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Joe Six-Pack American?

Fantine

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Originally Posted by Matthew_18:14 You may believe what you want to believe, but I would submit that a leader doesn't have to know everything to be a good leader. A leader needs to know how to ask questions and who those questions should be directed too. Wisdom comes from knowing what you don't know, not from the belief that you know everything (this isn't directed at Obama). So if, like you say, ambition is overtaking ability, then yes, she wouldn't make a good president, but if she can lead and knows how to ask the right questions, then she would make a fine president.

In order to know the right questions to ask, you need to be able to listen.

Palin demonstrated that she was not able to listen at the debate last night as she was given question after question and proceeded to ignore each one completely, giving folksy sort of speeches, short on details (except for the fake details she tried to pass on about Obama and Biden.)

I wondered it was some sort of odd brain freeze one gets when they spend too many hours in a minivan with 5 children jabbering all at once that enables one just to tune it all out.

It was the most bizarre debate experience I have ever seen.

BTW, I was a debate/forensics HS parent, and using their rules, her "team" would have lost completely, since speaking about everything but the issue at hand doesn't give you any points.
 
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ParsonJefferson

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In order to know the right questions to ask, you need to be able to listen.

Palin demonstrated that she was not able to listen at the debate last night as she was given question after question and proceeded to ignore each one completely, giving folksy sort of speeches, short on details (except for the fake details she tried to pass on about Obama and Biden.)

I wondered it was some sort of odd brain freeze one gets when they spend too many hours in a minivan with 5 children jabbering all at once that enables one just to tune it all out.

It was the most bizarre debate experience I have ever seen.

BTW, I was a debate/forensics HS parent, and using their rules, her "team" would have lost completely, since speaking about everything but the issue at hand doesn't give you any points.

Ooooooooo... An EXPERT in the field of PRESIDENTIAL debates!

The political icon by your username says everything. You hate Palin, and everything she is, says and does is wrong. End of the story.

Very typical.
 
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Bill_monkey

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The founding principle was that people would be in charge...not the elite.

Claiming that elite = educated is delusional. There are plenty of qualified, down to earth, well learned man and women around. And there are plent of absolutely ignorant elite people.

"The unity of Government, which constitutes you one people, is also now dear to you. It is justly so; for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquillity at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very Liberty, which you so highly prize. But as it is easy to foresee, that, from different causes and from different quarters, much pains will be taken, many artifices employed, to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth; as this is the point in your political fortress against which the batteries of internal and external enemies will be most constantly and actively (though often covertly and insidiously) directed, it is of infinite moment, that you should properly estimate the immense value of your national Union to your collective and individual happiness; that you should cherish a cordial, habitual, and immovable attachment to it; accustoming yourselves to think and speak of it as of the Palladium of your political safety and prosperity; watching for its preservation with jealous anxiety; discountenancing whatever may suggest even a suspicion, that it can in any event be abandoned; and indignantly frowning upon the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties which now link together the various parts."

"All obstructions to the execution of the Laws, all combinations and associations, under whatever plausible character, with the real design to direct, control, counteract, or awe the regular deliberation and action of the constituted authorities, are destructive of this fundamental principle, and of fatal tendency. They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels, and modified by mutual interests. However combinations or associations of the above description may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely, in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people, and to usurp for themselves the reins of government; destroying afterwards the very engines, which have lifted them to unjust dominion."



Can you even guess the speaker?
 
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Bill_monkey

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WOW! most sensible post in this thread so far.

That was hardly sensible. I work in a field in which I have to try to learn new things about the world. Each day I face decisions that no other person has had to make. But that doesn't mean that I don't need to know anything or that its not that important to know anything about the subject. Even if I have assistance from experts, its still essential that I know what has been done in related experiments and why its been done in that manner for me to construct and perform effective new experiments.

You can't be ignorant and have good judgement. Good judgement derives from strong analytical skills AND prior knowledge. If you lack the latter, then your analysis may be perfect, but you still may be wrong because it was based on incorrect basic assumptions that in turn comes from a persons ignorance. And its not like she can just learn the ABCs of all of the things that a President needs to know - as background for basic analysis - in a year or two.
 
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Thomas49

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Do you have proof that her denomination condemns the use of alcohol? Her religion, Christianity, certainly does not.

Which of course, is besides the point. She simply connects with mainstream average Americans in a way that neither of the men on the Dem ticket can.
There is no such thing as a mainstream average American. We are far too diverse for that.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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Is it possible that many people here are mis-understanding the whole "Joe Six-Pack" reference? I don't know exactly what was meant by it, by the person who initially said it.

