• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Job, did God have something to prove?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Miracle Storm

...
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2005
22,697
1,213
✟97,196.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What is up with poor Job man?

Did God have something to prove? Why would he allow satan such rights to take everything from job except for his life? Did He want to prove satan wrong.

Yes people try to use the book as an encouragement...but I find it very discouraging.
Yes, he was given everything back and more..
but his kids had perished; they could not be replaced. Why did God allow this to happen to the man that was most faithful...?
Moreover why allow satan any rights to him at all?
 
M

MamaZ

Guest
This was to show Gods people that calamity happens but God is faithful. Just as Jesus said. Our life is hid in Christ. It is not what we have here and here is not our home. For His Kingdom is not of this world. He has a higher purpose.. I do find it encouraging to read Job. For no matter what happens to us here on earth. We have the final Hope and everlasting life. Christ our King.
 
Upvote 0

calluna

Regular Member
Apr 23, 2008
2,237
114
✟25,394.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Private
What is up with poor Job man?

Did God have something to prove? Why would he allow satan such rights to take everything from job except for his life? Did He want to prove satan wrong.

Yes people try to use the book as an encouragement...but I find it very discouraging.
Yes, he was given everything back and more..
but his kids had perished; they could not be replaced. Why did God allow this to happen to the man that was most faithful...?
Moreover why allow satan any rights to him at all?
The meaning of the book of Job is seldom understood. It is, imv, probably a parable, though in an historic setting, so there is no necessary concern about God's 'unfair' treatment.

Like everything in the Bible, this story is, by contrast, about Jesus. Job wasn't Jesus, because he wanted to justify himself as a righteous man. He suffered, but he wanted everyone to know that he was blameless- and indeed God says that he was. But Jesus suffered, and was accounted cursed, and made no attempt to justify himself. He was willing to be seen as wicked when he was not.

'He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.' Isa 53:3 NIV

There's a lesson for the saints in that, too. There are no long, tedious chapters of Jesus protesting his innocence, as there are with Job.

'He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.' Isa 53:7 NIV
 
Upvote 0

Miracle Storm

...
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2005
22,697
1,213
✟97,196.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This was to show Gods people that calamity happens but God is faithful. Just as Jesus said. Our life is hid in Christ. It is not what we have here and here is not our home. For His Kingdom is not of this world. He has a higher purpose.. I do find it encouraging to read Job. For no matter what happens to us here on earth. We have the final Hope and everlasting life. Christ our King.
See I just can't buy that..
It was like the enemy doubledared God and He excepted the challenge at poor Job's expense allowing satan to take everything, but his life.
It wasn't like, oh well "calamity happens"

6 One day the angels [a] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [b] also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?"
Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it."

8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil."
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

First, why does satan need to consider anything?
Then see the blue..it is like satan is taunting a manipulation of sorts..
But God knows what the outcome will be regardless.
That is why I ask..did he have something to prove to satan?
Here is a question. Why was the enemy so intent on Job?
imho because he was blameless, upright, shunned evil, and loved God...and to take it a step further - because they were/are qualities satan didn't/doesn't have.

I have always been told that the enemy wants to bring people down because we are God's creation and God loves us so it hurting us, hurts the father..
Not sure what my thoughts are on that..
 
Upvote 0

Miracle Storm

...
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2005
22,697
1,213
✟97,196.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The meaning of the book of Job is seldom understood. It is, imv, probably a parable, though in an historic setting, so there is no necessary concern about God's 'unfair' treatment.

Like everything in the Bible, this story is, by contrast, about Jesus. Job wasn't Jesus, because he wanted to justify himself as a righteous man. He suffered, but he wanted everyone to know that he was blameless- and indeed God says that he was. But Jesus suffered, and was accounted cursed, and made no attempt to justify himself. He was willing to be seen as wicked when he was not.

'He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.' Isa 53:3 NIV

There's a lesson for the saints in that, too. There are no long, tedious chapters of Jesus protesting his innocence, as there are with Job.

'He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.' Isa 53:7 NIV
Hm. Well my pov has been changing lately in regard to the Bible. literal and what is figurative - etc...
But still if the book of Job was a parable, which it certainly doesn't read like one at all, but if it was why would you say God gives satan such rights to us?
If all the pain, if all the loss, if all the heartache in the world is due to satan...(besides what we inflict on ourselves through sin) Why do you believe God would allow this?
 
