John 2:3,4

[Seeking His Face]

Please explain these verses.

[3]And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. [4]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (King James Bible)

[3]As the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, They have no wine. [4]Woman, said Jesus, what have you to do with me? My time has not come yet. (Moffatt Bible)

I sense that there is a deeper meaning here.

 

[rogueriver]

Please explain these verses.

[3]And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. [4]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (King James Bible)

[3]As the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, They have no wine. [4]Woman, said Jesus, what have you to do with me? My time has not come yet. (Moffatt Bible)

I sense that there is a deeper meaning here.

I’m thinking that having “no wine” is parable-speak for having no joy.

Isaiah 24:11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.

This beginning of miracles that Jesus did manifested forth his glory.

John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

This is echoed by Peter: when his glory shall be manifested, we will be glad with exceeding joy (wine),

1 Peter 4: 12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Also thinking about the “woman, what have I to do with thee”. These verses just pop up in my mind here in John 16.

John 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

“ye now have sorrow” = having “no wine”. But our sorrow shall turn into joy at the return of the Lord. Our hearts shall rejoice (the 6 stone pots).

22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Please explain these verses.

[3]And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. [4]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (King James Bible)

[3]As the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, They have no wine. [4]Woman, said Jesus, what have you to do with me? My time has not come yet. (Moffatt Bible)

I sense that there is a deeper meaning here.

Jesus spake of his death, and the shedding of his blood(wine.) Wine is symbolic of blood, just as Jesus showed at the last supper when he took the wine and said to his disciples"Drink you all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

It is written that a covenant is not in effect until the death of the testator, and the sprinkling of blood. This is the baptism Jesus spake of, which is the blood of purification.

But no man is able to recieve the New wine unless he is made a new vessel by being born again of the Holy Spirit; just as Jesus spake in this parable...

Luke 5:37-39

King James Version (KJV)



37And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. 39No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

 

[rogueriver]

Absolutely brother! Wine is symbolic of his blood.

But the context of the verse belongs at a marriage feast where there is usually joy.

John 3:29He that has the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

The water would be the Word of life that cleanses the heart and produces joy.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Absolutely brother! Wine is symbolic of his blood.

But the context of the verse belongs at a marriage feast where there is usually joy.

John 3:29He that has the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

The water would be the Word of life that cleanses the heart and produces joy.

The spiritual context is shown in the water pots, that were used for the purification of the Jews. The water represents the waters of separation for Israel, and the blood is the sign of the blood of purification as is shown in the spiritual law.

Notice the water pots...

John 2:6
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

In the measurments of those pots is contained a period of time to complete this purification process in Israel for those who can recieve it.

 

[x141]

Is not this wine, this joy, this marriage in canaan that of One, or Father, and not goods. Just as Peter did, Mary ate of the tree and this woman was now giving the fruit to Jesus to eat of. Nevertheless without the Life or blood of the grape the marriage bed is defiled and that of a harlot who opens her feet to everyone who passes by. Will we go in the way of Cain, and with her here build a city of this and call it Enoch.

 

[DamianWarS]

Jesus is refereed to as the bridegroom in scripture and the love he has for us is compared to the love between a bridegroom and bride for example Song of Solemn is often depicted to as an allegorical reference to Christ's love for his Church and in Revelation depicts Jesus the Lamb as the Bridegroom and his church the bride. With such references there is a sense of foreshadowing in this story with Jesus' first miracle being conducted as a marriage celebration.

It is clear in the bible that wine equals the shed blood of Christ but in context it certainly has a celebration aspect to it as well. At the very least we can assume Christ's blood allegory here however combined with the ceremonial cleansing pots and the wedding there is a sense of purification, transformation and celebration all at once. The supernatural is occurring here as water cannot change to wine and in the natural sense it is impossible. This can represent our spiritual change and can be paired with baptism with a sense of the old being buried in water and coming up as a new creation supernaturally transformed with the blood of Christ.

There is an obvious celebration here as well which can be applied to the celebration of our new life in Christ but also the celebration of Jesus' ministry starting on earth. Through his earthly ministry not only does Jesus allow but he seems to encourage worship or celebration of himself. I am reminded of Jesus' words "you always have the poor with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them; but you do not always have Me." This first miracle seems to be a fitting way to start his ministry.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I’m thinking that having “no wine” is parable-speak for having no joy.

Isaiah 24:11 There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.

This beginning of miracles that Jesus did manifested forth his glory.

John 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

This is echoed by Peter: when his glory shall be manifested, we will be glad with exceeding joy (wine),

1 Peter 4: 12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Also thinking about the “woman, what have I to do with thee”. These verses just pop up in my mind here in John 16.

John 16:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.
21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

“ye now have sorrow” = having “no wine”. But our sorrow shall turn into joy at the return of the Lord. Our hearts shall rejoice (the 6 stone pots).

22 And ye now therefore have sorrow: but I will see you again, and your heart shall rejoice, and your joy no man taketh from you.

