Jewish community vs. ACLU

[renegade pariah]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/440491.html

 

[SirKenin]

Pretty sure there is a rule against using this forum as a dumping ground for news.. Some of your own comments to start the discussion would be an asset.

 

[I'ddie4him]

Pretty sure there is a rule against using this forum as a dumping ground for news.. Some of your own comments to start the discussion would be an asset.

You are right DFG, However I agree with what the article has to say. We should be able to have some freedoms to observe our religious differences etc. in our own way as long as it doesn't create unmanagable problems.

 

[renegade pariah]

.....I often post something because of how some idea struck me within the article. Sometimes I like to see if others notice the same thing that struck me...without me putting my bias into the discussion. If an interesting discussion takes off, than I tend to get involved.

 

[2001MustangGT]

Pretty sure there is a rule against using this forum as a dumping ground for news.. Some of your own comments to start the discussion would be an asset.

True, but looking at this message board, it doesnt look like Renegade Periah is the first one you should be telling this to.

 

[Paula]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/440491.html

Actually, this is an interesting article well worth taking the time to read. Evidently, there is a shift in politics in the Jewish-American community, which now appears to be on the same side as the Southern Baptists and other Evangelical Christians, in fighting for and retaining their religious liberties in the workplace. This is unprecedented.

For Jewish organizations to be locking horns with the ACLU over religious matters is an indicator of a shift in wind direction. Under the Freedom in the Workplace Bill, Jewish employees would be allowed the right to observe the Sabbath and Jewish holidays, and the men to wear skullcaps at work. The ACLU is patently opposed to this bill, as it may adversely affect the rights of homosexuals and may result in discrimination.

 

[2001MustangGT]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/440491.html

Actually, this is an interesting article well worth taking the time to read. Evidently, there is a shift in politics in the Jewish-American community, which now appears to be on the same side as the Southern Baptists and other Evangelical Christians, in fighting for and retaining their religious liberties in the workplace. This is unprecedented.

For Jewish organizations to be locking horns with the ACLU over religious matters is an indicator of a shift in wind direction. Under the Freedom in the Workplace Bill, Jewish employees would be allowed the right to observe the Sabbath and Jewish holidays, and the men to wear skullcaps at work. The ACLU is patently opposed to this bill, as it may adversely affect the rights of homosexuals and may result in discrimination.

Good analysis Paula! Im unclear though, are you in favor of the Jewish community or the ACLU in this one?

Personally, I am in favor of the ACLU. OR I am in favor of giving everyone those Jewish holidays off. I do not agree with special priveleges for any religious group (no suprise there LOL)

But seriously, I could create a religion, and get it recognized by the government with tax exempt status...say to worship the Mustang God. Then I could sue for rights to my religious observances, like wearing only FORD Racing leather jackets and FORD Racing baseball caps, regardless of dress code or uniform requirements. Dont forget the holidays, like the birth of FORD Motor Company and the birth of the modular 4.6 liter engine. This is where the silliness becomes evident.

What would make it fair, giving all these different religious holidays off to everyone? Soon we would work less hours than Europeans! (maybe thats not actually a bad thing after all j/k)

I think the ACLU is correct, and special dress codes and days off for religious observances is not a good idea. It creates a slippery slope.

 

[crystalpc]

Good analysis Paula! Im unclear though, are you in favor of the Jewish community or the ACLU in this one?

Personally, I am in favor of the ACLU. OR I am in favor of giving everyone those Jewish holidays off. I do not agree with special priveleges for any religious group (no suprise there LOL)

But seriously, I could create a religion, and get it recognized by the government with tax exempt status...say to worship the Mustang God. Then I could sue for rights to my religious observances, like wearing only FORD Racing leather jackets and FORD Racing baseball caps, regardless of dress code or uniform requirements. Dont forget the holidays, like the birth of FORD Motor Company and the birth of the modular 4.6 liter engine. This is where the silliness becomes evident.

What would make it fair, giving all these different religious holidays off to everyone? Soon we would work less hours than Europeans! (maybe thats not actually a bad thing after all j/k)

I think the ACLU is correct, and special dress codes and days off for religious observances is not a good idea. It creates a slippery slope.

