Jesus' plunder

tonychanyt

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Jesus cast out a demon in (NIV) Luke 11:

14 Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. When the demon left, the man who had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed. 15 But some of them said, “By Beelzebul, the prince of demons, he is driving out demons.”
Some were skeptical about the authenticity. Jesus explained to them:

17b “Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall. 18a If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand?"
The prince of demons was Beelzebul/Satan.

21 When a strong man,
i.e., Satan

fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are safe; 22 but when one stronger
i.e., Jesus

attacks and overpowers him, he takes away the armor in which the man trusted and divides up his plunder
i.e., Jesus' victorious plunder/spoils over Satan

NKJV:

he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils.
Jesus frees men's souls from Satan's bondage.
 
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Josheb

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Jesus cast out a demon in (NIV) Luke 11:


Some were skeptical about the authenticity. Jesus explained to them:


The prince of demons was Beelzebul/Satan.


i.e., Satan


i.e., Jesus


i.e., Jesus' victorious plunder/spoils over Satan

NKJV:


Jesus frees men's souls from Satan's bondage.
Anything else?


What is "Satan's bondage"? Are you aware the word "bondage is used only six times in the English translations of the New Testament and none of them say anything about "Satan's bondage"? The closest you'll find are verses like Luke 13:16 when Jesus speaks of having bound someone (like the sick woman Jesus healed).
 
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Josheb

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By Satan's bondage, I meant Satan's control over individuals.
Got scripture for that?
Have you ever been under Satan's bondage?
Irrelevant. You will either stay on topic and keep the posts about the posts or you won't. If you do not, then I'll simply post my thoughts and move on without any regard for anything you have to post. I'd prefer to have a polite, respectful, cogent and coherent, reasonable and rational, conversation couched in well-rendered scripture. Is that of interest to you? Let me know. Keep the posts about the posts, not the posters. Leave me out of your posts. Ask me all the questions you want about the op (keep them op relevant).


"Satan's bondage" is Satan's control over others. Great. What is the scripture used to support that definition of "Satan's bandage"?

What happened when Satan disobeyed God? What happened when Satan sinned? (be brief)
 
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Josheb

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Are you familiar with First-Order Logic? I prefer to argue with people who are. See A Disciplined Probabilistic Approach to Biblical Hermeneutics
Yes.
If that were true then the answer to the question asked would have been answered and not ignored. That would have been the incremental step in logic. You've not lived up to your own standards and you will find I can be fairly exacting when it comes to logic and fallacy. All very easily avoided when you and I provide parity and stay op-relevant. The questions asked were...

Have you got scripture for the premise "Satan's bondage" is Satan's control of others?

....and...

What happened when Satan disobeyed God? What happened when Satan sinned? (be brief)

I should not have to ask more than once IF you're actually interested in "detailed step-by-step logical deductions." Just answer the questions asked. Take the opportunity to build from consensus, first with scripture and only then with me, and move the conversation forward. You cannot baselessly assert claims about Satan's bondage and also claim to have held to your own "step-by-step" standard. Just answer the questions asked.


Have you got scripture for the premise "Satan's bondage" is Satan's control of others?

....and...

What happened when Satan disobeyed God? What happened when Satan sinned? (be brief)
.
 
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Josheb

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Here's the Luke 11 passage as a whole...

Luke 11:14-23
And he was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed. But some of them said, "He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons." Others, to test him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven. But he knew their thoughts and said to them, "Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls. "If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul. And if I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? So they will be your judges. But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. But when someone stronger than he attacks him and overpowers him, he takes away from him all his armor on which he had relied and distributes his plunder. He who is not with me is against me; and he who does not gather with me, scatters."

Jesus has just cast a demon out of a man who'd been made mute by the demon, and now the man could speak and the crowds were amazed. Their amazement, however, is not simply that Jesus was able to cast out a demon but that he did so by the power of Beelzebub. Why should they be amazed someone has the power of Beelzebub? Why should they be amazed Jesus has the power of Beelzebub to cast out demons over which Beelzebub ruled? Since Beelzebub is king of the demons, he certainly has such power. There's nothing amazing about that power. What's amazing is that a man should have that power.

Jesus later asks by who do the sons of Israel cast out demons, implying both the sons of Israel and Jesus cast out demons by the power of someone other than Beelzebub. Jesus draws attention to the inconsistency in their thinking and reaction. Notice assumes, accepts, and asserts as a given their sons cast out demons by some power other than Beelzebub's - otherwise the audience must acknowledge their sons have the power of Beelzebub, too. It also implies their lack of faith: God couldn't possibly be behind Jesus' power; it must be due to Beelzebub. Beelzebub is, apparently, very powerful.

The problem is: Beelzebub is a myth! Beelzebub was a pagan god of Philistines, not the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, not the only God that actually exists. Beelzebub is not Satan. In other words, to understand what the audience had just witnessed they appealed to the pagan cultures, not Tanakh or monotheist Judaism. The episode subtly betrays how far from God Jesus' audience had fallen.