But when I've heard that phrase, I got the picture of your regular guy who has a six-pack of beer in the refrigerator, as opposed to your blue-blood snoot who chooses which bottle of Chardonnay to bring up out of the wine cellar.

I guess I didn't think of it as being derogatory - suggesting the guy always sits down a chugs a six-pack.

Maybe I'm missing something.
Well I have a wine cellar with about 400 bottles and it just so happens to double as a beer cellar with around 2000 bottles so I wonder what that makes me?
 
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OphidiaPhile

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The etymology of the phrase is not the definition, it's the history. the definition is as I posted it, once again showing that Palin has a better grasp on vocabulary than many of our left leaning friends :wave:
She has a very poor vocabulary and having any understanding of the definition of "Joe six pack" does not in any way show a grasp of anything more than the ability to pander to the lowest common denominator.
 
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MachZer0

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Sarah Palin is a complete idiot, say it with me now, Nucular.
For those who are not as well informed on some matters of vocabulary, the "nucular" pronunciation is perfectly acceptable. Please visit Websters for the definition of nuclear and the acceptable pronunciations are listed along with audio versions :wave:
 
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MachZer0

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She has a very poor vocabulary and having any understanding of the definition of "Joe six pack" does not in any way show a grasp of anything more than the ability to pander to the lowest common denominator.
The fact that she understands the phrase while others don't certainly demonstrates that she has a better grasp on vocabulary than some
 
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jaymai

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For those who are not as well informed on some matters of vocabulary, the "nucular" pronunciation is perfectly acceptable. Please visit Websters for the definition of nuclear and the acceptable pronunciations are listed along with audio versions :wave:

I predict that in a Palin-McCain administration, lots of alternative pronunciations will become acceptable. Whatever Sarah says and does will become acceptable. It will become acceptable once again to show favoritism in hiring and promotions to the less competent cute girl who winks and wiggles and "struts her stuff" in front of the bosses. I'm kinda glad because we need to get rid of all these unattractive, dull women in high places.

Thats good. I can tell my 8 year old granddaughter to stop wasting her time studying and trying to answer exam questions she doesn't know the answer to. All she has to do is watch Sarah Palin to learn the nuances of winking and wiggling and acting cute and then she can just tell her third grade teacher with a wiggle and a wink and a grin, "By golly, teach...can I call ya' teach? I'm not gonna answer these questions, but doggonit I'm gonna talk to my classmates instead, cuz I'm a MAV-RICK!" Based on the way America has turned, that should be enough for an "A".

The good news is, this will save a lot of parents money on expensive college tuition - but only if your daughter is "cute."

I can't wait, cause my granddaughter is verrrry cute.
 
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reverend B

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Ooooooooo... An EXPERT in the field of PRESIDENTIAL debates!

The political icon by your username says everything. You hate Palin, and everything she is, says and does is wrong. End of the story.

Very typical.

this is your constantly repeated default position. when you don't want to engage someone you attempt to dismiss them as hopelessly partisan and biased to the point of blindness. aren't you better than this? you call people liars if they mention their backgrounds. why are you so angry? because at this moment in time you are losing this race? what is it? if you want to sway anyone, give them reasons to listen to you. your hatefulness on here has gotten extremely tiresome.
you may not believe it, but i am trying to give you some constructive input. you are simply alienating people in large handfuls.

"the fruits of the spirit are love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control."
 
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Braunwyn

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Ooooooooo... An EXPERT in the field of PRESIDENTIAL debates!

The political icon by your username says everything. You hate Palin, and everything she is, says and does is wrong. End of the story.

Very typical.
What a completely rude and childish post. There's a reason that HS and college include debate formats...ya know, to educate people about the process.

"the fruits of the spirit are love, peace, joy, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control."
Nice quote :)
 
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Allahuakbar

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For those who are not as well informed on some matters of vocabulary, the "nucular" pronunciation is perfectly acceptable. Please visit Websters for the definition of nuclear and the acceptable pronunciations are listed along with audio versions :wave:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nuclear

Where does M-W say this?

The fact that she understands the phrase while others don't certainly demonstrates that she has a better grasp on vocabulary than some

Just to be clear, what are you saying here, I have been busy and lost track of several pages.

Are you claiming Governor Palin does not claim to be an example of "Joe Six Pack American?"

Are you claiming no liberal has pointed this out to you?
 
