not egotism, feminism or a need to push themselves into the limelight.
And in 100% of cases, it was confirmed by men - male clergy who were in authority over them, and who, in many cases, trained them - AND the church.

As for God not being able to stop them, how many times have you sinned?

A lot.

Was God not able to stop you?

Yes, and sometimes he has - if I ask him to, and genuinely don't want to hurt him/sin/be outside of his will.

Some of the female preachers/ministers that I know would have been only too happy to say, "Oh what a shame, Lord, I would so love to obey you, but the Bible says that I can't", and go off and do something easier. I don't know of anyone who would voluntarily endure the hassle that women preachers get, unless they were certain that they were called by God.
The same God who told us all to preach the Gospel.

 

[ServantJohn]

Strong in Him,

You are very sweet, but this conversation is unfruitful in its opinions outside of Scripture. The Bible clearly teaches against women being in positions of authority over men as MacArthur clearly showed. Everything else means very little.

 

[Tiny Bible]

You should know that already.

And you should know that Christian is spelled with a capital C.

John Macarthur's opinion does not supersede Christ's example in showing women respect. Jesus never said a woman cannot teach or preach his word. There were women pastors after Jesus returned to the Father. He allowed women in his company. He interceded when Jewish men invoking the law were to stone a woman for a perceived violation. He allowed a woman to anoint his feet. All things the tradition of the males patriarchal model in his time forbid.

I would also add that what I find fruitless is the argument that invokes Jesus Christ as preaching bigotry against women. And invoking Jesus to argue that women should accept their station when they are Christians as that of less than to men, and by the edict of God himself.
Galatians 3:28 should be a reminder that Jesus taught that we are all one in Christ. And when Jesus said to his disciples, which would not be just 12 men who were mortal and would eventually die, to go forth and spread his word, he did not say, be that for men only.
And being the 12 that stayed faithful to our Lord as his disciples if it were just those 12 men meant to carry forth the good news, then the good news would have been short lived once those 12 apostles were martyred.

Which means there would be no pastor called John Macarthur deeming himself worthy to preach the gospel over 2000 years after Christ.

 

[ServantJohn]

And you should know that Christian is spelled with a capital C.

John Macarthur's opinion does not supersede Christ's example in showing women respect. Jesus never said a woman cannot teach or preach his word. There were women pastors after Jesus returned to the Father. He allowed women in his company. He interceded when Jewish men invoking the law were to stone a woman for a perceived violation. He allowed a woman to anoint his feet. All things the tradition of the males patriarchal model in his time forbid.

I would also add that what I find fruitless is the argument that invokes Jesus Christ as preaching bigotry against women. And invoking Jesus to argue that women should accept their station when they are Christians as that of less than to men, and by the edict of God himself.
Galatians 3:28 should be a reminder that Jesus taught that we are all one in Christ. And when Jesus said to his disciples, which would not be just 12 men who were mortal and would eventually die, to go forth and spread his word, he did not say, be that for men only.
And being the 12 that stayed faithful to our Lord as his disciples if it were just those 12 men meant to carry forth the good news, then the good news would have been short lived once those 12 apostles were martyred.

Which means there would be no pastor called John Macarthur deeming himself worthy to preach the gospel over 2000 years after Christ.

No, Paul said it and now it is part of the Canon of Scripture. John MacArthur simply explained the clear meaning of the passage and dispelled the many lies out there. It's in the Bible, it says what it means, and means what it says. You have to decide what you will do with it and will be held accountable for what you decide.

 

[Tiny Bible]

No, Paul said it and now it is part of the Canon of Scripture. John MacArthur simply explained the clear meaning of the passage and dispelled the many lies out there. It's in the Bible, it says what it means, and means what it says.

If you believed that you'd not ignore Galatians 3:28.

You have to decide what you will do with it and will be held accountable for what you decide.

As shall you when you invoke Paul misunderstanding what he said while accepting MacArthurs teaching and then choose to ignore Paul's letter in Galatians 3:28.
If we are all one in Christ and there is no male or female then there is no greater than or less than between the sexes according to Christ.

