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Job, did God have something to prove?
- Thread starter Miracle Storm
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I think one thing that the book of Job does is remind us that we were created to serve God, God was not created to serve us. Some people seem to think that God exists to answer our prayers and grant us miracles, He does those things but not because that is His reason for being. God created us for Him and He can and does use us in many ways to serve His purposes. God allowed Job to suffer to silence the Devil.
Of course God knew all that was going to happen in this incident before it occurred. God crafted the whole affair in the first place. God was not manipulated into a bet by Satan. God was the one who asked Satan if he had considered Job, his most faithful servant. Then Satan came back and told God that Job only served Him because Job was wealthy so God allowed Satan to take away Jobs wealth. Then when Job continued to serve God faithfully, God asked Satan again if he has considered Job and his faithfulness. So Satan comes back and tells God that Job still serves Him because he still has his health, so God allows Satan to take away Jobs health. When Job still serves God faithfully, Satan had nothing left to say. God showed the Devil that faithful men will serve God for nothing. We should all do the same, we should not serve God because He blesses us or because He shows us mercy, we should serve God for no other reason than He is God.
Job 1: 21 And said, Naked came I out of my mothers womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
Let us worship God not because of what He does for us but because of whom He is.
Of course God knew all that was going to happen in this incident before it occurred. God crafted the whole affair in the first place. God was not manipulated into a bet by Satan. God was the one who asked Satan if he had considered Job, his most faithful servant. Then Satan came back and told God that Job only served Him because Job was wealthy so God allowed Satan to take away Jobs wealth. Then when Job continued to serve God faithfully, God asked Satan again if he has considered Job and his faithfulness. So Satan comes back and tells God that Job still serves Him because he still has his health, so God allows Satan to take away Jobs health. When Job still serves God faithfully, Satan had nothing left to say. God showed the Devil that faithful men will serve God for nothing. We should all do the same, we should not serve God because He blesses us or because He shows us mercy, we should serve God for no other reason than He is God.
Job 1: 21 And said, Naked came I out of my mothers womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.
Let us worship God not because of what He does for us but because of whom He is.
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Bible2
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He is indeed, and sometimes he succeeds:
1 Peter 5:8 ...Be sober, be vigilant; because your
adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh
about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the
same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren
that are in the world.
10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto
his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have
suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish,
strengthen, settle you.
11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.
Amen.
We need to put on our protective spiritual armor
every day through the Lord Jesus, and pray for the
protection of all believers:
Ephesians 6:10 ...Finally, my brethren, be strong in
the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able
to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but
against principalities, against powers, against the
rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual
wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,
that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and
having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with
truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the
gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye
shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the
wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in
the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all
perseverance and supplication for all saints ...
2 Corinthians 2:11 ...Lest Satan should get an
advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his
devices.
Even when God allows Satan to cause us trouble, God
will bring good out of it in the end:
Romans 8:28 ... all things work together for good to
them that love God, to them who are the called
according to his purpose.
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Bible2
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Satan does still come before God and accuse us
believers day and night. Satan will continue to do
so until he is cast out of heaven for good during the
coming tribulation, after he wages a war in heaven.
After he's cast down to the earth for good, he'll then
wage war against us believers who will still be alive
on the earth:
Revelation 12:7 ...there was war in heaven: Michael
and his angels fought against the dragon; and the
dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found
any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old
serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth
the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and
his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is
come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our
God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of
our brethren is cast down, which accused them before
our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb,
and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not
their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell
in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of
the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having
great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a
short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the
earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the
man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great
eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into
her place, where she is nourished for a time, and
times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a
flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be
carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth
opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which
the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went
to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep
the commandments of God, and have the testimony of
Jesus Christ.
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Bible2
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The situation of Job has happened to believers, and
even worse: God has always allowed believers to even
be killed by Satan:
Revelation 2:10 ...Fear none of those things which
thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some
of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall
have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto
death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not
be hurt of the second death.
Even the apostle Peter didn't always have a
protective "hedge" all around him. God allowed Satan
to test him. And Peter, unlike Job, failed the test:
Luke 22:31 ...And the Lord said, Simon, Simon,
behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may
sift you as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail
not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy
brethren.
33 And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with
thee, both into prison, and to death.
34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] shall
not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny
that thou knowest me.
But Peter recovered his faithfulness and died a
martyr's death for Jesus; there was no protecting
"hedge" all around Peter when they led him off to
be crucified upside down.