Love it I love how you connect the joy and the glory and that which is revealing in you accordingly. The water (the joy made full) and His joy made full in us and speaks of the joy of the Holy Ghost.

I was looking at the wording surrounding it here


John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

John 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.

Whereas the water changing over is by and through Him (the power of God)

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Whereas it says "taste and see"...

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.(where his disciples put their trust in him there)

Then says...

John 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

Likewise it says...

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

And so says...

John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Love the tasting part, taste testers


1Peter 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

Speaks elsewhere of they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine, O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation. Oh that men would praise the LORD for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!

Psalm 89:15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of thy countenance.

The Spirit and the bride say come and see, and here taste and see

He sure rocks, great post brother





　
　
　

 

[Fireinfolding]

I wonder if it can be caught better this way, still playing around

John 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

1Cr 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

And He is "the beginning"

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Repeating there but sometimes helps to catch it better running them various ways.

 

[rogueriver]

Jesus is refereed to as the bridegroom in scripture and the love he has for us is compared to the love between a bridegroom and bride for example Song of Solemn is often depicted to as an allegorical reference to Christ's love for his Church and in Revelation depicts Jesus the Lamb as the Bridegroom and his church the bride. With such references there is a sense of foreshadowing in this story with Jesus' first miracle being conducted as a marriage celebration.

It is clear in the bible that wine equals the shed blood of Christ but in context it certainly has a celebration aspect to it as well. At the very least we can assume Christ's blood allegory here however combined with the ceremonial cleansing pots and the wedding there is a sense of purification, transformation and celebration all at once. The supernatural is occurring here as water cannot change to wine and in the natural sense it is impossible. This can represent our spiritual change and can be paired with baptism with a sense of the old being buried in water and coming up as a new creation supernaturally transformed with the blood of Christ.

There is an obvious celebration here as well which can be applied to the celebration of our new life in Christ but also the celebration of Jesus' ministry starting on earth. Through his earthly ministry not only does Jesus allow but he seems to encourage worship or celebration of himself. I am reminded of Jesus' words "you always have the poor with you, and whenever you wish you can do good to them; but you do not always have Me." This first miracle seems to be a fitting way to start his ministry.

Great post DamianWarS! Yes, it is all those things!

 

[rogueriver]

I wonder if it can be caught better this way, still playing around

John 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

Rev 1:2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

1Cr 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

John 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

And He is "the beginning"

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Repeating there but sometimes helps to catch it better running them various ways.

Fireinfolding, awesome connections there!

You got me thinking a little more about the 6 water pots- bearing the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

As you say, this is what I've been playing around with. don't know if I'm getting close or not.

Perhaps the 6 stone pots represent the works of the law. I know I said the heart before, but I think that this is a much better fit. One clue is in the words Jesus spoke to those who filled the water pots to the brim with water: “Draw out now…”

John 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

“Moses” just so happens to mean the same thing – to draw out.

Exodus 2:10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.

The 6 water pots of stone would then represent the law of Moses written in stone – the letter of the law. The number 6 would represent man working those works- since man is to work 6 days.

So we have the works of Moses law ( 6 water pots of stone) which are after the manner of the purifying of the Jews. But the works of the law could not make them perfect. They were contrary to them.

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

Continuing my reasoning here : Jesus did not come to destroy the law or the prophets but to fulfill them. Hence, the filling of the water pots to the brim at the marriage feast. Fulfilling the law = filling the water pots to the brim. His blood cleanses us from all sin and brings joy to our hearts (the wine = blood / joy).

Matthew 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The 2 or 3 “firkins” could be a reference to the law and the prophets who were witnesses of Jesus who was a witness of God - the 2 or 3 witnesses. The righteousness of God is also witnessed by the law and the prophets.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

We also fulfill the law of Christ within our hearts (having love for one another) which brings the fruits of the Spirit such as joy.

He gave himself for the church that he might sanctify and cleanse it the with the washing of water by the Word.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

 

[rogueriver]

forgot to add:

Now the work of man (6) is to believe in that Word - Jesus Christ - the witness.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 2:
11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

 

[juvenissun]

Please explain these verses.

[3]And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. [4]Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (King James Bible)

[3]As the wine ran short, the mother of Jesus said to him, They have no wine. [4]Woman, said Jesus, what have you to do with me? My time has not come yet. (Moffatt Bible)

I sense that there is a deeper meaning here.

We need to ask a question: What did she expect from Jesus? Is that an appropriate expectation?

 

[x141]

If you wish to till this ground she is both good and evil depending upon how you look at her, Jesus ate of neither.

 

[rogueriver]

"woman, what have I to do with thee? Mine hour is not come."

Could the "woman" be the law? The law is not of faith. The law was a schoolmaster until faith came. The works of the law had nothing to do with faith. Faith was not required under the law. Faith says to the law "what do I have to do with you" in a manner of speaking. "they have no wine" - they (under the law) have no faith?

Galatians 4:4-5
But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Fireinfolding, awesome connections there!

You got me thinking a little more about the 6 water pots- bearing the Word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

As you say, this is what I've been playing around with. don't know if I'm getting close or not.

