John 2:3,4

[rogueriver]

"My hour is not come" - the hour of faith that was that was to come to those who would hear his ministry. The marriage feast seems like the starting point for his ministry for his disciples believed upon him.

Galatians 3:
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

who could the ruler of the feast represent? Faith? Joy? the Spirit?

 

[x141]

Father. The best wine is for last. Six pots of water, the seventh becomes a pot of Life, Feast of Tabernalces, the feast of One. The baring of the wine to the Father, from passover to pentecost to Tabernacles, One, God all in all, a feast of Weeks. This celebration after all is about the beginning of the week, after the seventh Day, the first day of the week, the Day after the fortynineth year, the two become One, all things testify of Him, this One, God, Father, what name is suffcient for that which knowledge can not find. The Father is Life, knowledge, the woman, the tree is a path that leads unto destruction. Jesus looked on this and said but she would not have it, this gathering into One. This is spiritualy called Jerusalem, where the Lord was crucified. Where the Word became passover, on a tree. This tree even makes the word passover into something less than Him.

 

[rogueriver]

How about the "ruler of the feast" being the ear or the hearing? The ruler of the feast did not know from where the wine came from.

John 2:9
When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

This is comparable to John 3:8. One can hear the sound but not be able to tell where it came from.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it came, and where it goes: so is everyone that is born of the Spirit.

The ear can "taste" like the mouth tastes food. See Job 12:11.How about a sip of wine?

 

[Fireinfolding]

That one would be trickier for me, I cant say rogueriver. If it were the Spirit, he would know, so sorta feels weird to put that on the Spirit but not so wrong on the lesser (the spirit?) Not sure as His Spirit (the greater) bears witness with our spirit (the lesser) but being joined to the Lord they are one Spirit, and we have a wedding, or union and the changing of water to wine discernable to the ruler of the feast.

I cant say really bro, I can only guess, someone else could probrobly help you more then I can. But speaks of a man ruling his own spirit elsewhere and of the governor in other ways, but theres too many for me to look at in a glance and you should know by now Im not good at that

Fridays, I gotta head out and cant give myself to this thing, I love fridays (I mentioned that before). But you have given me something to think about, I just dont know to be honest.

God bless you bro

 

[x141]

Job 42:5-6 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

Here there is a turning, as John was turned, to behold the Bridegroom but the Revealing of the Bridegroom is the Father even as the Son is the revealing of the bride.

 

[Seeking His Face]

Jesus spake of his death, and the shedding of his blood(wine.) Wine is symbolic of blood, just as Jesus showed at the last supper when he took the wine and said to his disciples"Drink you all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

It is written that a covenant is not in effect until the death of the testator, and the sprinkling of blood. This is the baptism Jesus spake of, which is the blood of purification.

But no man is able to recieve the New wine unless he is made a new vessel by being born again of the Holy Spirit; just as Jesus spake in this parable...

Luke 5:37-39

King James Version (KJV)



37And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.
38But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. 39No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

This response makes the most sense to me. Thank you all for the interesting insights.

 

[rogueriver]

A little more exploration here:

The ear can be like a “taste tester” in the same way a mouth does. It can evaluate what it hears.

Job 12:11 Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?

Can the ear (the ruler of the feast being spiritually the ear?) be a “wine tester” or taster in which it hears the Spirit of Truth and determines that this is the “best wine” ?

The ruler of the feast (the ear?) did not know from where the wine came from but determined that it was the best yet.

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

The ear (the ruler of the feast?) can hear the preaching of the Spirit but not know from where it comes from (it comes from the Bridegroom).

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The ear is the “governor of the feast” perhaps? For with the ear, we hear His Spirit and can partake of the tree of life, the hidden manna, the water of life, the best “wine”.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The ruler of the feast called for the bridegroom. Per instruction, His servants had given him the wine to taste but how could the ruler of the feast have called for him without being served the “wine” first. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

How can one call upon the Bridegroom without first having faith? How can one have faith without first hearing the gospel of peace being preached to them by His servants that bear it to them?

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Jeremiah 33:11 The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.

