John 16:12(Denys Sola Scriptura)

[Renton405]

I was at mass Today and when we came to the Gospel reading it was John 16-12:16... It says


"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
"A little while and you will no longer see me, and again a little while later and you will see me."



Here Jesus Christ tells the apostles that he has MUCH MORE to tell them, but that he cannot now.. And that it will only to come to them later on in the holy spirit..

If Christ claims he has more to tell them that means all what was written in the gospel has not been 100% fully proclaimed yet.. and only later on the holy spirit will proclaim to the apostles and the church later messages and declarations

Later John says at the end of his Gospel:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written. - John -21:25

How can sola Scriptura be true if Christ says he has much more to tell us..

How can you limit it to one book if it says that all the books could not contain all of what Jesus did..Wouldn't this be a contradiction in terms??

If an apostle was speaking from the holy spirit, but it happened to not get written down at the time.. would that not be the Word of God simply because it wasn't written down??

 

[IamAdopted]

I was at mass Today and when we came to the Gospel reading it was John 16-12:16... It says


"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
"A little while and you will no longer see me, and again a little while later and you will see me."



Here Jesus Christ tells the apostles that he has MUCH MORE to tell them, but that he cannot now.. And that it will only to come to them later on in the holy spirit..

If Christ claims he has more to tell them that means all what was written in the gospel has not been 100% fully proclaimed yet.. and only later on the holy spirit will proclaim to the apostles and the church later messages and declarations

Later John says at the end of his Gospel:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written. - John -21:25

How can sola Scriptura be true if Christ says he has much more to tell us..

How can you limit it to one book if it says that all the books could not contain all of what Jesus did..Wouldn't this be a contradiction in terms??

If an apostle was speaking from the holy spirit, but it happened to not get written down at the time.. would that not be the Word of God simply because it wasn't written down??

The holy Spirit came.. He showed Paul the mysteries that were hidden from times past. He has revealed it to them through the Holy Spirit and they peached and wrote it down.. Very simple. We only Have the Apostles that Christ Chose. This is why what the Spirit revealed They wrote and preached. The scriptures are all the truth that we need until Christ comes and sets up the forever kingdom with the new heaven and the new earth. Don't let deception keep you from the glorious truth of Gods word and lead you to the teaching of men.

 

[christianmomof3]

The Lord is still speaking to us all the time. However, what is in the Bible is what is scripture - logos - the constant written word. What He speaks to us is rhema - the living, active, instant, inspired and applied word.

 

[TigerBunny]

I was at mass Today and when we came to the Gospel reading it was John 16-12:16... It says


"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
"A little while and you will no longer see me, and again a little while later and you will see me."



Here Jesus Christ tells the apostles that he has MUCH MORE to tell them, but that he cannot now.. And that it will only to come to them later on in the holy spirit..

If Christ claims he has more to tell them that means all what was written in the gospel has not been 100% fully proclaimed yet.. and only later on the holy spirit will proclaim to the apostles and the church later messages and declarations

Later John says at the end of his Gospel:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written. - John -21:25

How can sola Scriptura be true if Christ says he has much more to tell us..

How can you limit it to one book if it says that all the books could not contain all of what Jesus did..Wouldn't this be a contradiction in terms??

If an apostle was speaking from the holy spirit, but it happened to not get written down at the time.. would that not be the Word of God simply because it wasn't written down??

Two things that will perhaps help you further your studies and answer your questions:

1) Do some reading on Pentacost
2) Note that John's words at the end of the Gospel. The operative word is "did". Past tense. This can cover all of Creation and what He has done for us. I agree with John in his estimation.

What Jesus has yet to do John covers in Revelation.

 

[New_Wineskin]

I was at mass Today and when we came to the Gospel reading it was John 16-12:16... It says


"I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.
He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
Everything that the Father has is mine; for this reason I told you that he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.
"A little while and you will no longer see me, and again a little while later and you will see me."


Later John says at the end of his Gospel:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written. - John -21:25

How can sola Scriptura be true if Christ says he has much more to tell us..

Yep . They are a good variation of what the prophet quoted in the letter called "Hebrews" stated as the essence of the New Covenant . They wipe out both Scripture Only and Tradition at the same time .

 

[Vasileios]

Logos (Λόγο&#962 is not scripture. That is graphi or graphai (plural) (Γραφή or Γραφα&#943.

 

[Markea]

God's book...

I often wonder why any professing Christian would start a thread which would belittle the word of God, rather than thank God and praise Him for it.

Christians are born again through the incorruptible word of God, they're sanctified by its truth, they're washed by it, faith comes by it.. and most importantly.. in the volume of the book it is written of Him.. our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ..