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Fantine

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Here is the official position of the Assemblies of God on alcohol use:

For two reasons we urge all believers to avoid the Satanic tool of alcohol which destroys lives, damns souls, and blights society: (1) A studied review of the Scriptures affirms a stern warning against intoxicating drink and a call to separation from this evil for the purpose of better service to God and mankind; and (2) Current social abuses and the public outrage over the high cost of alcohol in terms of human misery, death, and destruction of property cry out with urgency for the church of Jesus Christ to oppose firmly any use whatsoever of a beverage which so insidiously afflicts and binds the bodies and minds of men and women.

http://www.ag.org/top/beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_4187_abstinence.cfm

You may be surprised to know if you don't live or travel through the Bible Belt that there are huge sections of the United States that are still living under prohibition.

Even the town where the largest corporation in the US (possibly the world) is headquartered--Wal-Mart--doesn't sell alcohol. If they want to wine and dine their corporate visitors they have to either drive to Missouri or give them a root beer.

It's because of the Baptist/Assembly of God influence in the area. (Not quite sure how they justify their attitudes against the Wedding at Cana story.)

But that's probably good for Palin. Imagine if she had had a glass or two of wine to settle her nerves before the debate. Then she would have lost by 61-26% instead of only 51-36%.

And yes, I do feel that my experience as a high school debate parent better prepare me to listen to a debate intelligently, looking for facts and straight answers, looking to see if attacks are answered with facts that rebut them completely (and Biden was very successful at rebutting Palin's attacks.)

These high school debaters are very bright and know how to do their research. If only the electorate knew as much about the issues as they do.
 
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MachZer0

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Here: ˈnyü-, ÷-kyə-lər



Just to be clear, what are you saying here, I have been busy and lost track of several pages.

Are you claiming Governor Palin does not claim to be an example of "Joe Six Pack American?"

Are you claiming no liberal has pointed this out to you?
I'm saying one that her claim was to represent Joe Six Pack and that the term doesn't refer to what many of my left leaning friends here alluded
 
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reverend B

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the more important point about palin's use of "nuclear" is she didn't answer the question that was posed to her. she was asked about the circumstances that would warrant u.s. use of nuclear weapons, and she talked about proliferation in other countries and the danger they pose to us. the question went to the heart of the mccain/palin tickets militaristic posing that they have made a campaign feature. they are selling the "cowboy diplomacy" tough guy routine that has been such an abject failure for our country over the last 8 years. she was asked to expound on her attitude toward u.s. use of "nukuler" weapons, and avoided the issue altogether. why was that? does she not want to reveal her attitude about it, or does she not know what her attitude is supposed to be? this is no small issue.
 
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Allahuakbar

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Here: ˈnyü-, ÷-kyə-lər

I am sorry, didn't you say...

For those who are not as well informed on some matters of vocabulary, the "nucular" pronunciation is perfectly acceptable. Please visit Websters for the definition of nuclear and the acceptable pronunciations are listed along with audio versions :wave:

If so, why do you think the above is pronounced "nucular"?

The upside down e, known as a schwa (and Hebrew in derivation), is never pronounced with a long u as in you or "nucular". It is a short vowel. I am still not sure where you are getting your basis for schwa pronouncement.

I'm saying one that her claim was to represent Joe Six Pack and that the term doesn't refer to what many of my left leaning friends here alluded

Did you bother to read the original quote I provided? It actually says she IS Joe Six-Pack.
 
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MachZer0

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I am sorry, didn't you say...



If so, why do you think the above is pronounced "nucular"?

The upside down e, known as a schwa (and Hebrew in derivation), is never pronounced with a long u as in you or "nucular". It is a short vowel. I am still not sure where you are getting your basis for schwa pronouncement.
Perhaps you'd like to demonstrate for us how ˈnyü-, ÷-kyə-lər would be pronounced then :wave:



Did you bother to read the original quote I provided? It actually says she IS Joe Six-Pack.
I addressed that much earlier. I'm sorry you missed it
 
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Allahuakbar

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Perhaps you'd like to demonstrate for us how ˈnyü-, ÷-kyə-lər would be pronounced then :wave:

The way it is pronounced. I did not know that the existence of the schwa was a secret. Your referenced pronunciation is nuk-ya-ler. I remember learning about the schwa in Elementary School, I thought the word was cool.

I addressed that much earlier. I'm sorry you missed it

I do not think you did. Since Governor Palin said she was Joe Six-Pack

"Palin said if she and John McCain win, they will "put government back on the side of the people of Joe Six-pack like me.""

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431161,00.html

It seems rather clear. Did you look up her comments to see context? If you have been arguing for the last 15 pages that Governor Palin represents Joe Six-Pack, but was not a member of Joe Six-Pack, you have done so incorrectly. I do not know how you missed her comments.
 
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