Joe Crews

[NightEternal]

WOW! all these groups within adventism.

I am supprised that you placed Clifford Goldstein in the group that opposes Justification by Faith. He seems to place a heavy emphasis on that teaching.

DD

I will be honest digdeep, I struggled with that one. Cliff is a hard one to pin-point. He does indeed emphasize justification by faith and has challenged the traditional view of the IJ in the past. But he is still very conservative in his doctrine and is a staunch SDA. However, notice that I said 'oppose justification by faith as taught by Luther'. They way Luther explained it is not the same as the way Traditional Adventism has interpreted it.

After much consideration, I have decided to move Cliff back to Moderate from Traditional/Conservative. I say 'back' because I had him in the Moderate group intitially when I fist composed the list. That recieved some protest and guffaws from Progs who thought he was way more Conservative than Moderate, based on how Cliff likes to blast certain Progressive groups within Adventism, especially cultural Adventists and those who hold to theistic evolution. I know RC certainly has no use for him! They give Cliff the gears on Adventist Tomorrow all the time and Cliff takes the abuse quite well. He is a good sport for sure.

*shrug* See what I mean? A tough one. You can't please everyone I guess.

BTW, I happen to like Cliff and his warped sense of humor. He is a super nice guy and one of the few Trads I can actually tolerate. I have quite a few of his books, especially those dealing with religious freedom, Rome and the U.S in prophecy and the end times.

 

[JonMiller]

And Night doesn't even include Sentipente's group!

JM

 

[NightEternal]

I don't know if Senti even fits anywhere on the list!

 

[JonMiller]

That is what I Am saying, he doesn't.

JM

 

[digdeep]

I will be honest digdeep, I struggled with that one. Cliff is a hard one to pin-point. He does indeed emphasize justification by faith and has challenged the traditional view of the IJ in the past. But he is still very conservative in his doctrine and is a staunch SDA. However, notice that I said 'oppose justification by faith as taught by Luther'. They way Luther explained it is not the same as the way Traditional Adventism has interpreted it.

After much consideration, I have decided to move Cliff back to Moderate from Traditional/Conservative. I say 'back' because I had him in the Moderate group intitially when I fist composed the list. That recieved some protest and guffaws from Progs who thought he was way more Conservative than Moderate, based on how Cliff likes to blast certain Progressive groups within Adventism, especially cultural Adventists and those who hold to theistic evolution. I know RC certainly has no use for him! They give Cliff the gears on Adventist Tomorrow all the time and Cliff takes the abuse quite well. He is a good sport for sure.

*shrug* See what I mean? A tough one. You can't please everyone I guess.

BTW, I happen to like Cliff and his warped sense of humor. He is a super nice guy and one of the few Trads I can actually tolerate. I have quite a few of his books, especially those dealing with religious freedom, Rome and the U.S in prophecy and the end times.

Me too, I also enjoy the books written by George Knight.

DD

 

[JonMiller]

I don't have many adventist books other than the standard ones by EGW. I should maybe look into Cliff or George.


JM