Notice also Jesus explicitly states the kingdom of God had come upon them. Right then, right there in front of them, right before their very eyes the kingdom had come. Its witness was Jesus commanding demons and liberating a son of Abraham. His audience attributed it to a pagan god that didn't actually exist. They attributed the kingdom action to the lord of the flies.

Jesus responds by the analogy of the possession guarding strong man who is attacked and overpowered and then subsequently has his possessions taken away by someone stronger than the strong man. The word in the Greek for "plunder" or "spoils" is a word specifically for possessions taken from an enemy or foe. In ancient time a portion of a soldiers pay was what loot he could carry from his enemy once the enemy was defeated. The soldiers wage for fighting was meager, but what he might be able to carry off from a defeated adversary could make him wealthy.

So what does Satan possess that Jesus can take for his own?

The demon possessed..... slave to sin.

That last part is important because Satan and his other demons cannot possess a sinless person. Furthermore, Satan and the other demons are themselves also enslaved. The wages of sin is death (Rom. 6:23). That is just as true for the adversary and his fellow devils as it is from every human who disobeys God. The reality is the one owning the slave of sin who is dead in his or her transgressions is himself a slave of sin who is also dead in his transgression. He's not actually a strong man. He is neither strong, nor human. Jesus came to set the captives free from sin and undo the works of the devil. The episode described in Luke 11 is Jesus doing exactly what he came to do. Jesus is the only actual strong man in the episode, but his audience does not understand that. They think Beelzebub really exists and they think Jesus is acting within Beelzebub's power and not his own power. By describing how an even stronger person is necessary to overpower a lesser strong man he is imply he is the stronger man, a man stronger than the demon he cast out, stronger than the mythical Beelzebub his audience imagines to be at work. It never occurs to them a Spirit greater than the possessing demon or that demon's lord, Beelzebub, could be the impetus for what they'd just witnessed.
 
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Josheb

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Now, as to "Satan's plunder," the fact is Satan does not actually own anything. People give him more credit than he is due. Just as the Luke 11 audience attributed Jesus power to the pagan lord of the flies, so too many today attribute to Satan power he does not possess, and thereby possessions he does not own.

The prophet Isaiah describes how the bearer of light (lucifer) rebelled, was stripped of his glory, and was cast out of heaven (Isa. 14). Jesus reports he saw the adversary (satan) fall from heaven (Lk. 10). Satan roams the earth looking of who he might devour (1 Pet. 5:8), but the fact is he does not devour Christians, and he himself is devoured by sin. In other words, the people Satan "devours" are people who are already dead in sin (Rom. 3:23). Within the Judaic paradigm of the first century this would have been understood as Satan being unclean and devouring the unclean (a reference to the Law of Moses). Satan, an unclean creature himself, is a carrion eater. That idiom is largely lost on the 21st century reader. Satan is a created creature, not a God. The Creator created the creature, and that creature has had all his glory stripped from him. Jude 1 tells us the angels who did not keep their proper abode have been held in bonds of eternal darkness awaiting their day of judgment. Satan is not a free agent. We know from Job that he comes when summoned and can do nothing but what God permits. Satan had to ask before he could sift Peter (Lk. 22:31). Even when Paul alludes to him as the ruler of the air (Eph. 2:2) the fact is Jesus, and Jesus alone, is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Nothing in the entire Bible should be read or interpreted to contradict that fact. The sin-enslaved, bound in darkness, creature Satan is a minion; he's not actually ruler of anything. Paul also tells us that those wearing the armor of God can extinguish all of Satan's fiery schemes (Eph. 6) and James tells us Satan flees when resisted (Jms. 4:7). He's not much of an adversary or a ruler if he flees when resisted. The problem is some teachers select one or two verses and make Satan bigger, better, stronger than he is actually.

The Luke 11 passage isn't actually about Satan. It's about Jesus, the kingdom having come upon that audience right then and there and Jesus saving a man from sin, bondage, death and the eventual wrath of God that would otherwise occur if the possessed man - or any human - did not call on the name of Christ as his Lord and Savior (Jn. 3:18).

Salvation is the sole privilege of humanity. Satan does not get salvation. He gets tossed in the fiery lake that is so destructively lethal even death is destroyed (Rev. 20:10). There's no record of salvation from sin ever even being offered to an angel. Anyone who sins falls short of God's glory and his or her wage is death. But a way has been made for humans - and humans alone - to receive salvation from sin, death and wrath. That way comes through the blood, the work, of Christ on Calvary.

The strong man so strong he defeated even death.

When Jesus came to earth he had no difficulty commanding demons. He had no difficulty commanding the elements of creation. He knew God's word thoroughly, the hearts of men, healed the sick, blind, deaf, lame, etc. and still few believed all the messianic prophesies of Tanakh were fulfilled in the one man they thought welded the power of Beelzebub. That guy defeated the grave.

Ephesians 4:8
Therefore, it says, “When he ascended on high, he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”
 
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