John 10:10

[eutychus]

This may be a silly post given that I lean toward idiocy, but I was reading through John 10 today and stumbled across John 10:10.
"The thief comes only to steal and kill, and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

For years I've heard this passage quoted implying that Satan is the thief, but the context seems to say nothing of the sort. In context, Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

So technically, all false teachers are thieves. I suppose the argument could then be made that "Satan drives the false teacher" but I still think that's stretching it and giving Satan too much credit for puppeteering human nature.

Thoughts to help me clear this up?

 

[St. Worm2]

This may be a silly post given that I lean toward idiocy, but I was reading through John 10 today and stumbled across John 10:10.

"The thief comes only to steal and kill, and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

For years I've heard this passage quoted implying that Satan is the thief, but the context seems to say nothing of the sort. In context, Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

So technically, all false teachers are thieves. I suppose the argument could then be made that "Satan drives the false teacher" but I still think that's stretching it and giving Satan too much credit for puppeteering human nature.

Thoughts to help me clear this up?

This is hardly a silly post, in fact, I think it is quite a good question. The fact of the matter though is that the Text doesn't TRULY tell us who the "thief" is. Satan himself would be one candidate, false teachers as Satan's "ministers" would be another, and there were a lot of Messiah wannabees running around at that time too. Of course, it needn't even be stated that He is absolutely NOT talking about the true OT prophets or John the Baptist.

It seems to me that He was most likely referring to the very folks who were already right there when His ministry began, the Sadducees, the Pharisees, the Scribes, and/or the Sanhedrin. In fact, if the Book of John is running chronologically at this point, it would probably be the Pharisees He was referring to as they were in His face just prior to this event at the end of John, Chapter 9 (see v40). The Pharisees were determined to undermine Christ's ministry and were certainly capable of threats and intimidation (see Jn 9:22) ... or worse ... to hang onto or regain their position of prominence and honor (no matter what the eternal cost to the people they were supposed to be shepherding).

The Text also states: "All who came before Me ARE (not "were") thieves and robbers". The thieves and robbers being referred to had not disappeared, they were still present, yes!? I give my vote to the Pharisees.

Yours and His,
David

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.​

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves." Matthew 23:13-15

 

[rainbowprism]

I take the thief to be a metaphor for death, which it the ultimate wage of sin. Jesus has defeated the power of death and has the power to forgive sins and betstow eternal life.

 

[St. Worm2]

I take the thief to be a metaphor for death, which it the ultimate wage of sin. Jesus has defeated the power of death and has the power to forgive sins and betstow eternal life.

Hi RP, that's an interesting concept, but how do you fit v8's meaning, and/or the context of this passage in general, into the "Death" metaphor?

"All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them." John 10:8

Thanks!

--David

 

[rainbowprism]

Well see sins=death.

So I would say that sin can slowly erode and ultimatley kill a person that doesn't have relationship with God. People that are involved in unrepentant sinful activity, including those who speak wrongly of God, are included. Ut should be understood that in light of the OT concept of 'shepard', symbolizeing a royal caretaker of God's people. God himseld was called the "Shepard of Isreal" (Ps 80:1, Isa. 40:10-11, Eze 34:11-16) and he had given great responsibility to the leaders ("shepards") of Isreal, which they failed to respect. God denounced these false shepards (Isa 56:9-12; Eze 34) and promised to provide the true Shepherd, or Messiah, to care for the sheep of God (Eze 34:23)

 

[mark kennedy]

I can quote Scripture but obviously I'm not the author. It is even possible that people are on the same page with the Devil and not realize that he even exists. He is not stupid, he's not going to pop-up and say 'Hi, I'm Satan and I'm here to ruin your soul'. What comes to mind reading the passage from John is the parable of the sower where the seed falls on certain kinds of soil (hard, weeds, shallow) but some of it falls on the side of the road. Birds eat the seed beside the road effectivly 'stealing' the Word of God from the casual listener of the Gospel. Its interesting that most often the condition of the heart seems to be what chocks the Word and keeps the individule from being fruitfull. There are other times that the Devil (demons, devilish people...etc) just steals it away.

When it comes to theives stealing sheep chances are they aren't shepards themselves and they are not going to sell the to other shepards, too many questions. They most likly just slaughtered them and took whatever they could carry, skins, meat, the point being that it ended badly for the sheep.

One other point I think might be worth mentioning, the Devil is not omnipotent. I had a Pastor once who used to say Flip Wilson's 'the devil made me due it set theology back hundreds of years. Most of the time when you fall into sin or a false teacher becomes a wolf in sheeps clothing its because the wanted to. There are other times that they follow the spiritual vibes Satan puts out the way you can catch certain radio frequencies if you tune your radio just right. Thats how he sets his traps and then just runs his traps systematicly to see who may have gotten caught.

Thats my two cents worth.