Upvote 0
M

MamaZ

Guest
Was this really about Job? Was what Job lost life itself? Word of Jesus
Mar 8:34 And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
Mar 8:35 "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.
Mar 8:36 "For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?
Mar 8:37 "For what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mar 8:38 "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."
 
Upvote 0

Miracle Storm

...
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2005
22,697
1,213
✟97,196.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Was this really about Job? Was what Job lost life itself? Word of Jesus
Mar 8:34 And He summoned the crowd with His disciples, and said to them, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
Mar 8:35"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel's will save it.
Mar 8:36"For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his soul?
Mar 8:37"For what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
Mar 8:38"For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels."
I'm not sure what this has to do with it..
My question.."Did God have something to prove?" Does He still now?

This argument was the enemy trying to tell God that Job loved God for the things He possessed.
I know what the arguement was..and it appears to be manipulation.
God, however, cannot be manipulated. He knows the outcome. Why then did God allow satan to try to show it was only because of having good fortune job loved God?
Did He have something to prove to the enemy?
 
Upvote 0
M

MamaZ

Guest
Why did God allow Adam to sin? Poor Adam wouldn't you say? Does God have to prove anything? Really? So do you really believe that God manipulated here to harm Job? If you will notice that Satan right now is the god of this earth. Until Christ comes back will Jesus take over His truthful reign.. So I guess I am not seeing what the real question is that you are asking. Did God have to prove Himself? No Did God have something to Prove? No
 
Upvote 0

Miracle Storm

...
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2005
22,697
1,213
✟97,196.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Why did God allow Adam to sin? Poor Adam wouldn't you say?
This is not the same thing at all. You are comparing the sin adam committed of eating a forbidden fruit to Job's agony of loosing everything all to show he would remain faithful to God.
God already knew he would remain faithful as well I believe knew adam would rebel against him and sin.
Why then did he allow job to go through such torture, such agony?
MamaZ said:
Does God have to prove anything? Really? So do you really believe that God manipulated here to harm Job?
Absolutely NOT!
I said it appears satan was attempting to manipulate God...BUT God CANNOT be manipulated.
Mamaz said:
If you will notice that Satan right now is the god of this earth. Until Christ comes back will Jesus take over His truthful reign.. So I guess I am not seeing what the real question is that you are asking. Did God have to prove Himself? No Did God have something to Prove? No
The real question is exactly what I am asking. There is no hidden question in it..:scratch:
Okay I will remove the "have"
Did God want to prove to satan? If you believe this is true, why?
satan does not know the future as God does...? Does he allow satan these "rights" to be fair to satan..?
Like you know, God showing satan it is True love, unconditional love from us to Him?
If so what is the purpose? Is the purpose, in the end, to say "hey serpant, you had your earthly reign and it was fair game." ??

I apologise if my thoughts seem random, they are.

I have questioned the book of Job for a long time and just never came forward with my "WHY?" feelings on it?
Because God is ALWAYS right...I am wrong...I know this..the book still has me saying at the end.."that is so not fair" *sorry*
 
Upvote 0
M

MamaZ

Guest
This is not the same thing at all. You are comparing the sin adam committed of eating a forbidden fruit to Job's agony of loosing everything all to show he would remain faithful to God.
God already knew he would remain faithful as well I believe knew adam would rebel against him and sin.
Why then did he allow job to go through such torture, such agony?
Absolutely NOT!
I said it appears satan was attempting to manipulate God...BUT God CANNOT be manipulated.
The real question is exactly what I am asking. There is no hidden question in it..:scratch:
Okay I will remove the "have"
Did God want to prove to satan? If you believe this is true, why?
satan does not know the future as God does...? Does he allow satan these "rights" to be fair to satan..?
Like you know, God showing satan it is True love, unconditional love from us to Him?
If so what is the purpose? Is the purpose, in the end, to say "hey serpant, you had your earthly reign and it was fair game." ??

I apologise if my thoughts seem random, they are.

