Joe lies to make himself look good

[Albion]

Every single lie Donald Trump said was obvious.

If they were 'obvious,' it would not have been necessary for his detractors to invent a number of them and insist that he claimed something he actually did not.

 

[The Barbarian]

If they were 'obvious,' it would not have been necessary for his detractors to invent a number of them and insist that he claimed something he actually did not.

Not all of them were obvious, but if even most of them were not obvious lies, it would not have been necessary for his defenders to invent "what he really meant to say" and insist that he claimed something he actually did not.

My favorite was Kellyanne's "alternative facts" excuse. What an ingenious relabeling of lies.

 

[Albion]

Not all of them were obvious....

Not all, no. But the most commonly cited by opponents were. And then there are those that are only technically incorrect, hardly worth being labelled as a lie. But if they have to go to such extremes in order to establish this as one of President Trump's failings, you can appreciate that the whole thing has been grossly exaggerated, to say the least.

My favorite was Kellyanne's "alternative facts" excuse. What an ingenious relabeling of lies.

That is a good example, I agree. So what is at play there?

Anyone should be able to see that the term "alternative facts" deals with facts. Right? Not lies. But no, it was represented, relentlessly, as having referred to the latter of those two, even though it wouldn't make any sense to think that the President's spokesperson would be insisting that it was all lies.

And in addition, there are indeed facts which need to be considered even as we recognize alternate facts. For example, dropping the bomb on Hiroshima was controversial. It's a fact that it hastened the end of the war, but at the same time it resulted in the deaths of more than a hundred thousand civilian lives. Those are alternatives and both are factually correct.

This was what I understood Mrs. Conway to be saying just as she was saying it. But the opportunity to misrepresent her meaning was there, so it was used by enemies of the President.

 

[Wolseley]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with job layoffs, but anyone who cares about the environment is likely to oppose the Keystone XL Pipeline construction. It would have ruined drinking water.

If that's true, then Biden should be arrested and put on trial for placing the residents of the Middle East into a dangerous health situation:

Biden kills pipelines at home but promotes them for the Taliban (washingtonexaminer.com)

 

[Servus]

A rather low bar, but that's what the republican party has given us.

It's a good cop-out.

 

[The Barbarian]

Not all, no. But the most commonly cited by opponents were. And then there are those that are only technically incorrect, hardly worth being labelled as a lie. But if they have to go to such extremes in order to establish this as one of President Trump's failings,

Even many of his supporters admit that he's a habitual liar. C'mon.

A majority of Americans think that President Trump either rarely or never tells the truth, according to an NBC News/SurveyMoney poll released Wednesday.

Overall, 61 percent of respondents to the online poll believe that Trump tells the truth "only some of the time or less."

The survey results came a day after The Washington Post's Fact Checker reported that Trump has made more than 3,000 false or misleading statements since taking office last year.
Poll: 60 percent of Americans say Trump is usually dishonest

Biden beat Trump by about 5 percent in the general election. So as you see, a lot of folks who voted for Trump still acknowledge that he lies most of the time.

 

[The Barbarian]

Anyone should be able to see that the term "alternative facts" deals with facts. Right?

No, She used it as a euphemism for lies.

This was what I understood Mrs. Conway to be saying just as she was saying it. But the opportunity to misrepresent her meaning was there, so it was used by enemies of the President.

Well, let's take a look...

"Alternative facts" was a phrase used by U.S. Counselor to the President Kellyanne Conway during a Meet the Press interview on January 22, 2017, in which she defended White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer's false statement about the attendance numbers of Donald Trump's inauguration as President of the United States. When pressed during the interview with Chuck Todd to explain why Spicer would "utter a provable falsehood", Conway stated that Spicer was giving "alternative facts". Todd responded, "Look, alternative facts are not facts. They're falsehoods."[1]

Conway's use of the phrase "alternative facts" for demonstrable falsehoods was widely mocked on social media and sharply criticized by journalists and media organizations, including Dan Rather, Jill Abramson, and the Public Relations Society of America. The phrase was extensively described as Orwellian, particularly in reference to the term doublethink.
Alternative facts - Wikipedia

 

[Albion]

This thread has absolutely nothing to do with job layoffs, but anyone who cares about the environment is likely to oppose the Keystone XL Pipeline construction. It would have ruined drinking water.

There's no basis for thinking it would have ruined drinking water, but do take note that the same people who oppose the Keystone Pipeline also oppose pipelines everywhere else, including such areas as provide no drinking water at all.

In those cases, we are often told that the downside is that the pipelines will cause environmental pollution, yet those people are wildly enthusiastic about wind farms that not only don't produce significant amounts of energy but do kill hundreds of thousands of birds and are notorious for the visual pollution of the environment.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If they were 'obvious,' it would not have been necessary for his detractors to invent a number of them and insist that he claimed something he actually did not.

Give me some examples and the sources they come from. Many people like to pretend Donald Trump has never lied about anything in his life to justify their complete ignorance.

 

[The Barbarian]

If that's true, then Biden should be arrested and put on trial for placing the residents of the Middle East into a dangerous health situation:

Biden kills pipelines at home but promotes them for the Taliban (washingtonexaminer.com)

The fact is, it will be safer and more efficient moving petroleum by rail than by pipeline, especially through highly populated areas.