Just like God let Peter and the first-century church
in Smyrna (Revelation 2:10) be persecuted and killed,
without any protecting "hedge" all around them, so
God will let many of us believers be persecuted and
killed during the coming tribulation:
Matthew 24:9 ...Then shall they deliver you up to be
afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated
of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray
one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall
deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of
many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same
shall be saved.
The Antichrist will be allowed by God to capture and
behead many of us Christians during the coming
tribulation:
Revelation 13:7 ...And it was given unto him to make
war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power
was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and
nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship
him, whose names are not written in the book of life
of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into
captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be
killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the
faith of the saints.
Revelation 14:12 ...Here is the patience of the
saints: here are they that keep the commandments of
God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,
Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord
from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they
may rest from their labours; and their works do
follow them.
Revelation 20:4 ...I saw the souls of them that were
beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word
of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark
upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they
lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the
thousand years were finished. This is the first
resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first
resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,
but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
shall reign with him a thousand years.
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Bible2
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If Job hadn't stayed faithful, but repented for not
staying faithful before his death, he could have been
given another chance, just as Peter was given another
chance when he didn't stay faithful but then repented:
Luke 22:61 ...Peter remembered the word of the Lord,
how he had said unto him, Before the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crow, thou
shalt deny me thrice.
62 And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
But was Peter given another chance because he denied
Jesus before Jesus' Crucifixion?
Can anyone be given another chance if they deny Jesus
after His Crucifixion, so as to avoid being persecuted
and killed for Jesus' name?
2 Timothy 2:12 ...If we suffer, we shall also reign
with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us ...
Matthew 10:33 ... whosoever shall deny me before men,
him will I also deny before my Father which is in
heaven.
Mark 8:34 ...Whosoever will come after me, let him
deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it;
but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and
the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain
the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his
soul?
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of
my words in this adulterous and sinful generation;
of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he
cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy
angels.
Hebrews 6:4 ...For it is impossible for those who
were once enlightened, and have tasted of the
heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy
Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the
powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto
repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the
Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that
cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet
for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing
from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is
rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to
be burned.
John 15:6 ...If a man abide not in me, he is cast
forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather
them, and cast them into the fire, and they are
burned.
Romans 11:20 ...thou standest by faith. Be not
highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take
heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of
God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee,
goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise
thou also shalt be cut off.
Revelation 3:5...He that overcometh, the same shall
be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out
his name out of the book of life, but I will confess
his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
saith unto the churches.
---
So we Christians really need to begin preparing
ourselves to suffer and die for the name of Jesus,
without denying Him.
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Bible2
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Amen:
Revelation 4:11 ...Thou art worthy, O Lord, to
receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast
created all things, and for thy pleasure they are
and were created.
Job 13:15 ...Though he slay me, yet will I trust
in him ...
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so yeeaa... ive noticed all your posts are pretty much proof you can just piece together anything you want in the bible and make them say what you want, thats kinda creative.
well maybe these people like job and peter were meant to be some kind of example they didnt have the entire bible in front of there faces like we do... Jesus said my people die for lack of knowledge.
*im not talking about a 'hedge' around believers now, im talking about the blood of christ now thats currently on believers. Would you say speaking pslam 91 over yourself is in vain??? ...probably
i dont understand your use of the matthew scriptures.. and using Revelation has nothing to do with what the poster is talking about.
the people who become christians and are beheaded in revelation are the ones that are left behind after the rapture.(you probably dont believe in the rapture) the holy spirit will not be here anymore during the tribulation period as it has gone back up along with Gods people.
i dont understand your exmaple from revelation as it applies to this post thats all.
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Bible2
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If we disagree with how someone has pieced together
different scriptures, then we should show them from
the Bible why we believe those scriptures can't go
together.
If we think that someone is trying to make a
scripture say something that it doesn't say, then we
should show them from the Bible why we believe the
scripture can't be saying that.
If we can't show someone from the Bible where they
are in error in their use of the scriptures, then
it's possible that we are the ones in error, holding
onto ideas which the Bible itself doesn't teach.
The apostle Peter had no lack of knowledge of the
Bible, for he was an eyewitness of the accounts in the
Gospels, and he had also read all of Paul's epistles:
2 Peter 1:16 ... we have not followed cunningly
devised fables, when we made known unto you the power
and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were
eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2 Peter 3:15 ...And account that the longsuffering
of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother
Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath
written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of
these things; in which are some things hard to be
understood, which they that are unlearned and
unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures,
unto their own destruction.