So again, I struggle to understand why any professing Christian would start a thread like this.. they should be praising God for the word of God which speaks to His eternal glory, matchless love, and grace.. which is greater than all our sin..

What we have in the scriptures is living and abiding, it will NEVER be exhausted in its ability and power to speak to the hearts and minds of God's people..

 

[OldWiseGuy]

What was it that they "couldn't bear"? It was thought that Jesus was referring to his own imminent death. But many believed that he would be killed eventually by either the Romans or the Pharisees. So his disciples were certainly prepared for that.

Reading through the rest of the NT it is hard to imagine anything there that would be so onerous that Jesus' disciples 'couldn't bear it'.

Scripture alone is sufficient for instruction concerning salvation and proper living, etc. but there is much much more that is not revealed that leads to greater understanding of what this whole thing is about.

I believe that there are things yet to be revealed that even today's church could not bear to hear. I believe that God's two witnesses will reveal these truths.

 

[Markea]

What was it that they "couldn't bear"? It was thought that Jesus was referring to his own imminent death. But many believed that he would be killed eventually by either the Romans or the Pharisees. So his disciples were certainly prepared for that.

The scriptures testify to the opposite imo.. that they couldn't understand that.. at least the enormity of what Calvary was ultimately going to accomplish.

Reading through the rest of the NT it is hard to imagine anything there that would be so onerous that Jesus' disciples 'couldn't bear it'.

Himself being the passover Lamb.. because prior to the Spirit of God being sent at Pentecost.. they all forsook Him.. although afterwards.. they preached Him and multitudes were saved.

Scripture alone is sufficient for instruction concerning salvation and proper living, etc. but there is much much more that is not revealed that leads to greater understanding of what this whole thing is about.

I often think about the fact that I have barely scratched the surface of God's word.. and how that it is living and powerful.. it's limitless in its ability and power to speak to humanity.. for His words are SPIRIT and they are LIFE.

I believe that there are things yet to be revealed that even today's church could not bear to hear. I believe that God's two witnesses will reveal these truths.

The Revelation certainly goes into much detail concerning the judgment which is coming upon this world.. although even though He tells of it before it happens.. we often miss the true enormity of it all..

God help us to reach those that are lost and dead in trespasses and in sins.. because although He is longsuffering.. the door will close one day.. and today, the day of salvation, will finally give way to tomorrow.. the judgment and wrath of God which is to come..

IT begins with the house of God.. imagine what it will be like for those who continue to reject the gospel of God concerning His Son..?

 

[Oblio]

I often wonder why any professing Christian would start a thread ...

So again, I struggle to understand why any professing Christian would start a thread like this..

It's a little early for Scotch, don'tcha think ?

 

[simonthezealot]

:

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written. - John -21:25

These multitude of miracles and such needn't be written down as they are not necessary unto salvation. Elsewise the scriptures themselves would be contradicting.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)



16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Oblio]

simon, are you claiming that everything Christ spoke and taught has been written in Scripture ?

 

[simonthezealot]

simon, are you claiming that everything Christ spoke and taught has been written in Scripture ?

No read my quote again.

 

[GorrionGris]

I think the OP was addressing more an exagerated doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

Sola Scriptura simply says that all a Christian needs for salvation and edification is contained in Scripture; or so I have been taught.

 

[Oblio]

No read my quote again.

I read it the first time. To interpret Scripture as you have, is to make the claim that if the multitudes of what Christ said and did were written down, then Scripture would not be complete. This is self fullfilling claim, and as such is meaningless.

I'll ask again:

Did everything Christ say and teach get written into Scripture ?

Additionally, do you believe that everything needed for our salvation is written in Scripture ?

 

[Markea]

It's a little early for Scotch, don'tcha think ?

Yes.. but what's that got to do with endless threads of professing Christians belittling the word of God by which we're born again, sanctified, washed, and fed..?

I'd think that there would be a little more thanksgiving in this area.. evidently not.

 

[Markea]

Additionally, do you believe that everything needed for our salvation is written in Scripture ?

I certainly do.. don't you ? And if not.. what would you claim to be lacking..?

 

[Oblio]

I certainly do.. don't you ? And if not.. what would you claim to be lacking..?

The remainder of the word of God, Apostolic teachings, and the life of the Holy Spirit as revealed in His Church. IOW, the rest of Holy Tradition.

 

[GorrionGris]

...a thought that quikly came...

would not it be to love God sufficient to be saved?

 

[Oblio]

Yes.. but what's that got to do with endless threads of professing Christians belittling the word of God by which we're born again, sanctified, washed, and fed..?

Belittling ? I don't think so, maybe belittling your particular tradition regarding the word of God, but I haven't seen anyone belittle the word of God, except perhaps those that ignore that portion that is not contained in Holy Scripture.