John 5:7

[Deren]

and most of which contain various books such as the book of jubilees, the book of enoch, the account of adam and eve, etc. All expunged books , that appear in some cannons and not in others.

But us not distract from the significance of john 5:7.

Regardless of how or why it was introduced, or found out later, it has been part of the bible cannon since 800 until recently, and then it was removed.

And you point is what?

This is the ONLY verse that describes the trinity. It may have been a word bounded about between the various bishops from antioch to constantinople, but these were not considered the INSPIRED word of god.

Quite to the contrary. Have you never read Matthew 28:19?

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
​

Or how about 2 Corinthians 13:14?
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Or Luke 1:35?

And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.

I mean, the references are almost unlimited when it comes to identifying the triune relationship in the Godhead. One doesn't just need to resort to 1 John 5:7.

It is not a question of NEGATION of god's words, but a reflection of not only scriptual corruption but corruption of the meaning of the scriptures that has allowed the church to deviate from the timeless pattern of God (not of this world) and prophethood of this world, with the two having no metaphysical relationship in their make up, being completely seperate and not the same in any shape or form

This is more of your Islamic baloney that you've swallowed. A corruption takes place when something is no longer sound. Yet, as has already been demonstrated, whether or not 1 John 5:7 would have remained as in the biblical text does not corrupt Christian doctrine when it comes to the Trinity, because there are dozens of references which state the same thing. Besides, even if one were to grant such a strong word as "corruption" to the inclusion of the wording found in 1 John 5:7, modern textual critics have corrected the "corruption." So basically you're argument is vaccuous from at least two different viewpoints. Christian doctrine supports the Trinity, and textual criticism has taken care of the text in question.

 

[Deren]

The Truth is; Constantine called the council at Nicea because of disputes among the so-called "Christian" leaders. Many simple Truth´s were and are ommited from the original New Testament Scriptures, in order to appease the arguing factions. Remember, Constantine was still a sun worshipper at this time !

Excuse me, but just what were these "truths [that] were and are omitted from the original New Testament Scripture," and what textual evidence are you referring to, to support your claim?

It is also a Fact that The Holy Ghost was NOT incorporated or accepted as part of the Trinity until 65 years or so later !!!

That is not a fact, and in fact, is a misrepresentation of the truth. The Nicene Creed read, "We believe in one God...And in the one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God...And in the Holy Spirit." Now, the reason why the Holy Spirit was not elaborated on at Nicea wasn't because those present did not accept him as part of the Trinity, but it was because that Council was not addressing that particular facet of the Godhead. Their main emphasis was on the person of Jesus, as God, and how he related to God the Father, in light of heretical attacks.

It is also so blatantly clear that the Godhead are ALL individual, ALL one in aim and purpose.

It is also blatantly clear that those attacking the Trinitarian relationship in the Godhead still don't get it, nor are they wanting to.

One can also see how many different doctrines have come about, doctrines of men, NOT god !

And a rejection of the Trinity results in heretical doctrines of men being created.

As for Mohammed, I believe he was visited by an angel, but NOT from God the Father. My reason for this is from his own testimony that; After frequent visitations in the cave, he would run, terrified and trembling to his wife, who would comfort him.

Yeah, that's a great sounding angel you've got there. He sounds more like a demon than anything.

The only comforter is the Holy Ghost of a God of Pure Love !!!

So, Jesus wasn't a comforter? Then why did he say that he would send another comforter, if the Holy Spirit (not Ghost) is the only one?

In the New Testiment alone, it is written around 360 times, that when an Angel from the Lord appeared to men, the first words uttered are, "Fear Not".

Yeah. So, why was Muhammed scared out of his wits when the angel showed up?

Satan and his demons can also appear as an angel of light and fear commeth from the devil.

Then apparently the angel that scared Muhammed half to death was a demon. Thank you for the insight.

I hope I have helped !

Actually, all you managed to do was distort what actually took place to push whatever agenda you're promoting.

 

[Deren]

Believe me, when I say the Bible is anything but the inherent word of God.

Why should you be believed? And don't you mean inerrant, rather than inherent?

However, Deren and Arunma pretty much gave rock solid answers. The concept of the Trinity orginated way before the Johannene Comma and the issue was found and adressed.

Indeed. Thank you for the confirmation.

 

[Deren]

Please check your encyclopedia and history books.
Remember, Faith and Prayer are the True evidence of God and His works.
The Apostacy continues my friend !

Not only have I done those things, it is because I have done it that I can say that apparently you haven't.