 

[daveleau]

This may be a silly post given that I lean toward idiocy, but I was reading through John 10 today and stumbled across John 10:10.
"The thief comes only to steal and kill, and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

For years I've heard this passage quoted implying that Satan is the thief, but the context seems to say nothing of the sort. In context, Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly."

So technically, all false teachers are thieves. I suppose the argument could then be made that "Satan drives the false teacher" but I still think that's stretching it and giving Satan too much credit for puppeteering human nature.

Thoughts to help me clear this up?

My studies of thsi passage have led me to the belief that the context is talking about false teachers. The Greek used here has specific connotations. To us, thieves and robbers are the same thing, but to His audience at the time (in the Greek), they had different connotations, hence Christ's use of both words. The thief is one who blatantly comes in to steal and destroy while the robber is there to appear genuine but secretly have motives for self benefit.

In today's society, the ACLU could be an example of the thief. They come in to destroy Christianity and limit our religious freedoms because our beliefs are contrary to their goal of acceptance of everything. An example of a robber would be Jim Baker. He ran a televangelism ministry and a Christian theme park in NC. He was caught embezzling funds.

We are to watch for both. Both are sent by Satan, but the context does not lead me to believe Christ was talking about Satan himself. I would say that this is a poor interpretation of the Scripture based ont eh context. This does not mean that Satan does not come to steal and destroy- I just simply wouldn't refer to this passage when talking about Satan directly.

 

[eutychus]

In today's society, the ACLU could be an example of the thief. They come in to destroy Christianity and limit our religious freedoms because our beliefs are contrary to their goal of acceptance of everything.

That's so hilarious, it's sad that it's true.

One other point I think might be worth mentioning, the Devil is not omnipotent. I had a Pastor once who used to say Flip Wilson's 'the devil made me due it set theology back hundreds of years.

Amen, brother! Though I'm a fan of Wilson, it is tragic that most of today's evangelical laity have based their theology from that very statement.

The Text also states: "All who came before Me ARE (not "were") thieves and robbers". The thieves and robbers being referred to had not disappeared, they were still present, yes!? I give my vote to the Pharisees.

Thank you for that insight! Good call on the verb tense.

 

[Dead Man Walking]

I think that this verse is specifically speaking about false prophet, but DO NOT let that bring justice to the enemy of our souls, because we don't even have to be told that Satan is out to Kill, Still, and Destroy. May God Bless Your Paying Attention To Something That Most People Would Overlook!

 

[antondee]

Ezekiel 28:12-19
Is God talking to just a King? Or is the message directed at two? Could God be directing the message also to the power behind the King?

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Steal, kill, destroy.
To me, the whole Bible is mystical: Having a spiritual meaning or reality that is neither apparent to the senses nor obvious to the intelligence (Webster).
Any attempt to approach this book with logic and common sense leads into distortion. Especially Apostle John. I have to believe that the phrase is about Satan. John exposed a tactic of Satan. Let's say, I witnessed to you. If you accept Jesus as your savior you have eternal life. Right? Anyone have a problem with that?? If you die right now are you destroyed? No. Your soul have eternal life. What if I was killed BEFORE I witnessed to you and now you were to die, not receiving the Word, are you saved? To steal your salvation, then kill you, your soul is ruined.
He would still try and kill you if you're saved because, by killing you, he's performing a 'steal, kill, destroy' on someone else before they get the Word. If he can't stop the message, then he will try and distort it. If you read the Bible with common sense and human logic, you may be the next sitting target.

Nothing in the Bible should be handled as loose jargon. Nothing.

 

[hola]

I don't think that I read anything by anyone using the parable from Matthew 22:1-14

(vv.11-14)
"And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: and he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkenss; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen."

I believe that it also could be the Pharisees, or any such who did not enter in by receiving the garment that was provided that they would have received if they came in through the door. And we know that Jesus is the door, and that garment would be his (God's) righteousness. So, this man came in somehow, and may have even looked "clean" enough to get in...I believe that he had on his own righteousness, not Christ's. We know that the scribes and the Pharisees strove for perfection in their flesh according to the law.

I conclude by this, whether they are a prophet or not, if you try to get in by your own righteousness and not Christ's, you're just not going to stay very long.

 

[jdrahnonfire]

You're right it doesn't indicate Satan as the thief and Jesus is speaking in regards to those coming before him and after him. Josephus tells us that there was messiah's before Jesus' time, one who went to the top of the temple and jumped off thinking he could fly. Another one was an Egyptian who made alot of fuss. And after him, there are many who claim they are Jesus or the messiah.
Remember the ninth chapter of Daniel when Gabriel tells Daniel something of the end of time. Verse 25-26 he says the Meshiac shall be cut off' (this means executed and killed) "and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;.."
the prince to come is the anti-christ coming up through the reformed Roman government. The city was destroyed in 70 A.D. and the sanctuary (The temple).
Jesus says before this to the Pharisees that they are of their father, the devil, for he has been sinning since the beginning. Ideally Satan does come to steal, kill and destroy. Yet what you said is exactly right, it is those who claim they are Jesus at that time and in the future.