Jesus through Mary

[IamAdopted]

http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM

Jesus Healed the blind and the deaf and cast out demons all without Mary. He walked on water without Mary.. He does nothing through Mary. This is an assumption that cannot be backed by Scripture.. Jesus is the ark of the covenant.. His name is emmanuel meaning God is with us.. Just as when the ark of the covenant was present God was with His people. Just as Jesus walked among the people God was with His people but His people rejected Him.. When Jesus died on the cross the veil was torn..

 

[repentant]

Jesus Healed the blind and the deaf and cast out demons all without Mary. He walked on water without Mary.. He does nothing through Mary. This is an assumption that cannot be backed by Scripture.. Jesus is the ark of the covenant.. His name is emmanuel meaning God is with us.. Just as when the ark of the covenant was present God was with His people. Just as Jesus walked among the people God was with His people but His people rejected Him.. When Jesus died on the cross the veil was torn..

Ok about the New Ark...How can Jesus be the Ark, when the Ark was not God, but contained His Word? Are you saying that a wooden/golden box was God? But Mary having God the Word within her, just like the Ark of the Covenant, makes her the new Ark.

 

[IamAdopted]

Ok about the New Ark...How can Jesus be the Ark, when the Ark was not God, but contained His Word? Are you saying that a wooden/golden box was God? But Mary having God the Word within her, just like the Ark of the Covenant, makes her the new Ark.

Yes the ark contained Gods word. Now who in the flesh was the word? Jesus. Not mary. He was the word wrapped in flesh. The new ark of the Covenant. Emmanuel. God is with us. When two or three are gathered in His name He is in the midst of us.

 

[WarriorAngel]

She still does not have any titles other than the earthly Mother of The Messiah.. For she was as human as you and I are and for all of us that do the will of the Father are Jesus brothers sisters and mothers.. The only one worthy enough to have any tilte is God.. For it is with HIm that all things are possible..

Do you not have many titles...?
Mother, Sister, Daughter, Receptionist, doctor...??
The list is endless on the many titles a singular person may have.
Do you or not have the many titles???
If you disagree, why?

Jesus is the second in the Godhead.. He is the only begotten son of the Most high God.. We have the Holy Spirit also.. Do you think that Jesus was praying to Himself as He sweat drops of blood? Do you think that when Jesus tells us that His father is greater than He that He just said this because He wanted to?

The point??

http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM

I'm not saying she didn't have free will. But given the situation of her being so devoted to God and humble before Him, I don't think this was a yes or no thing for her. If someone asked it of me I could only hope that it was as they said.

The angel told her God' plan and she welcomed it.

Matthew 1:22:
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord has spoken by the prophet.

[SIZE=-1]Isaiah 7:14-17[/SIZE]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings. [/FONT]

I am sure she knew the prophecy being Jewish and was humbled that God chose her, but like I said...I don't think "no" ever crossed her mind. She was just glad to be His servant and chosen to be the fulfiller of His word. My interpretation of "let it be" is that she is saying that she can only hope that it's as the angel said.

Luke 1:45
And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.

TO be....is an action. To be a servant is a choice.

God never works against our free will.
OR WE would ALL be saved...since this is what He desires.
HE leaves it to mankind.

He knows our choices....doesnt mean He imposes.

Sure, now take that little bit of backwards reasoning, and add the.........because of this, Mary is NOW doing this.

Example: Because Mary gave birth to Christ, becoming our Mediatrix of Grace that comes from Christ.....

NOW

.......God did not put her aside, but she is now the one who Grace flows from the Father, to the Son, to Mary....who is NOW the Mediatrix and decision maker of Grace.

Now just pass that fruit around.

Funny, the scriptures tell us, or rather asks us who can counsel God??

God knew in Genesis 3:15 that He was sending His only Son to be man...
God also knew whom He would create then and there the Mother ...

Do you think God took 4000 years of painstaking detail in giving prophecies in the OT, only to 'wing it' when the time came??