I have questioned the book of Job for a long time and just never came forward with my "WHY?" feelings on it?
Because God is ALWAYS right...I am wrong...I know this..the book still has me saying at the end.."that is so not fair" *sorry*
Oh Okay now that the have has been removed I truly do understand..I really didn't know what you were asking. Sorry.. I can only say that with these feelings of why you need to really take to the Lord. He will give you the answer you are seeking. Was it fair? All we have really is a blessing from the Lord..They are all gifts. They are not ours to hold on to. Not even children are ours to hold on to. Does it seem unfair? It could I guess if you looked at it from a worldy point of view.
 
Upvote 0
B

Bible2

Guest
Miracle Storm posted in message #1:

What is up with poor Job man?

Job is an example for us of patience in suffering:

James 5:10 ...Take, my brethren, the prophets, who
have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example
of suffering affliction, and of patience.
11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have
heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end
of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of
tender mercy.

Miracle Storm posted in message #1:

Did God have something to prove?

When God ultimately delivered Job from all of his
suffering and blessed him with tremendous blessings,
God proved that He has pity on and shows tender mercy
toward those who continue to love Him even in their
suffering.

Miracle Storm posted in message #1:

Why would he allow satan such rights to take
everything from job except for his life? Did He want
to prove satan wrong.

God's wanting to prove Satan wrong would have been
just one of the reasons for His allowing Satan rights
to take everything from Job except for his life.
There are at least three other reasons: 1. So that we
would have an amazing example of patience in
suffering. 2. So that God could show that He has pity
on and shows tender mercy toward those who continue
to love Him even in their suffering. And 3. So that
Job's character could be blessed and made even better
through his suffering:

Romans 5:3 ...And not only so, but we glory in
tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh
patience ...

Patience is the first attribute of agape love:

1 Corinthians 13:4 ...Charity [agape love] suffereth
long ...

1 Corinthians 13:4 (NIV) ...Love is patient ...

If we don't have patience, we don't have love, and if
we don't have love, we have nothing, no matter how
"spiritual" we may consider ourselves to be:

1 Corinthians 13:1 ...Though I speak with the tongues
of men and of angels, and have not charity [love], I
am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and
understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and
though I have all faith, so that I could remove
mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor,
and though I give my body to be burned, and have not
charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity
envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not
puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her
own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the
truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth
all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be
prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be
tongues, they shall cease; whether there be
knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that
which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I
understood as a child, I thought as a child: but
when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then
face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I
know even as also I am known.
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these
three; but the greatest of these is charity [love].

If our possessing even the greatest spiritual gifts
means nothing if we don't have love, the first
quality of which is patience, then how much more
meaningless are physical possessions if we don't have
love? And how meaningless is it to have the gift of
children if we don't love them, if we aren't patient
with them?

By taking everything away from Job and placing him in
a time of tribulation, God was giving Job an
increased measure of the greatest possession of all:
patience, and so love, that single possession which
alone can give meaning to having children and
possessions, which alone can give meaning to life
itself.

And God showed that Job was already on a higher level
of love wherein his love for God outweighed his love
for his children and his possessions, outweighed his
love for even his own life.

We must love God like that:

Mark 8:35 ...For whosoever will save his life shall
lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my
sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

John 12:25 ...He that loveth his life shall lose it;
and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep
it unto life eternal.

Matthew 10:37 ... he that loveth son or daughter more
than me is not worthy of me.

Luke 14:26 ...If any man come to me, and hate not his
father, and mother, and wife, and children, and
brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he
cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come
after me, cannot be my disciple.

Strong words! The ultimate claim upon our lives, a
claim that only our Creator can make, a claim that He
has every right to make, as Job well knew:

Job 1:18 ...Thy sons and thy daughters were eating
and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the
wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house,
and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead;
and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved
his head, and fell down upon the ground, and
worshipped,
21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb,
and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and
the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the
LORD.
22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God
foolishly.

Job 2:10 ... shall we receive good at the hand of God,
and shall we not receive evil? ...

Job 13:15 ...Though he slay me, yet will I trust in
him ...

How many of us could say that? And how many of us
could really mean it, when the rubber hits the road?
How many of us truly love God more than our own lives,
more than our children, more than our money and our
possessions? And how will we ever know for sure that
we do unless we go through a tribulation where we
lose everything like Job did and yet remain true to
God?

