John Macarthur on Alcohol

[DD2008]

Living “Under the Influence”

Be Not Drunk with Wine, Part 1

I agree with him. It's just my conviction. I associate alcohol with bad things, and I see no good reason to use it, I never plan to use it again. I understand this is a hated topic with the reformed, (I got an infraction on another reformed message board for saying I don't believe we should drink alcohol, which of course was just stupid moderation, I couldn't believe it actually ) But, there it is, I don't like it Macarthur don't either, there are plenty of us who don't and I believe that is the wisest course of action.

In reference to cana, no one knows what kind of wine it was or even if it was alcoholic at all. It was pre-atonement. That is a mute point in this argument.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

The wine at Cana is a very valid issue. The context clearly shows that we are talking about wine not grape juice. The Greek is even more clear than the English. As mentioned before, grape juice, before Dr. Welch's work in the 1800's, was completely wine in about 10 days after the grape has been crushed.

I have a number of friends who abstain from using alcohol, for personal reasons, and for some of them it would be sin to drink a glass of wine, because they could not do so in good faith. I think that is fine, but I do have to say something when we twist the Scripture to fit a believe that started in this country just two centuries ago (temperance movement).

Godly Christians could drink wine for 1800 years (as did Calvin, Luther, the Puritans and countless others before them) and saw that God blessed the use of it.

The Temperance Movement was an American evangelical movement that began among the Unitarians and Spread to the Baptists, Methodists and other "frontier" churches. It was not a Bible based movement.

I think it is important that we stick with Scripture on this issue. The Scriptures are always the safe place to be. Scriptures say wine is good if used properly.

Here is a link to check out:
As I see it!

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[JesusFreak78]

Living “Under the Influence”

Be Not Drunk with Wine, Part 1

I agree with him. It's just my conviction. I associate alcohol with bad things, and I see no good reason to use it, I never plan to use it again. I understand this is a hated topic with the reformed, (I got an infraction on another reformed message board for saying I don't believe we should drink alcohol, which of course was just stupid moderation, I couldn't believe it actually ) But, there it is, I don't like it Macarthur don't either, there are plenty of us who don't and I believe that is the wisest course of action.

In reference to cana, no one knows what kind of wine it was or even if it was alcoholic at all. It was pre-atonement. That is a mute point in this argument.

No one has said you should get drunk on wine and I think everyone would agree with that. What we don't agree with is you use verses that say "don't get drunk" to mean don't drink at all. That's two different things.

Let's not get drunk on wine, but let those who like wine and can drink it enjoy a glass or two.

 

[Erinwilcox]

You, John MacArthur, and anybody else who chooses to refrain from drinking alcohol are totally welcome to that opinion, and I totally respect it. My family abstained for many years, but we always asserted that we had no problem with others who chose to partake in moderation. Please don't try to bind the consciences of those of us who believe that God has given us the liberty to enjoy it.

All things can be abused: the internet, sex, ect. Does that mean that we should refrain from using or doing everything that COULD be used for evil?

And the wine at Cana WAS real. It doesn't specify "non alcoholic" or say that it was "grape juice only because drinking is evil." Pre-atonement or not, it was Jesus Himself who made it for the people to enjoy.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

By the way Spurgeon, being English, both drank and smoked. He could do that because the American Temperance movement had not made it across the Atlantic. Of course, I think Spurgeon would not have accepted the movement even if it had gotten over to England.

Kenith

 

[DD2008]

By the way Spurgeon, being English, both drank and smoked. He could do that because the American Temperance movement had not made it across the Atlantic. Of course, I think Spurgeon would not have accepted the movement even if it had gotten over to England.

Kenith

All of the unsanctified have their vices...

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

All of the unsanctified have their vices...

Not vice, biblical liberty and not sinful if used moderately.


Kenith

 

[DD2008]

Not vice, biblical liberty and not sinful if used moderately.


Kenith

Please take no offense if I disagree brother.

 

[theFijian]

Please take no offense if I disagree brother.

Likewise please take no offence if you are asked to take your yolk of slavery elsewhere.

 

[DD2008]

Likewise please take no offence if you are asked to take your yolk of slavery elsewhere.

As stated before, I agree with John Macarthur on this. I see no "slavery" in excluding alcohol from the Christian life. Life is much better without it. Did you even read the first link?

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Likewise please take no offence if you are asked to take your yolk of slavery elsewhere.

I take no offence. But I would be happy to go with you into the Scriptures and see what the Word of God say on the matter.