 

[Deren]

i want to tell muslims that the christians are honest and if they were not honest you will not know that verse is added in some translations
the trinity is not based on this verse !! we believe in the trinity from all the bible and this verse is not important to prove the trinity ,
i belong to the church of Alexandria ( coptic orthodox ) which is founded in 62 AD. and we believe in the trinity before the New Testament is writen and this verse is not in the coptic version .
the muslims always fight the true trinity God because they worship another God , their God order them to fight all the world to spread their religion
" Jesus Christ is full man and full God "

 

[obi1kanobi]

Excuse me, but just what were these "truths [that] were and are omitted from the original New Testament Scripture," and what textual evidence are you referring to, to support your claim?

Anwer: If we Knew them there would not be so much confussion !
Science seeks for evidence but faith can move mountains !





That is not a fact, and in fact, is a misrepresentation of the truth. The Nicene Creed read, "We believe in one God...And in the one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God...And in the Holy Spirit." Now, the reason why the Holy Spirit was not elaborated on at Nicea wasn't because those present did not accept him as part of the Trinity, but it was because that Council was not addressing that particular facet of the Godhead. Their main emphasis was on the person of Jesus, as God, and how he related to God the Father, in light of heretical attacks.

Answer: Your answer has more faith and trust in the works of men rather
than Faith and Trust in GOD !
The Apostacy and Idiotic explanation of the Trinity continues in
cecullar christianity.



It is also blatantly clear that those attacking the Trinitarian relationship in the Godhead still don't get it, nor are they wanting to.

Answer: Nobody can ever get it, your right, because the Nicean explanation
is so absurd !!!

And a rejection of the Trinity results in heretical doctrines of men being created.

Answer: So, one must only trust the arguments of power-mad self-appointed
men and sun worshippers in there Ludicrous explanation of the
Godhead ?
I for one, am not so NAIVE !

Yeah, that's a great sounding angel you've got there. He sounds more like a demon than anything.

Answer: There is hope for you yet !!!


So, Jesus wasn't a comforter? Then why did he say that he would send another comforter, if the Holy Spirit (not Ghost) is the only one?

Answer: The other Comforter IS the Holy Ghost !
"A voice was heard from Heaven saying, this is my beloved Son in
whim I AM well pleased. "
The Holy GHOST descended from Heaven in the form of a dove.
Jesus was asked by the disciples when the time of the second
coming would be, HE did NOT KNOW," only my Father in heaven."
They are ALL INDIVIDUAL and it is SO CRYSTAL CLEAR !
"A Spirit hath NOT Flesh and Blood."
Jesus HAS a Body of Flesh and Blood, or will you try to tell me HE
Hasn´t ?

Yeah. So, why was Muhammed scared out of his wits when the angel showed up?

Answer: Because this spirit was NOT from GOD !

Then apparently the angel that scared Muhammed half to death was a demon. Thank you for the insight.

Answer: Your welcome !!!

Actually, all you managed to do was distort what actually took place to push whatever agenda you're promoting.

Answer: I am promoting the TRUTH !

 

[Doctrine1st]

Quite to the contrary. Have you never read Matthew 28:19?

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,​

Or how about 2 Corinthians 13:14?
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Or Luke 1:35?

And the angel answered and said to her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God.

I mean, the references are almost unlimited when it comes to identifying the triune relationship in the Godhead. One doesn't just need to resort to 1 John 5:7.

I have hard time seeing these verses making the Christian idea of the trinity. Perhaps a triune description of seperate entities, but I really can't say that this is making the same statements as the John 5 verse providing the author there meant physically three is one, and not just three being on the same accord.

 

[obi1kanobi]

I have hard time seeing these verses making the Christian idea of the trinity. Perhaps a triune description of seperate entities, but I really can't say that this is making the same statements as the John 5 verse providing the author there meant physically three is one, and not just three being on the same accord.

All one on purpose.
All one in Love.
All one in mind.
All one in Spirit.
Each seperate in BEING !

 

[Deren]

Answer: I am promoting the TRUTH !

A sweeping generalization while evading pertinent questions exposing apparent falsehoods is not a promotion of the truth, but a distorting of it, with the express intent of pushing a subversive agenda.

 

[Deren]

I have hard time seeing these verses making the Christian idea of the trinity. Perhaps a triune description of seperate entities, but I really can't say that this is making the same statements as the John 5 verse providing the author there meant physically three is one, and not just three being on the same accord.

That's okay. Just because you can't see does not negate the reality of the Trinity.

 

[Deren]

All one on purpose.
All one in Love.
All one in mind.
All one in Spirit.
Each seperate in BEING !

Ehhhhhh....wrong. One in essence and one in being, yet distinct in personalities.