This shows that even when people have the Bible, they
can still not understand it, to their own destruction,
as in their not being saved.
But the apostles Peter and Paul were saved, they
understood the Bible, and still they suffered and
died martyrs' deaths, just as the first-century
church of Smyrna to whom the book of Revelation was
sent suffered and died martyrs' deaths, even at the
hands of the devil himself:
Revelation 2:10 ...Fear none of those things which
thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some
of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye
shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful
unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not
be hurt of the second death.
So whether or not a believer has the entire Bible has
nothing at all to do with whether or not a believer
will suffer and die a martyr's death.
The apostles Peter and Paul, and the first-century
church of Smyrna could have quoted Psalms 91 like
some magic formula day and night without ceasing, and
it wouldn't have kept them from suffering and dying
martyrs' deaths, for anything we quote from the Bible,
just as anything we pray, will only come to pass for
us if it is God's will for us individually:
1 John 5:14 ...And this is the confidence that we
have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to
his will, he heareth us ...
So if it isn't God's will that Psalms 91 apply to us
individually then no matter how much we chant it over
and over again it isn't going to keep us from
suffering and death.
We can't try to use the Bible like some magic spell
that can bend God's will to our own will; instead we
should qualify everything we want to claim for
ourselves out of the Bible, and in prayer, by saying
what even Jesus Himself said:
Luke 22:42 ...Saying, Father, if thou be willing,
remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will,
but thine, be done.
So we can quote Psalms 91 and pray, "Father, if you
are willing, may this apply to me and may you keep
me from every kind of suffering and death.
Nevertheless, not my will, but yours be done".
In other words, we Christians have to be willing to
suffer and die for God the Father and Jesus:
2 Timothy 3:12 ...Yea, and all that will live godly
in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
Philippians 1:29 ...For unto you it is given in the
behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but
also to suffer for his sake ...
Acts 14:22 ... we must through much tribulation enter
into the kingdom of God.
But there are some believers who, while they love the
Bible and rejoice in their salvation, they have never
reached that point of being willing to suffer
persecution and tribulation for what they believe,
so that if tribulation comes upon them in the future
they will be "offended" that God is allowing them
to suffer, and they will reject God:
Matthew 13:20 ... he that received the seed into
stony places, the same is he that heareth the word,
and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a
while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth
because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Isaiah 8:21 ...And they shall pass through it, hardly
bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that
when they shall be hungry, they shall fret
themselves, and curse their king and their God, and
look upward.
22 And they shall look unto the earth; and behold
trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they
shall be driven to darkness.
Matthew 24:9 ...Then shall they deliver you up to be
afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated
of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray
one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall
deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of
many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same
shall be saved.
Hebrews 3:14 ...For we are made partakers of Christ,
if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast
unto the end ...
We Christians can hold onto our confidence in Christ
even when we are suffering and dying for His name,
for our suffering works for us an eternal weight
of glory, and our death merely brings our spirits
into heaven to be with Jesus:
2 Corinthians 4:16 ...For which cause we faint not;
but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man
is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a
moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and
eternal weight of glory;
18 While we look not at the things which are seen,
but at the things which are not seen: for the things
which are seen are temporal; but the things which are
not seen are eternal.
Philippians 1:21 ...to live is Christ, and to die
is gain ...
23 ... having a desire to depart, and to be with
Christ; which is far better ...
We will be blessed even in our dying in the coming
tribulation:
Revelation 14:12 ...Here is the patience of the
saints: here are they that keep the commandments of
God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,
Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord
from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit ...
Regarding Matthew 24, that applies to the Church,
those who will be killed for the name of Jesus
(Matthew 24:9), just as Revelation applies to the
Church, those who will have the faith of Jesus and
die in the Lord (Revelation 14:12-13).
The Bible doesn't teach that the rapture will be
before the tribulation, but after the tribulation
(Matthew 24:29-31); Jesus' coming to gather together
the Church must destroy the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).
The Spirit will still be on the earth during the
tribulation because those in the Lord will still be
on the earth during the tribulation (Revelation
14:12-13), and no one can be in the Lord without the
Spirit (Romans 8:9).
The entire book of Revelation, from beginning to end,
just as Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, was given
to the Church, so that it might know beforehand
everything that it will have to face during the
coming tribulation:
Revelation 1:1 ...The Revelation of Jesus Christ,
which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants
things which must shortly come to pass ...
Revelation 22:16 ...I Jesus have sent mine angel to
testify unto you these things in the churches ...