2 Thessalonians 1:4 ...So that we ourselves glory in
you in the churches of God for your patience and
faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that
ye endure ...

Hebrews 10:32 ... ye endured a great fight of
afflictions;
33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by
reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye
became companions of them that were so used.
34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took
joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in
yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an
enduring substance.
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which
hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have
done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come
will come, and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man
draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto
perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of
the soul.

Revelation 2:10 ...Fear none of those things which
thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some
of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye
shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful
unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit
saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not
be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 13:10 ...Here is the patience and the
faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12 ...Here is the patience of the
saints: here are they that keep the commandments of
God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me,
Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord
from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit ...

Revelation 20:4 ...I saw the souls of them that were
beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word
of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon
their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived
and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the
thousand years were finished. This is the first
resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first
resurrection: on such the second death hath no power,
but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and
shall reign with him a thousand years.

Luke 20:36 ...Neither can they die any more: for
they are equal unto the angels; and are the children
of God, being the children of the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:54 ... when this corruptible shall
have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have
put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the
saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in
victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is
thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of
sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory
through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast,
unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,
forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain
in the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:16 ... though our outward man perish,
yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a
moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and
eternal weight of glory;
18 While we look not at the things which are seen,
but at the things which are not seen: for the things
which are seen are temporal; but the things which
are not seen are eternal.
 
Upvote 0

Emmy

Senior Veteran
Feb 15, 2004
10,200
940
✟66,005.00
Faith
Salvation Army
Dear Miracle Storm. I always thought of the book of Job, as the life of a faithful servant of God, and saw myself, and all other Christians. I realised how Satan is always trying to spoil our lives, how much God loves, how great and wonderful HE is. It taught me to pray daily, to ask God to protect me from all evil snares, and be highly aware of Satan`s crafty temptations. To me, Job loves God, and trusts God, and is faithful to God, but sadly does`nt remember that God`s Adversary is always on the prowl. Jesus taught us to pray, (amongst other things) "deliver us from Evil," a daily prayer. I say this humbly and with love, Miracle Storm. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ. P.S perhaps God wanted to prove, that NO Matter how Satan works, it is God, who will have the last word, and always be in Command.
 
Upvote 0

Miracle Storm

...
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2005
22,697
1,213
✟97,196.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Dear Miracle Storm. I always thought of the book of Job, as the life of a faithful servant of God, and saw myself, and all other Christians. I realised how Satan is always trying to spoil our lives, how much God loves, how great and wonderful HE is. It taught me to pray daily, to ask God to protect me from all evil snares, and be highly aware of Satan`s crafty temptations. To me, Job loves God, and trusts God, and is faithful to God, but sadly does`nt remember that God`s Adversary is always on the prowl. Jesus taught us to pray, (amongst other things) "deliver us from Evil," a daily prayer. I say this humbly and with love, Miracle Storm. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ. P.S perhaps God wanted to prove, that NO Matter how Satan works, it is God, who will have the last word, and always be in Command.
God had the first and last word, one of which allowed satan to torment job.
As this goes still today I believe.
what I wonder is if satan still comes before God and gets "permission" of what he is allowed to do to his "prey" and how far he can go as he did with job..
 
Upvote 0

Sp0kenF0r

^Vaya con huevos
Jun 12, 2007
119
6
✟22,776.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Single
What is up with poor Job man?

Did God have something to prove? Why would he allow satan such rights to take everything from job except for his life? Did He want to prove satan wrong.

Yes people try to use the book as an encouragement...but I find it very discouraging.
Yes, he was given everything back and more..
but his kids had perished; they could not be replaced. Why did God allow this to happen to the man that was most faithful...?
Moreover why allow satan any rights to him at all?

i kinda agree i dont really like this story. his poor family all perished..and to prove a point. yea he had more kids and they were they were most beautiful in the east or something like that.. but still..

the point is, this situation can Not happen again. in 1:10 we see Job had a protecting "hedge" all arond him. but this hedge wasnt permenant and secure like the Blood of Jesus Christ is if you belong to him.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.