 

[x141]

Only The Seed or the Bridegroom comes from a place no knowledge can find. Like The high priest of passover, mary and the ruler of the feast did, unknowingly they spoke Truth not themselves knowing even as it came out of their mouths, this is why when you are preaching to people , inside you, to people who are not there you say things that you have not heard and then when you think on them they become a wandering to the point of not quite remebering what you saw. It becomes full of worms. This is the Truth cast down and the building of a city like a well fastened nail even a reed like unto a rod, a little leaven. The tree of knowledge, the woman has a covering, the man. Moses' tabernacle is a picture of this woman. Her covering is of ram and badger skin, both clean and unclean both good and evil, that which is without the camp, dyed red which is adam, an image and a likeness. The knowledge of good and evil. What you are to lose to gain. The fruit of the tree will yeild itself to you without eating. The seed of the woman, the Life of the woman is God. No beginning and no end. Knowledge, this tree is the sacrifice of God, the purchase of the possesion. The price was the possesion. This is the last supper of the great God.

Hos 8:5 Thy calf, O Samaria, hath cast thee off; mine anger is kindled against them: how long will it be ere they attain to innocency?
Isa 6:13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.

 

[Fireinfolding]

A little more exploration here:

The ear can be like a “taste tester” in the same way a mouth does. It can evaluate what it hears.

Job 12:11 Doth not the ear try words? and the mouth taste his meat?

Can the ear (the ruler of the feast being spiritually the ear?) be a “wine tester” or taster in which it hears the Spirit of Truth and determines that this is the “best wine” ?

The ruler of the feast (the ear?) did not know from where the wine came from but determined that it was the best yet.

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,

The ear (the ruler of the feast?) can hear the preaching of the Spirit but not know from where it comes from (it comes from the Bridegroom).

John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The ear is the “governor of the feast” perhaps? For with the ear, we hear His Spirit and can partake of the tree of life, the hidden manna, the water of life, the best “wine”.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

The ruler of the feast called for the bridegroom. Per instruction, His servants had given him the wine to taste but how could the ruler of the feast have called for him without being served the “wine” first. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

How can one call upon the Bridegroom without first having faith? How can one have faith without first hearing the gospel of peace being preached to them by His servants that bear it to them?

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


Jeremiah 33:11 The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the LORD of hosts: for the LORD is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the LORD.

Like this one too bro, the combination of voices, or "together with" even as the working together of the same can be seen in the picture.

We can also do things "through the Spirit", like if we "through" the Spirit put to death the deeds of the body we shall live. Theres a labouring "together with" God etc. The function of the freind of the bridegroom (or as the law and the prophets) until John (water there) in preparation for the bridegroom, even the Lamb of God (the blood of Christ) the water into wine (and the discples of John) the passing over (or as hearing Christ). Even as John said, I must decrease, and He must increase type thing. All can be seen as working toward the same end, namely Christ and Christ formed in us, the treasure in our earthen vessels, the gift of God in combination bringing forth both (out of this treasure) things old and things new type thing.

And I have a short attention span too (unfortunately). I will often just find something I see applying, compareably so, if only just a little and just as quickly set it aside. but only to come back to it later when it becomes more clear to me. Still cant say or add too much.

God bless you brother its always encouraging to behold another brother or sister working it out. Or just observing their own "tuning into" what the Spirit is speaking of (and to) in the scripture. Sorta like watching them work it out (and hearing the sound)... thats encouraging actually.

Whether in part or perhaps more fully, its a blessing either way, keep it up

 

[peterlindner]

Jesus said it was not his time AND IMMEDIATELY responded WHEN his time was; in a parable like usual.

Resurrection day is His time. Nisan16 5,773 March 27th, 2013

The unique link between his time and the number of beverage servings in the pots is they line up almost anyway that you count them. If you dig deep into Mark 7 you will find reference to the cups being called sextarius. The waterpots were used to wash the forearms (or cubits). A sextarius has a 1.5 relationship (like a cubit to a foot) to the pint.
There are 48 sextarius, 72 pints, or 9 gallons in a firkin.
1 pot=2 firkin=96 sextarius (also 3 months and 6 paces of David & Ark=96 days from winter solstice.
6 pots by gallons=108=15weeks (furlongs)& 4 days (Lazarus) from Kislev24.
2 pots=2x96=192 from the beginning of year Tishrei 1 (trumpets)
4 pots=384=384 days from Purim
6 pots=6x96=576 from Av28/29 This is the end of the 2nd Benjamite wedding week (Jacob had to fulfill two weddings). Resurrection day is also 222 from Av28/29 which is Solomon's yearly Gold allowance. With deep digging it is also revealed that this day is the true Pentecost.

"Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God."

 

[x141]

Pentecost (50) ... year of jubilee 50th ... where dualitiy or knowledge (two fruits/sons etc) go free or become one. The place of no labor.