The current risks associated with pipelines are similar to the risks associated with other modes of transporting oil across the United States. Oil spills are among the highest risks, but with the XL pipeline, it’s a more profound risk due to the type of oil being carried: tar sand oil. Tar sand oil, also known as heavy oil, is known for its tedious processing and its many environmental implications. Burning one single barrel of oil produced from Canadian tar sands generally emits 170 pounds of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. It also requires large amounts of energy and water, much of which cannot be recycled, to separate the oil from the tar sands and transform the oil into a form of petroleum that can be processed by refineries.


According to the final SEIS:


The proposed project would emit approximately 24 million metric tons of carbon dioxide per year during the construction period (up to three times as much than producing conventional crude), which would be directly emitted through fuel use in construction vehicles and equipment as well as land clearing activities including open burning, and indirectly from electricity usage.


Additional risks associated with the XL pipeline include potential groundwater contamination of major aquifers – particularly the Ogallala Aquifer – as well as deforestation, habitat destruction, and fragmentation.


In the event of an oil spill from the Keystone XL or other pipelines crossing the U.S., the responsibility for who cleans it up does not fall on TransCanada. According to a report from the Natural Resource Defense Council (NRDC), tar sand oils are exempt from paying into the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund. Amendments that would require TransCanada to pay the 8-cent-per-barrel fee to the fund have not been passed.
Pipelines vs Oil Trains

The last is probably why the corporations pushing for a pipeline want to have it so much; a loophole in the law absolves them from much of the liability for damage they do from negligence.

 

[GodLovesCats]

If that's true, then Biden should be arrested and put on trial for placing the residents of the Middle East into a dangerous health situation:

You really had to go out of your way to make that stretch. Joe Biden was elected by the American people. His job is to serve the American people and protect their environment. He did that.

 

[The Barbarian]

There's no basis for thinking it would have ruined drinking water,

But I do notice that the people supporting the pipeline went ballistic when Indian tribes opposing the pipeline being built on their lands, suggested that the line be routed near the communities of people supporting it. So there is that.

 

[The Barbarian]

You really had to go out of your way to make that stretch. Joe Biden was elected by the American people. His job is to serve the American people and protect their environment. He did that.

And the situation is different there. No effective rail system, and no large populations exposed by the line.

 

[Albion]

Give me some examples and the sources they come from. Many people like to pretend Donald Trump has never lied about anything in his life to justify their complete ignorance.

For example, claiming that he said there are good people on both sides in Charlottesville and meaning either Antifa or the Klan-types who were present along with peaceful demonstrators and onlookers.

For another, claiming that he said all Mexicans are rapists.

Both of these charges have been levelled against President Trump many, many times, even after it's been shown that they are baseless.

 

[Albion]

You really had to go out of your way to make that stretch. Joe Biden was elected by the American people. His job is to serve the American people and protect their environment. He did that.

And he protected the investment in rail traffic by one of the most prominent of Democratic Party billionaires. There rarely are oil spills by pipelines, but the spills and accidents of tanker cars shipping oil are significant.

 

[GodLovesCats]

There's no basis for thinking it would have ruined drinking water, but do take note that the same people who oppose the Keystone Pipeline also oppose pipelines everywhere else, including such areas as provide no drinking water at all.

In those cases, we are often told that the downside is that the pipelines will cause environmental pollution, yet those people are wildly enthusiastic about wind farms that not only don't produce significant amounts of energy but do kill hundreds of thousands of birds and are notorious for the visual pollution of the environment.

Did you read all about the science behind fears it will ruin our drinking water? People don't make up what was discovered in geological research. If ecologists and geologists say the Keystone XL Pipeline caused all the freshwater in contact with it to become toxic, do not assume everyone has safe drinking water.

 

[GodLovesCats]

And he protected the investment in rail traffic by one of the most prominent of Democratic Party billionaires. There rarely are oil spills by pipelines, but the spills and accidents of tanker cars shipping oil are significant.

More deflections from you. I focus on the present. Are the current problems being solved or improving? If all you can do is point out some mistakes Joe Biden made in the past that are not related to what he does now, you really do not have anything to say about how he is managing current events.

 

[Albion]

More deflections from you. I focus on the present.

So did I.

 

[The Barbarian]

There's no basis for thinking it would have ruined drinking water, but do take note that the same people who oppose the Keystone Pipeline also oppose pipelines everywhere else, including such areas as provide no drinking water at all.

That's the problem. It crosses the Ogallala Aquifer, which provides underground water for eight states from
Canada to the Gulf of Mexico.

That's why the guys pushing for it, were angered that Indian tribes in it's proposed path asked to have it routed near the pipeline proponents' communities. They understand the dangers and don't want it near them.

A federal court recently found that Donald Trump illegally ignored U.S. treaties with the tribes involved, in order to get the pipeline approved. Even if the Canadian corporation appeals, the issue will be in courts for years before they can continue.

 

[The Barbarian]

For another, claiming that he said all Mexicans are rapists.

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems to us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists." — Presidential Campaign Announcement Speech

Donald Trump should be very careful to avoid bringing up the issue of rape. He's got a court appearance coming, now that he's no longer president.

My guess is that he'll settle with the woman he assaulted before he has to give a DNA sample and get exposed in court.