Mark 13:23 ... take ye heed: behold, I have foretold
you all things ...
When we find ourselves in the tribulation, if we try
to cry out to God, "How could you not rapture us?
You promised us! You lied to us! We reject you as a
cruel God who only wants us to suffer and die!", God
could simply reply: "I never promised you a rapture
before the tribulation. I told you that you would
have to go through the tribulation. You accepted me
on false pretenses. And now you reject me on false
pretenses".
We don't have to freak out during the tribulation.
We can face it calmly, knowing that Christians have
always suffered, without losing their hope:
1 Peter 1:13 ...Wherefore gird up the loins of your
mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace
that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of
Jesus Christ ...
1 Peter 4:12 ...Beloved, think it not strange
concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as
though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of
Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be
revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy
are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth
upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on
your part he is glorified.
15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a
thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other
men's matters.
16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not
be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at
the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what
shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of
God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where
shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the
will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him
in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Job 13:15 ...Though he slay me, yet will I trust in
him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
16 He also shall be my salvation: for an hypocrite
shall not come before him ...
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JimfromOhio
Life of Trials :)
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I have been studying "Job" for a long time and learned about my own sufferings and learned patience through them.
Job reads like history. It talks about a man named Job. He lived in the land of Uz. It relates details about his family, his life, and his suffering. It communicates to us his friends' interest in his suffering, and the spiritual struggling with which Job dealt. What's interesting is that other biblical writers refer to Job as a real person. Ezekiel refers to Job along with Noah and Daniel (Ezekiel 14:14,20). And James draws upon the example of Job to comfort the suffering, proving the point that God is merciful. He commends the endurance of Job (Jas. 5:11). From the Book of Job, we see that God is in complete control. Satan had neither the power nor the authority to do anything without the permission of God. It was consistent with God's nature and will for him to have allowed those things to happen to Job. The Lord's point to Job, at the end of the book, is that he is the all-powerful Creator. He is the loving Sustainer. And he is the perfect Ruler. He created the Universe, and he knows how to govern it as well.
Through the book of Job, I have learned about Job's example of Faith. God made a point to the devil and to the whole world of people who have ever read that account. And the point is this, that true saving faith is not dependent on positive circumstances. God is making a point with Satan and to make the point He uses Job and the point is to show the strength and the continuity and the unwavering character of true saving faith, true love for God. The person who really loves God is not the person who loves God because of what he gets, but the person who loves God because of who He is.
There is a verse in the Bible that God promises that there wont be anything so bad happen to me that I am not able to bear it. God does everything--He governs everything. Faith is accepting God's Will. There is confusion between the determined Will of God and a Christian's responsibility as a Christian.
From the Book of Job, we see that God is in complete control. Satan had neither the power nor the authority to do anything without the permission of God. It was consistent with God's nature and will for him to have allowed those things to happen to Job. The point of the story of Job is about God's Sovereign. Not really about Job. People always focus on Job more than God's sovereign. Jesus said clearly about a penny's worth of sparrows compare to us. Matthew 10:29: Are not two sparrows sold for a penny ? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. If God can control with those two sparrows, then He will do the same for His children as well. In reality, the blessings are from God, the Holy Spirit-and using that person as an instrument to do God's will and plan.
God's divine intervention (i.e. trials) goes BOTH WAYS. All circumstances can turn people to God. Scriptures reveals that no trial, no disease or illness, no accident or injury reaches us apart from God's permission. Christians can answer like Joseph to his brothers who sold him into slavery, As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good. There are some who seem to look on the gloomy side and never able to do respond in faith to life's problems, instead, they grumble about the trials that they forget God's powerful grace.
Job reads like history. It talks about a man named Job. He lived in the land of Uz. It relates details about his family, his life, and his suffering. It communicates to us his friends' interest in his suffering, and the spiritual struggling with which Job dealt. What's interesting is that other biblical writers refer to Job as a real person. Ezekiel refers to Job along with Noah and Daniel (Ezekiel 14:14,20). And James draws upon the example of Job to comfort the suffering, proving the point that God is merciful. He commends the endurance of Job (Jas. 5:11). From the Book of Job, we see that God is in complete control. Satan had neither the power nor the authority to do anything without the permission of God. It was consistent with God's nature and will for him to have allowed those things to happen to Job. The Lord's point to Job, at the end of the book, is that he is the all-powerful Creator. He is the loving Sustainer. And he is the perfect Ruler. He created the Universe, and he knows how to govern it as well.