Once again bringing God down to a human level where He is not.. For God is exhaulted above the heavens and the earth.. The Holy Spirit did not enspouse Mary.. He conceived The uncorruptable seed.. The Holy Spirit is not married and never has been for Marriage is for earth only.. For in Heaven there is no marriage therefore the Holy Spirit being God does not marry.. This is from the phylosophy of man and not of the scriptures.. It was not through her word that John the Baptist was anything. It was through Christ in her for even though He was in the womb He still was The Messiah..

Pardon, but God did come down to our level.

God did NOT conceive. Mary conceived.

Scriptures tell us marriage is to become one, like God is one.
As far as the Holy Spirit being married to Mary....it is, like all things, only for God to understand the Spiritual union ONLY He was a part of.

Is it like human marriage...?
NO!

Is it beyond comprehension..? YES.

I dont understand it, and I dont explain it away as impossible.
God doesnt have the limits ppl put on Him.

Over and again, ppl say God cannot ....
I say God can.

 

[IamAdopted]

God never works against our free will.

I can show you in scripture where He does.

Pardon, but God did come down to our level

NO Jesus came down to our level.

God did NOT conceive. Mary conceived.

your point being?

Scriptures tell us marriage is to become one,

In marrige we become one Flesh.. God is not flesh He is Spirit.

As far as the Holy Spirit being married to Mary....it is, like all things, only for God to understand the Spiritual union ONLY He was a part of.

It was a miracle conception. Never married to Mary. The Holy Spirit is not a spouse to anyone. He is the sealer of Gods people and the Spirit of Truth. We cannot bring God the Father down to human level to say that the HS was enspoused to Mary. For God is not a man. Jesus became flesh but God never Did.

 

[repentant]

Yes the ark contained Gods word. Now who in the flesh was the word? Jesus. Not mary. He was the word wrapped in flesh. The new ark of the Covenant. Emmanuel. God is with us. When two or three are gathered in His name He is in the midst of us.

OK one more time..

Ark contained the Word of God.

Jesus IS the Word of God.

Jesus was in Mary's womb, so therefore, Mary contained the Word of God within her.

Mary is the New Ark, which contained the Word of God.

Jesus is not the Ark, as He does not contain the Word of God, but IS the Word of God.

Do you understand?

 

[WarriorAngel]

Thanks repentent.
Succint.

IamAdopted, I am unsure how you view Jesus.
Is He or is He not God?

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

pretty obvious to me she thinks Jesus is God...don't see how you are all missing it...she has stated such many times.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Jesus is the second in the Godhead.. He is the only begotten son of the Most high God.. We have the Holy Spirit also.. Do you think that Jesus was praying to Himself as He sweat drops of blood? Do you think that when Jesus tells us that His father is greater than He that He just said this because He wanted to?

How about scripture telling us 'He BECAME lower than angels...'
IE, He became flesh...so He was lower than God.
That doesnt mean He ceased Being God... But He was lowered to our level.

Notice how He says after the Resurrection...'ALL power and Glory has been given to Me...'

His Resurrection released Him to once again be the Essense He was before...Higher than Angels.

And I think I saw you suggest that Mary cannot be the Mother of God because that would mean then she would be carrying the Holy Trinity...??

Again, if I am correct in seeing you state this...do you believe Jesus is God?

You believe Jesus prays to the Father, and you believe in the HS but I am sure you are not saying they are the same. I agree, three co equal Persons of the Trinity.

So, if Jesus is God, then He certainly was born of Mary...then she is certainly the Mother of God.

I forget who tried to convince others to follow him by saying Jesus was two seperate beings. Something like 50% God, 50% man...
Weird. I forget.

 

[IamAdopted]

OK one more time..

Ark contained the Word of God.

Jesus IS the Word of God.

Jesus was in Mary's womb, so therefore, Mary contained the Word of God within her.

Mary is the New Ark, which contained the Word of God.

Jesus is not the Ark, as He does not contain the Word of God, but IS the Word of God.

Do you understand?

Okay one more time for you. Jesus was the word before He became flesh. When He became flesh He was the Word of God wrapped in flesh. The new ark of the covenant. He was God with us.. When He died the veil was torn in two. Where the Law or the Word of God sat in the ark is now Jesus. For He is the word of God that became flesh. It is through Him that we come to the Father now. Not by obeying the law but through grace of Christ and Him crucified. Mary is not God is with us. Jesus is. Just as the ark of the covenant was God with us So is Jesus now. Immanuel. Gods word now flesh.