What of the muslim woman who have to wear the hajib? I see them working and employers do not force them to wear "civilian" clothes? What would be wrong with a skull cap, many employers allow that already. And for years Jewish people have been standing in for those who are expected to work on Christmas so they can be home with their family's the only slippery slope I see if it is a forced issue, rather than voluntarily by individual employers.

 

[SirKenin]

True, but looking at this message board, it doesnt look like Renegade Periah is the first one you should be telling this to.

True dat

 

[SirKenin]

As far as the article goes, I actually tend to agree with the ACLU on this one. Who would have thunk it?

 

[burrow_owl]

What of the muslim woman who have to wear the hajib? I see them working and employers do not force them to wear "civilian" clothes?

The point, evidently, is that private employers could force them to wear civilian clothes, not whether you've personally witnessed it. Although that does raise the odd question of how you'd even know if a muslim women were forced to wear civilian clothes. Is that a question you regularly ask of women with whom you do business: "so.......did anyone require that you don't wear a burka at work?" Hey, if you ask that as a matter of course, more power to you.

 

[Paula]

What of the muslim woman who have to wear the hajib? I see them working and employers do not force them to wear "civilian" clothes? What would be wrong with a skull cap, many employers allow that already. And for years Jewish people have been standing in for those who are expected to work on Christmas so they can be home with their family's the only slippery slope I see if it is a forced issue, rather than voluntarily by individual employers.

Private employers presently do have a great deal of discretion when it comes to workplace attire, and not all of them permit religious dress and/or jewelry, ornaments, etc. There are also cases where even state and city government employees are not permitted to have Christmas decorations in their offices, or wear jewelry with a cross or other religious emblem. This proposed bill ("WRFA") would prevent such problems as well.

Personally, I think the slippery slope issue is being exaggerated. I did some further checking, and from what I've read, the purpose of the bill is to create an atmosphere where everyone can be accommodated, and the employer would still retain a lot of discretion. No employee should have to choose between obedience to his (or her) faith and keeping their jobs. Allowances have been written into the bill so as to avoid undue hardship to the employer/business owner.

Good analysis Paula! Im unclear though, are you in favor of the Jewish community or the ACLU in this one?

Personally, I am in favor of the ACLU. OR I am in favor of giving everyone those Jewish holidays off. I do not agree with special priveleges for any religious group (no suprise there LOL)

I don't approve of special privileges either. Interestingly, I found that Muslim and Sikh organizations have also joined together with Christians and Jews in support of this bill ("WRFA") as it does have many positive aspects towards the mutual goal of free religious expression and the right to practice their faith in the workplace. So it isn't just for the Jewish community alone.

WRFA is backed by many senators, including Sen. John Kerry, who is the lead co-sponsor, along with Sen. Rick Santorum. I think the bill would resolve some existing problems with religious free expression and should be given a chance.

But seriously, I could create a religion, and get it recognized by the government with tax exempt status...say to worship the Mustang God. Then I could sue for rights to my religious observances, like wearing only FORD Racing leather jackets and FORD Racing baseball caps, regardless of dress code or uniform requirements. Dont forget the holidays, like the birth of FORD Motor Company and the birth of the modular 4.6 liter engine. This is where the silliness becomes evident.

The proposed bill addresses this problem by requiring employers to allow "additional modes of behavior required by the employee's religion, on condition these do not essentially affect the employee's work or cause the employer substantial difficulty or financial cost." In other words, the employer still would have a great deal of latitude as to where to draw the line so as not to jeopardize his (or her) business.

 

[Larry]

Pretty sure there is a rule against using this forum as a dumping ground for news.. Some of your own comments to start the discussion would be an asset.

I agree. But, renegade pariah does discuss in the forums. There are others who do absolutely no discussion in the forums, and exclusively dump news articles. Funny, when I say something about the blatant offenders of news dumping, I get jumped on by others. Maybe if my icon was different I'd get more nods of approval....nah.

 

[SirKenin]

What you need, then, is a Karate Pig in your avatar. But then I'd be mad and forced to throw a hissy fit... Is it REALLY worth it???

lolol

 

[Paula]

Is that what your avatar is? I thought it was some kind of gremlin.

 

[SirKenin]

Is that what your avatar is? I thought it was some kind of gremlin.

Hai! Be nice to the Pig

lol He's the guinea pig off the blockbuster commercials. I think he's hilarious.