John MacArthur is a Calvinist and a premillennialist. Are you?

 

[ServantJohn]

If you believed that you'd not ignore Galatians 3:28.

As shall you when you invoke Paul misunderstanding what he said while accepting MacArthurs teaching and then choose to ignore Paul's letter in Galatians 3:28.
If we are all one in Christ and there is no male or female then there is no greater than or less than between the sexes according to Christ.

John MacArthur is a Calvinist and a premillennialist. Are you?

Actually, If I believed that, I would be putting Galatians 3:28 in its proper context and not taking it out of context to say something it doesn't say. It's a logical fallacy to argue that what someone believes about one topic somehow makes what they believe about another topic wrong.

 

[Tiny Bible]

Actually, If I believed that, I would be putting Galatians 3:28 in its proper context and not taking it out of context to say something it doesn't say. It's a logical fallacy to argue that what someone believes about one topic somehow makes what they believe about another topic wrong.

It is. However, if we are not all one in Christ then you need to show the scripture that proves that. Furthermore, the scripture to the church in Corinth was that of a letter Paul wrote managing that church which he founded in Corinth.
It is not anything that Jesus taught. In fact, as stated, if we are all one in Christ, as Paul said, and there is no male or female, then his edict to the Corinthian church contradicted that passage in Galatians.
Therein is the issue and context MacArthur should concern himself with.
And I note you did not answer my question as pertains to Calvinism and premillennialist.

Meanwhile, there were women pastors after Jesus. And Jesus traveled with women in his company. Christians follow the teachings of Jesus. A letter from Paul to a church he founded is not a teaching of Christ=God.

• Joel 2:28-29 - "It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; and your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. And even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days."

• Acts 2:17-18 - "'And it shall be in the last days,' God says, 'That I will pour forth of My Spirit upon all mankind; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even upon My bondslaves, both man and women, I will in those days pour forth of My Spirit and they shall prophesy.'"

 

[jimmyjimmy]

Unless you are saying that every female preacher for the last few hundred years or so, has been lying or deluded, has made false claims from the pulpit and the Lord is unable to stop them.

Yes, yes, yes.

If God's written word is your guide, you must agree. The trouble is that many have exchanged the truth of God for their feelings. People often "feel" called rather than are called. Calling to the pastorate comes from a group of men (elders) to another specific man.

 

[ServantJohn]

A letter from Paul to a church he founded is not a teaching of Christ=God.

And this is what it often boils down to for many who argue for women in positions of authority over men in the church. They reject Paul's teaching as not inspired by God or in contradiction to Jesus' teachings. They also use anecdotal evidence or take Scripture out of context to support their arguments.

Consider this passage:

"From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you." But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.""
(Matthew 16:21-23 ESV)

Many things may sound loving and right to us when our minds are set on the "things of man", but are "a hindrance to" Christ! When God tells us it must be one way, it doesn't matter how much that offends our sensibilities.

 

[jimmyjimmy]

And this is what it often boils down to for many who argue for women in positions of authority over men in the church. They reject Paul's teaching as not inspired by God or in contradiction to Jesus' teachings. They also use anecdotal evidence or take Scripture out of context to support their arguments.

Consider this passage:

"From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, "Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you." But he turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.""
(Matthew 16:21-23 ESV)

Many things may sound loving and right to us when our minds are set on the "things of man", but are "a hindrance to" Christ! When God tells us it must be one way, it doesn't matter how much that offends our sensibilities.

Well said.

People often use their thoughts, feelings, and emotions as guides rather than scripture. They can mean well, but that really doesn't matter if they are wrong and lead others into their error.

God's Word is offensive to all people at some point. The Bible's teaching on marriage offends many modern westerners, but it doesn't offend middle easterners. God's grace and pardon to sinners doesn't offend us in the west; however, it does in Muslim countries.

There is an area for everyone where God's word rubs the wrong way. When that happens we have a choice to either ignore or disregard His Word or to let His Word correct us. We can attempt to correct Hm, or He can correct us.