 

[IamAdopted]

How about scripture telling us 'He BECAME lower than angels...'
IE, He became flesh...so He was lower than God.
That doesnt mean He ceased Being God... But He was lowered to our level.

Notice how He says after the Resurrection...'ALL power and Glory has been given to Me...'

His Resurrection released Him to once again be the Essense He was before...Higher than Angels.

And I think I saw you suggest that Mary cannot be the Mother of God because that would mean then she would be carrying the Holy Trinity...??

Again, if I am correct in seeing you state this...do you believe Jesus is God?

You believe Jesus prays to the Father, and you believe in the HS but I am sure you are not saying they are the same. I agree, three co equal Persons of the Trinity.

So, if Jesus is God, then He certainly was born of Mary...then she is certainly the Mother of God.

I forget who tried to convince others to follow him by saying Jesus was two seperate beings. Something like 50% God, 50% man...
Weird. I forget.

Mary had nothing to do with Christs diety. All she did was give HIm the humanity. For Jesus comes from the Father. Not from Mary. Mary gave the Already God flesh. He was sent from the Father to earth to become human to die for our sins and bring us into realtionship with God the Father. Jesus was God before the flesh of Him was formed. She was the channel that this wonderful King came to His own creation.

 

[lionroar0]

Mary had nothing to do with Christs diety. All she did was give HIm the humanity. For Jesus comes from the Father. Not from Mary. Mary gave the Already God flesh. He was sent from the Father to earth to become human to die for our sins and bring us into realtionship with God the Father. Jesus was God before the flesh of Him was formed. She was the channel that this wonderful King came to His own creation.

ANd you have been corrected on this repeatly. Here it is yet again. We do no claim that Mary gave Jesus His divinity. His humanity came from Mary. Jesus being one in essence with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Mary can be rightfully and correctly called the Mother of God.

This is what is belived by all Christians everywhere.

IF someone does not they are either not christian or do not have a proper understanding of the Trinity.

Peace

 

[Benedicta00]

The Nestorian heresy is still with us

 

[WarriorAngel]

Okay one more time for you. Jesus was the word before He became flesh. When He became flesh He was the Word of God wrapped in flesh. The new ark of the covenant. He was God with us.. When He died the veil was torn in two. Where the Law or the Word of God sat in the ark is now Jesus. For He is the word of God that became flesh. It is through Him that we come to the Father now. Not by obeying the law but through grace of Christ and Him crucified. Mary is not God is with us. Jesus is. Just as the ark of the covenant was God with us So is Jesus now. Immanuel. Gods word now flesh.

Something told me to hold off posting the other day.
And I went to Mass....
Here is the answer.

Reading II
Phil 2:6-11

Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
something to be grasped.
Rather, he emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
coming in human likeness;
and found human in appearance,
he humbled himself,
becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.
Because of this, God greatly exalted him
and bestowed on him the name
which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus
every knee should bend,
of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and every tongue confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

 

[IamAdopted]

Something told me to hold off posting the other day.
And I went to Mass....
Here is the answer.

Reading II
Phil 2:6-11

Christ Jesus, though he was in the form of God,
did not regard equality with God
something to be grasped.
Rather, he emptied himself,
taking the form of a slave,
coming in human likeness;
and found human in appearance,
he humbled himself,
becoming obedient to the point of death,
even death on a cross.
Because of this, God greatly exalted him
and bestowed on him the name
which is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus
every knee should bend,
of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and every tongue confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

And what may I ask does this have to do with Mary? Nothing. Jesus name is above all names. Although He emptied Himself out it was for us. He came in Human likeness. This is why Jesus came. To be obedient to death not for His sake but for all of us who will call upon His name and believe that with His death on the Cross we are forgiven for all our sin. Being born of His spirit and Washed in His blood. Joint heirs with Him.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Curiously....to be heirs of everything Jesus...
Doesnt that mean to accept HIS Mother as ours?

To fully have Christ in everything, I believe He shared His Mother with us.