Perhaps the 6 stone pots represent the works of the law. I know I said the heart before, but I think that this is a much better fit. One clue is in the words Jesus spoke to those who filled the water pots to the brim with water: “Draw out now…”

John 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

“Moses” just so happens to mean the same thing – to draw out.

Exodus 2:10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.

The 6 water pots of stone would then represent the law of Moses written in stone – the letter of the law. The number 6 would represent man working those works- since man is to work 6 days.

So we have the works of Moses law ( 6 water pots of stone) which are after the manner of the purifying of the Jews. But the works of the law could not make them perfect. They were contrary to them.

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

Continuing my reasoning here : Jesus did not come to destroy the law or the prophets but to fulfill them. Hence, the filling of the water pots to the brim at the marriage feast. Fulfilling the law = filling the water pots to the brim. His blood cleanses us from all sin and brings joy to our hearts (the wine = blood / joy).

Matthew 5:17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The 2 or 3 “firkins” could be a reference to the law and the prophets who were witnesses of Jesus who was a witness of God - the 2 or 3 witnesses. The righteousness of God is also witnessed by the law and the prophets.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

We also fulfill the law of Christ within our hearts (having love for one another) which brings the fruits of the Spirit such as joy.

He gave himself for the church that he might sanctify and cleanse it the with the washing of water by the Word.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Who are you? You popped up out of nowhere and always bless my socks off, I so appreciate your insights bro, great post I toss things around much the same that way and I was thinking something very similiar. I mean, because John come baptizing with the water too (unto the manifestion) Christ to Israel and He said "I knew him not" (whereas Paul would say) "that I might know him" and then speaks of the governor and the servants filling them with water (John as the freind of the bridegroom) and his own joy being made fulfilled, and Paul likewise says, "fulfil ye my joy" also when it comes to having the same love as he travailed with them until Christ (the same mind) to be formed in them too. The joy of hearing the voice of the bridegroom (so to speak) even as the Spirit and the bride speak the same things, being filled with spiritual understanding by the same Spirit. Ministers of the NC by the Spirit (not of the letter) and therefore clothed (being made able by Him) with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. So theres the filling up (of the one) the change (by Christ) and the drawing out and bearing now (shown).

Cant add anything more, just having fun connecting the dots in various ways as usual, thats always fun to do with others, its a blessing for sure.

God bless you brother

 

[Fireinfolding]

"woman, what have I to do with thee? Mine hour is not come."

Could the "woman" be the law? The law is not of faith. The law was a schoolmaster until faith came. The works of the law had nothing to do with faith. Faith was not required under the law. Faith says to the law "what do I have to do with you" in a manner of speaking. "they have no wine" - they (under the law) have no faith?

Galatians 4:4-5
But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

He is the appointed time (for us) of the Father.

Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

Sorta like a child (being under) and delivered of the child that a man is brought forth into this world, Christ in you, unto us a child is born and a son is given, like a twofold thing. Or as He said at the apointed time I will return and Sarah will have a son (even strength to conceive seed) but in a different way of catching the similitude. He is faithful who is promised, or even in respects to Mary it says, "blessed is she who has believed for there shall be a performance of what was told her, like performing his word.

That was sorta off the cuff, sorry about that

God bless you

 

[x141]

The law is the the Spirit of Life cast down. Which become's the law of sin and death, two tables of stone, the image and likekness. Knowledge is the purchased posession.

 

[x141]

This appointed time is the moment which Paul spoke of, Peter's unspeakable and full of glory, the Glory Jesus spoke of being restored to, before He was sent forth, the Glory He had with the Father before the world was, this Glory of One, Father. The Feast of Tabernacles.

Knowledge, good and evil, blessing and cursing, law and the prophets ... is seperation of self, a nakedness. Turns all things into something less than One. The Father, this glory is greater than I, this One. Unspoken.

 

[rogueriver]

Who are you? You popped up out of nowhere and always bless my socks off, I so appreciate your insights bro, great post I toss things around much the same that way and I was thinking something very similiar. I mean, because John come baptizing with the water too (unto the manifestion) Christ to Israel and He said "I knew him not" (whereas Paul would say) "that I might know him" and then speaks of the governor and the servants filling them with water (John as the freind of the bridegroom) and his own joy being made fulfilled, and Paul likewise says, "fulfil ye my joy" also when it comes to having the same love as he travailed with them until Christ (the same mind) to be formed in them too. The joy of hearing the voice of the bridegroom (so to speak) even as the Spirit and the bride speak the same things, being filled with spiritual understanding by the same Spirit. Ministers of the NC by the Spirit (not of the letter) and therefore clothed (being made able by Him) with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. So theres the filling up (of the one) the change (by Christ) and the drawing out and bearing now (shown).

Cant add anything more, just having fun connecting the dots in various ways as usual, thats always fun to do with others, its a blessing for sure.

God bless you brother

Hey, awesome that you saw that in the baptism of Jesus. He did come out of the water also and John was filled with joy.

Please keep your socks on. It's cold you know.