The word (bible) like all things that it was made by has no depth, does not produce anything less than itself or rather himself, anythng less is a lie, so in truth all things have no measurment other than the measurment we have bound it with ... like the numbering of Israel (firstborn/son in us) there must be a sacrifice for every soul or a pouring out to come into agreement with God. We are truly one with him now which becomes the manifestation through faith of this same redeeming of creation/kowledge (a wilderness that becomes a garden) that the man of sin has bound having all along been in us from before the beginning, being we are in him.

 

[peterlindner]

Pentecost (50) ... year of jubilee 50th ... where dualitiy or knowledge (two fruits/sons etc) go free or become one. The place of no labor.

The word (bible) like all things that it was made by has no depth, does not produce anything less than itself or rather himself, anythng less is a lie, so in truth all things have no measurment other than the measurment we have bound it with ... like the numbering of Israel (firstborn/son in us) there must be a sacrifice for every soul or a pouring out to come into agreement with God. We are truly one with him now which becomes the manifestation through faith of this same redeeming of creation/kowledge (a wilderness that becomes a garden) that the man of sin has bound having all along been in us from before the beginning, being we are in him.

In Isaiah it "happens suddenly". Although poetic the above sounds like Paul's transformation of the mind which is a slow climb up babel.

Penta does mean 50; but the start of the count makes the difference. When Adonijah self proclaimed himself King he had 50 run before him. It wasn't till after that time that God's timing was revealed. The Word DOES have depth. When the king sent messengers to Elijah calling him a man of God, the captain and fifty were struck down twice. This points me to a different interpretation of the feast of weeks...49+50. Further more Moses and Hezekiah show that Passover is a month late for those on a journey or effected by death. Mathew 25 says the kingdom is as a man on a journey. Therefore the Pentecost for God's elect is 49+50+30 or AV28/29. This is also 2 weeks after the Benjamite wedding. This is the FULL fulfillment of the 2 weeks (Jacob's wedding).

 

[x141]

God is not measured and found wanting ... but of course, without a serpent there is no process.

The slow walk up babel is as the wandering in the wilderness between two mountains, which can be found everywhere the process is found as it is found in the two weeks, two seeds, sons, mountains, cities, kingdoms, thrones, cups, rivers, trees, revealings, elder/younger, two days, two thousand cubits, the man and the woman, heaven and earth, etc, etc, etc, the first rest being unto death, and the three feasts of this perception summed up in one.

Paul from one view is as an Ishmael, but even for Peter, his perception of the words All flesh were measured, but these are not out of order ... the whole earth is filled with his glory.

You can not by thought add one cubit to your stature ... for you, this should be elementry, and we should know not to uncover another's nakedness.

 

[x141]

Every encounter becomes a garden secnario, good or bad, or indifferent. The Bible teaches the mechanics of this secnario, a sending forth, a point in time, and a returning, which is the testimony of Jesus Christ, and the sum of the whole being the end and beginning of this realm we live in.

Here is some of the ways nakedness is revealed, concering the two weeks of a woman's labor ... in picture.


1Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
2"Speak to the children of Israel, saying: ‘If a woman has conceived, and borne a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days; as in the days of her customary impurity she shall be unclean.
3And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
4She shall then continue in the blood of her purification thirty-three days. She shall not touch any hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled.
5‘But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her customary impurity, and she shall continue in the blood of her purification sixty-six days.


One week for a male child plus thirty three days to complete forty days of impurity. Or the introduction of the first forty being masculine.

Two weeks for the female child!! Plus sixty six days to complete eighty days of impurity. Revealing the second forty as feminine.


Now look at (some of ) the various times of forty days and forty years to see the same revealing.


Moses goes up to Mount Sinai during the whole ten commandments thing and fast forty days and forty nights. As we all know the children of Israel corrupted themselves rebelled against God because of the golden calf and Moses has to come down and bring order to the camp.


If one reads the account in Exodus, Moses destroys the golden calf and the Levite's go into the midst of Israel and kill three thousand of their brethren.


If one reads the Deuteronomy account Moses comes down from the Mount breaks the two stones and falls down and fasts another forty days and forty nights. A total of Eighty days of fasting.


So we see the literal application of the forty and eighty days explained in the Word. The idea that forty days is masculine and eighty days is feminine will be seen more clearly...

It is at this time that when the Children of Israel sin with the golden calf that the Levite's go throughout the camp and kill three thousand people.