Anyway, the OP as stated was WHY Mary is the bearing of Grace...the mediatrix...etc

Because through HER powerful and unforgetable YES....submitting fully to the Father as NO human had done before to bring all of humanity their Savior.

A porper thank you is in order. To which since we love the Savior Who came to humanity through HER, we must fully be thankful to her actions.

To dismiss her is to dismiss the significant importance of her YES.

Because Christ choose Her, Whom He created, He loves Her as a Mother...

In 2007 that kind of love might not mean as much as it did for God...
But an all loving God has favored Her.

THIS is how we have grace, and a mediator.
By her assictance...we have Christ.

Let's not forget that.
He certainly doesnt want us to.

 

[IamAdopted]

Curiously....to be heirs of everything Jesus...
Doesnt that mean to accept HIS Mother as ours?

To fully have Christ in everything, I believe He shared His Mother with us.

Anyway, the OP as stated was WHY Mary is the bearing of Grace...the mediatrix...etc

Because through HER powerful and unforgetable YES....submitting fully to the Father as NO human had done before to bring all of humanity their Savior.

A porper thank you is in order. To which since we love the Savior Who came to humanity through HER, we must fully be thankful to her actions.

To dismiss her is to dismiss the significant importance of her YES.

Because Christ choose Her, Whom He created, He loves Her as a Mother...

In 2007 that kind of love might not mean as much as it did for God...
But an all loving God has favored Her.

THIS is how we have grace, and a mediator.
By her assictance...we have Christ.

Let's not forget that.
He certainly doesnt want us to.

I do not need to accept Mary as my mother for the bible tells me who believers mother is in Galatians 4. It is very plainly stated in there. Mary is not my mother never has been. I never knew this sister in the Lord. Mary can give out no grace for it is all contained in Christ. The bible states this over and over. Mary is a Human being that has passed on and is no longer available to the living here on earth.

 

[IamAdopted]

Curiously....to be heirs of everything Jesus...
Doesnt that mean to accept HIS Mother as ours?

To fully have Christ in everything, I believe He shared His Mother with us.

Anyway, the OP as stated was WHY Mary is the bearing of Grace...the mediatrix...etc

Because through HER powerful and unforgetable YES....submitting fully to the Father as NO human had done before to bring all of humanity their Savior.

A porper thank you is in order. To which since we love the Savior Who came to humanity through HER, we must fully be thankful to her actions.

To dismiss her is to dismiss the significant importance of her YES.

Because Christ choose Her, Whom He created, He loves Her as a Mother...

In 2007 that kind of love might not mean as much as it did for God...
But an all loving God has favored Her.

THIS is how we have grace, and a mediator.
By her assictance...we have Christ.

Let's not forget that.
He certainly doesnt want us to.

Sorry but Mary didn't say yes anymore than any one else who has received Christ and said let it be according to your word Lord. For this is true salvation is to receive Christ as Gods word speaks of Him and the Father and the Holy Spirit. Some man has given Mary this title and not God. You can find this no where in scripture. It was an assumption of man.

 

[repentant]

Okay one more time for you. Jesus was the word before He became flesh. When He became flesh He was the Word of God wrapped in flesh. The new ark of the covenant. He was God with us.. When He died the veil was torn in two. Where the Law or the Word of God sat in the ark is now Jesus. For He is the word of God that became flesh. It is through Him that we come to the Father now. Not by obeying the law but through grace of Christ and Him crucified. Mary is not God is with us. Jesus is. Just as the ark of the covenant was God with us So is Jesus now. Immanuel. Gods word now flesh.

ok...

I guess since Jesus was God wrapped in flesh, His flesh was the Ark.....oh wait it can't be, since you can't seperate His Humanity and Divinity...

 

[IamAdopted]

ok...

I guess since Jesus was God wrapped in flesh, His flesh was the Ark.....oh wait it can't be, since you can't seperate His Humanity and Divinity...

Oh brother.. You are a hoot. Can you seperate the gopher wood from Gods divinity? Or was God born in a box? Jesus was the word Made flesh. The New Ark. God with us. Same as the Ark was God with us. His word contained in the Ark. Jesus is Gods word contained in a human likeness.