I also recommend reading Dr. Kenneth Gentry's book, God Gave Wine: What the Bible Says About Alcohol

It is an exhaustive study on this subject that leaves no stone unturned. It is more detailed than most people may like but if you want to no the Bible on this issue, This book has all the work done already.

Kenith

 

[DD2008]

I take no offence. But I would be happy to go with you into the Scriptures and see what the Word of God say on the matter.

I also recommend reading Dr. Kenneth Gentry's book, God Gave Wine: What the Bible Says About Alcohol

It is an exhaustive study on this subject that leaves no stone unturned. It is more detailed than most people may like but if you want to no the Bible on this issue, This book has all the work done already.

Kenith

Macarthur has presented a good biblical case in the links I provided in the opening post...

Did you read them?

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Macarthur has presented a good biblical case in the links I provided in the opening post...

Did you read them?

I read McArthur's arguments several years ago. I did not read them again today. I know his arguments and if you go back a few years ago on this forum you will see that McArthur's argument on this topic has been thoroughly discussed.

I still offer to discuss this issue with you. I will even reread McArthur if you will read this As I see it! . If you want real depth, Gentry's book is the definitive work on the subject.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[DD2008]

I read McArthur's arguments several years ago. I did not read them again today. I know his arguments and if you go back a few years ago on this forum you will see that McArthur's argument on this topic has been thoroughly discussed.

I still offer to discuss this issue with you. I will even reread McArthur if you will read this As I see it! . If you want real depth, Gentry's book is the definitive work on the subject.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

Sorry. I am not willing to accept alcohol use. I don't feel it's right. I agree with Macarthur and share his convictions.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

Sorry. I am not willing to accept alcohol use. I don't feel it's right. I agree with Macarthur and share his convictions.

So, You have made up your mind and do not desire to be confused by the facts of Scripture?

Like i said, I am willing to reread McArthur on alcohol if you are willing to read my link. Then we can discussed them both. This would NOT change your own personal choice to abstain; it is about what the Bible says on the issue.

You asked to check out McArthur, which I have done, though it has been some years since I read his arguments, I have asked you to read my link. I think that is a fair response to your request.

Change your mind

Kenith

 

[Lizabth]

Sorry. I am not willing to accept alcohol use. I don't feel it's right. I agree with Macarthur and share his convictions.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with you abstaining from alcohol. No one is asking you to partake of alcohol.

You're fussing about nothing, here. You seem to be looking for a tussle. Relax.

I, personally, don't drink very often, but I sure do like soaking cakes in spirits.

Hmm, mm good! Ever had a really well-made rum-soaked butter cake?

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I, personally, don't drink very often, but I sure do like soaking cakes in spirits.

Hmm, mm good! Ever had a really well-made rum-soaked butter cake?

Now I'm hungry. You don't live near SW Louisiana do you?

Kenith

 

[Edwards1984]

I think MacArthur's point is more about reflection than dogma, and much of it seems focused on alcoholism and what leads to it both first-hand and second-hand. I personally have no problem with drinking wine so long as it is controlled, whereas at the same time I usually don't have any alcohol at all. As I said in another thread, I can see both sides in this argument.

I have a good Christian brother who abstains completely from alcohol because alcoholism was a problem in his family and he wants to avoid that. I respect his choice in that matter, and I would certainly never drink around him out of respect and not to draw him into temptation. One good point I think MacArthur makes: there are oodles of nonalcoholic drinks available to the average American, so the person who lives off alcohol really has no excuse.

 

[Lizabth]

Now I'm hungry. You don't live near SW Louisiana do you?

Hey Kenith!

You know, today I wonder. It's in the mid 90's with the most appalling humidity here. Yuck. I want ice and snow and cold wind.

Of course, I say that now...

BTW: one of my fave cakes to make is based on a carefully made brioche dough, soaked in an apricot brandy syrup after baking, decorated with various glazed fruits. It's the sort of cake seems deceptively 'light', until the brunt of the sugar, butter and brandy hits you, that is. A small slice def suffices.

I love our God's very good gifts! I'd include a wee bit of spirits, now and then, in that category.

And am happy to have abstainers enjoy their abstention!

 

[DD2008]

So, You have made up your mind and do not desire to be confused by the facts of Scripture?

As I stated before, I believe Dr. Macarthur has presented the scriptural teaching on this and I see no reason to reinvent the wheel. I'm simply illustrating that I'm not the only one with my view of alcohol by showing that Dr. John Macarthur shares it. So, basically, I didn't make it up. It has been shown to be biblical by biblicists.