Through the book of Job, I have learned about Job's example of Faith. God made a point to the devil and to the whole world of people who have ever read that account. And the point is this, that true saving faith is not dependent on positive circumstances. God is making a point with Satan and to make the point He uses Job and the point is to show the strength and the continuity and the unwavering character of true saving faith, true love for God. The person who really loves God is not the person who loves God because of what he gets, but the person who loves God because of who He is.
There is a verse in the Bible that God promises that there wont be anything so bad happen to me that I am not able to bear it. God does everything--He governs everything. Faith is accepting God's Will. There is confusion between the determined Will of God and a Christian's responsibility as a Christian.
From the Book of Job, we see that God is in complete control. Satan had neither the power nor the authority to do anything without the permission of God. It was consistent with God's nature and will for him to have allowed those things to happen to Job. The point of the story of Job is about God's Sovereign. Not really about Job. People always focus on Job more than God's sovereign. Jesus said clearly about a penny's worth of sparrows compare to us. Matthew 10:29: Are not two sparrows sold for a penny ? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. If God can control with those two sparrows, then He will do the same for His children as well. In reality, the blessings are from God, the Holy Spirit-and using that person as an instrument to do God's will and plan.
God's divine intervention (i.e. trials) goes BOTH WAYS. All circumstances can turn people to God. Scriptures reveals that no trial, no disease or illness, no accident or injury reaches us apart from God's permission. Christians can answer like Joseph to his brothers who sold him into slavery, As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good. There are some who seem to look on the gloomy side and never able to do respond in faith to life's problems, instead, they grumble about the trials that they forget God's powerful grace.
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So you believe we were created to serve God's purposes?
We were created for Him...well yes I believe that, but the way you state it you make us sound like a pet dog..
For God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son...
So it seems God did have something to prove to the devil...ironmanmatt said:
Why the need?
ironmanmatt said:
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You say "God made a point to the devil"
My question is why the need?
I guess it is really not relevant if you believe that is what still goes on today..and that everything bad that happens in the world is allowed to happen by God...(satan asks and God gives him the ok?)
I certainly used to believe that without question, but now it has become quite frustrating. How do you stand on all God's promises when you know God is discussing with the "enemy" all the trials/tribulations that the enemy can put us through?
I know in all things God works for the good of those who love Him..
But it becomes hard to go to Him if you believe that He said go ahead satan you may cause this catastrophic event in their life and I will prove they are still faithful...
If God knew we would still remain faithful why the need and why prove anything to satan?
I guess I could understand God giving satan dominion over the earth for a time and God limiting what satan can do...BUT the thought of satan coming before the Lord and it being portrayed as a bet such as in the book of Job is upsetting to say the least to me...
I like to think of God as my protector who had granted satan dominion and doesn't go back on his word you see? To set back and believe God allows all these things to happen in the world to prove a point is really dismaying..
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JimfromOhio
Life of Trials :)
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Remember the story of Joseph in the Old Testament (Genesis 50:20), Joseph told his brothers who sold him into slavery, As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good. God will take advantage of Satan's evil desires and motives to accomplish His will. The Bible clearly teaches that God knows beforehand what we will need and He will provide beforehand according to His will. God is absolutely powerful, that God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, that God is immutable, never changes, that God is all wise, perfectly just, holy, righteous. God is ruling all things to work together for our good and His purpose.
The fact of the matter is the visible providence of God has no respect of persons. It doesn't discriminate between believers and unbelievers. Plane crashes, boat sinkings, train accidents, car collisions, heart disease, cancer doesn't discriminate between a sinner and a saint, or between a sinner and a sinner.
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JimfromOhio
Life of Trials :)
- Feb 7, 2004
- 27,738
- 3,738
- Faith
- Lutheran
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Libertarian
Remember the story of Joseph in the Old Testament (Genesis 50:20), Joseph told his brothers who sold him into slavery, As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good. God will take advantage of Satan's evil desires and motives to accomplish His will. The Bible clearly teaches that God knows beforehand what we will need and He will provide beforehand according to His will. God is absolutely powerful, that God is omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, that God is immutable, never changes, that God is all wise, perfectly just, holy, righteous. God is ruling all things to work together for our good and His purpose.
The fact of the matter is the visible providence of God has no respect of persons. It doesn't discriminate between believers and unbelievers. Plane crashes, boat sinkings, train accidents, car collisions, heart disease, cancer doesn't discriminate between a sinner and a saint, or between a sinner and a sinner.
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