 

[arunma]

Ehhhhhh....wrong. One in essence and one in being, yet distinct in personalities.

I would say that they are the same in personality, but distinct in office. It doesn't make sense to say that the Persons of the Trinity have separate personalities, because they are always in perfect agreement. God cannot dispute his own counsel.

Let this be a lesson to everyone that even Christians aren't sure about the true nature of the Trinity. There are probably dozens of understandings about this, and that is why it is a mystery.

 

[peaceful soul]

I would say that they are the same in personality, but distinct in office. It doesn't make sense to say that the Persons of the Trinity have separate personalities, because they are always in perfect agreement. God cannot dispute his own counsel.

Let this be a lesson to everyone that even Christians aren't sure about the true nature of the Trinity. There are probably dozens of understandings about this, and that is why it is a mystery.

Agreed since man cannot fathom the infinite God with his finite mind. The best way to comprehend God is to read the Bible while allowing your mind to be transformed by the scripture. For people who don't want to understand or who insist upon forming their own opinion while not allowing for correction, this is not likely to happen.

From reading the Bible, one can see a relationship, and those of us who have put our faith in Christ can come to personally know the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and can see them as ONE. Each person's view of oneness is subject to correction in reality. We simply do not know. Neither do we really need to know in order to take God at His Word.

 

[obi1kanobi]

It is a case where a person, Erasmus, decided to insert something into the inspired text (the Comma Johanneum) that was not there to appease someone else (Stunica). Therefore, in the words of Bruce Metzger, "The Comma probably originated as a piece of allegorical exegesis of the three witnesses and may have been written as a marginal gloss in a Latin manuscript of 1 John, when it was taken into the text of the Old Latin Bible during the fifth century. The passage does not appear in manuscripts of the Latin Vulgate before about A.D. 800" (The Text of the New Testament, 102).

The bottom line is that the wording of 1 John 5:7-8 has no textual support in the Greek, which is why the above English translations have decided to exclude it.

Poor excuse ! Inspired by whom ???

 

[obi1kanobi]

I think there point was that that uninspired portion was added to an inspired text, some 700 years after it had been written.

Basically, it's kind of like someone trying to put a few more words into a verse in the Quran about 700 years after it was written, and then a Christian would come along and say "this is removed from the original! Why the whole document must have been treated that way!"

So one cannot deny that the Scriptures have been manipulated by man !

 

[obi1kanobi]

A sweeping generalization while evading pertinent questions exposing apparent falsehoods is not a promotion of the truth, but a distorting of it, with the express intent of pushing a subversive agenda.

The TRUTH is, YOU, and many others, don´t really want to know the TRUTH !

 

[obi1kanobi]

Ehhhhhh....wrong. One in essence and one in being, yet distinct in personalities.

Please read; John 10: 28 - 39 and Psalms 82: 6 !
How absurd the Political notion that the Godhead are all one being !
Why would Jesus say that His father is greater than Himself ?
Why did Jesus NOT know when His second coming would be ?
Why was a "voice from Heaven heard ?"
Why does Jesus have a body of Flesh and Blood when a Spirit have not ?
Why did the Holy Ghost descend upon Jesus ?
Why is the Nicean creed so ridiculous ?! (Because it was Politically created and is NOT by the Power and Authority of God.)
There are many many more crystal clear examples showing the INDIVIDUALITY of The Godhead, but the blind continue to lead the blind !

 

[Doctrine1st]

That's okay. Just because you can't see does not negate the reality of the Trinity.

Not that it matters, but again the verses you posted don't support anything close to the idea of what is now know after years of development; as the trinity. Maybe, just maybe, that's why whoever forged Johh 5:7 did what they did.

 

[obi1kanobi]

I would say that they are the same in personality, but distinct in office. It doesn't make sense to say that the Persons of the Trinity have separate personalities, because they are always in perfect agreement. God cannot dispute his own counsel.

Let this be a lesson to everyone that even Christians aren't sure about the true nature of the Trinity. There are probably dozens of understandings about this, and that is why it is a mystery.

It´s not a mystery, only to mystics !
Jesus HAS a body or not ?
It is logical to say that His/Our Father also HAS a body, YES ?
But a Spirit has NOT a body of flesh and blood, Jesus told us so !
Jesus and His/Our Father are the same. The same in purpose.
The Holy Spirit is the Testifier of them, the Comforter and Enlightener of TRUTH !

 

[obi1kanobi]

Not only have I done those things, it is because I have done it that I can say that apparently you haven't.

Which encyc. did you use ? The one written by you I presume !
The one I read states the TRUTH as to WHY the Nicean council took place.
Yours apparantly not ! How convieniant .