Had the Children of Israel not sinned with the golden calf then there would have only been forty days of fasting and therefore the first born would have remained as God's choice or the revealed masculine, but they sinned and Moses fasted another forty days a total of eighty days and the firstborn was rejected and the Levite's were taken or chosen instead of God's firstborn son which is feminine because this act introduces the system of religion that one must perform to please God ...


Let's look at another example ...


When the Children of Israel went to spy out the land of promise they looked over the land for forty days. We all know this story... The spies came back with a bad report and convinced the people not to go into the land, God was very angry as one can imagine ...


The first forty days was the time of impurity for a son... But they rebelled and were forced to roam the wilderness for forty years ...


Eighty, the time of impurity for a girl ...


We see here the introduction of the feminine ...


Remember when Adam needed a helpmate? God opened a door with a rib and revealed the woman, not another person but duality in Adam his mind will and intellect cast down into this worldly realm. As this begins to open up we begin to see that the first forty is masculine, but if there is rebellion then the second forty is revealed which is feminine and reveals our nakedness ...


When the Children of Israel refused to enter into the land after forty days of spying, a door was opened. (Something much bigger is going on here. You must read the preceding chapters in Numbers before the Children of Israel refused to enter into the land. They complain before God and God sends them manna which is bread from heaven and quail which is meat that flies in the heavens, before they refused to enter into the land. I don't want to get side tracked.) Let's go back to a door being opened. They rebelled, they rebelled, they rebelled... Rebellion reveals the second forty!!!



As previously stated the first forty is masculine and the second forty reveals the feminine.


Our first known forty is with Noah when it rained for forty days and forty nights. So far we see the masculine, because there is no rebellion, or is there? After the flood all get off the Ark and Noah becomes a farmer and plants a vineyard and gets drunk. Ham uncovers his father's nakedness... I explained previously.

Look what is happening here. From Adam to Noah we have ten. Noah has three sons, masculine. However one son (Ham) uncovers his father's nakedness, just like Adam and Eve's nakedness was uncovered. Just like in the Book of Revelations a third of the stars have just been cast down, two sons didn't see their father's nakedness and one son did, so here we begin to see the introduction of the feminine. Ham's son Canaan is cursed or we have the revealing of the forty and this gives birth to the line of the feminine or the immoral woman. Eve?

The next time we see a forty is when the Children of Israel come out of Egyp/Israel/flesh... They were in captivity for four hundred and thirty years.

God rebelled against all of humanity by separating out a people unto Himself or as God called them His firstborn son, singular. The thirty is a number that is one tenth of three hundred ...


Remember the Ark? Three hundred cubits long? Thirty is one tenth of three hundred. Enoch walked with God three hundred years or can we say that Enoch walked (three hundred) the perfect will of God and the thirty is the tithe of our individual walk to reveal that perfect walk/revealing in us.


Enoch walked out the revealing of one forty, for God took him.

So now the children of Israel are in the wilderness... Moses fasts on the mount for forty days and forty nights. The Children of Israel rebel and worship the golden calf, a door is opened. Moses comes down from the mount and fast another forty days and forty nights... We see the woman being revealed ... God rejects His Firstborn son whom He delivered out of the bondage of Israel and takes the Levite's, the priesthood, and the law instead. But it gets a little better ... Because hidden in the dimensions of the Tabernacle of Moses is the revealing of the sixty six. Or the number left over from the first two weeks of uncleanness of a woman who gave birth to a daughter.


Each time we see two forties we see a casting down.

So while in the wilderness the spies spy out the land for forty days, masculine ... But they rebel and out of fear they don't enter into the land, so they spend forty years in the wilderness revealing the eighty or feminine.


So now the Children of Israel enter into a land peopled with the curse of Canaan from the first round of forties with Noah ... etc. etc. etc.

When Adam went into a deep sleep and his rib was taken that was a forty ... When they, Adam and the woman ate from the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, their eyes were opened that was the second forty... Revealing their nakedness ... Noah's son Ham as well.

The summary is this ... If you have not had the son revealed in you, then you don't really know your father, a father is known by his son ... things are much bigger then our little insights into this realm we have always been in, and am coming to see. A verse like " those that do not have the son do not have the father" ... is meant to separate you, in this your nakedness is revealed and the need because of this thought, a redeeming of the thought, or the one that was lost, or what we thought that we lost, we opposed ourselves, by taking thought, and not obeying the commandment of the father, but this is how it was supposed to be ... though he slay me, yet will I trust in him, he has wounded us and he will heal us, this is learned, every seed begins in death or the eve ... ning.