Jesus only gone for 2 days = 2000 years

ephesians4:2

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I don't agree with many of Bethwhite's posts but I do find this one interesting.

But I did notice one thing:
2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Its an example not a mathematical formula. We are children, we cannot and will not comprehend every facet of God's plan whether it be the "rapture" or what exactly God considers a year to be in his own reference of time. God created the very nature of time so there is no telling.
 
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Bethwhite

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So, to return to the question, do you believe that Christians who don't want to go in the rapture are taken anyway?




…

All (of the living) who belong to Jesus and are ready, will go with the church (dead and living) to the throne of God.

How is a person ready? They are born of the Spirit.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
 
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Dwylcs

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All (of the living) who belong to Jesus and are ready, will go with the church (dead and living) to the throne of God.

How is a person ready? They are born of the Spirit.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


So if a Christian, born of the Spirit, refuses to go in the rapture, then they won't get any choice in the matter?
If so, how would this be different to the Beast 'overreaching governmental boundaries' by forcing people to comply to his will without choice?

(A number of Christians have openly stated that they do not want to go in a pre-trib rapture.)



…
 
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Bethwhite

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So if a Christian, born of the Spirit, refuses to go in the rapture, then they won't get any choice in the matter?
If so, how would this be different to the Beast 'overreaching governmental boundaries' by forcing people to comply to his will without choice?

(A number of Christians have openly stated that they do not want to go in a pre-trib rapture.)



…

A person who is born of the Spirit of God has the Spirit of God within him/her.

If the Spirit of God is leading a person, the person won't prefer to stay in an evil world when God appears. What is the motivation of a person who claims to love Jesus but doesn't want to be with Him when He calls us? Are they thinking, "I don't want to choose God and I don't want to choose the devil, so I'll just sit on the fence."? Sorry, but that's not an option. They have to choose. Not choosing God, whole-heartedly, is choosing the devil.

It's no different than Lot's wife. God said go and don't look back but she longed for what was being destroyed and looked back, so she was destroyed.

Matt 22:Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. 4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.
13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”
 
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Marantha

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Bethwhite said:

It's no different than Lot's wife. God said go and don't look back but she longed for what was being destroyed and looked back, so she was destroyed.




Further testimony to witness what was so well spoken by Bethwhite:

Luke

{17:32} Remember Lot’s wife.
{17:33} Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and
whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
{17:34} I tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
{17:35} Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
{17:36} Two [men] shall be in the field;
the one shall be taken, and the other left.
{17:37} And they
answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said
unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles
be gathered together
.

The body is the body of Christ, I do not know whether that is a physical body or a spiritual body. The Eagles are the Saints of Christ. Hallelujah

Come Lord Jesus
Marantha
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Some Christians will want to stay with the suffering to comfort them. This becomes inherent withing Christians, kindness and wanting to be with them in their dispare. Christian do this all over the earth even now. Is they see other people staying behind to suffer, they may jump ship just by "Christian human nature." It may be foolish, but noing people i can see it happening to a few out of many thousands. (this is a sort of crazy topic, but it's a question)

So they will want to stay to satisfy their need to feel compassionate, and that over rides the obedience to God's call. If they refuse to go at the command of God to come up hither, they have chosen disobedience and rebellion over obedience and life. But you are right, there will be those who refuse to go.
 
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Keachian

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I find this very scary, the focus is on how do I escape evil, or hell, and not how do I glorify God, how do I be Christ-like, if the only reason you are following Christ is to stop being singed whether in hell or tribulation you've already got you ticket punched and that's where you're heading
 
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Bethwhite

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I find this very scary, the focus is on how do I escape evil, or hell, and not how do I glorify God, how do I be Christ-like, if the only reason you are following Christ is to stop being singed whether in hell or tribulation you've already got you ticket punched and that's where you're heading

What you don't seem to understand is that all of this ends in the wrath and judgment of God, condemnation. There's nothing else. There's no, "oh I don't agree with judgment and wrath of God so I'll go sit over here and ignore it."

If you don't have Jesus, you are under wrath and condemned.

It is by Jesus that we have salvation. Salvation MEANS deliverance/escape from destruction and harm.


John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
 
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Keachian

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What you don't seem to understand is that all of this ends in the wrath and judgment of God, condemnation. There's nothing else. There's no, "oh I don't agree with judgment and wrath of God so I'll go sit over here and ignore it."
I do understand that, and I do say that, in fact in this thread I have said that: http://www.christianforums.com/t7728625-6/#post62577628

If you don't have Jesus, you are under wrath and condemned.

It is by Jesus that we have salvation. Salvation MEANS deliverance/escape from destruction and harm.
But it is not the salvation that we come to Jesus for, we come to Jesus because he is worthy to be served.
 
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Bethwhite

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I do understand that, and I do say that, in fact in this thread I have said that: http://www.christianforums.com/t7728625-6/#post62577628


But it is not the salvation that we come to Jesus for, we come to Jesus because he is worthy to be served.

...because He is GOD, our creator and Heavenly Father, who gave of Himself on a cross so that we can live forever with Him, because we know Him and love Him.

Salvation MEANS deliverance/escape from destruction.
 
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Gnarwhal

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Salvation is God became man so that man could become like God, we participate in the life of the Church and pursue Theosis, in this we are healed of the disease of sin (it's not a crime/punishment model).

...the Incarnation is not only an act of love but an act of salvation. Jesus Christ, by uniting man and God in his own person, reopened for man the path to union with God. In his own person Christ showed what the true 'likeness of God' is, and through his redeeming and victorious sacrifice he set that likeness once again within man's reach. Christ, the Second Adam, came to earth and reversed the effects of the first Adam's disobedience.

Salvation means that the world is not an end in and of itself. It is a reality that points to the larger reality of God's love for us and all that surrounds us. The world, time, history, our very lives are "an epiphany of God, a means of his revelation, presence and power."
God did not abandon his people after Christ's ascension into heaven. His Church, starting on Pentecost, is still with us today.

The final coming of Christ will be the judgment of all men. His very presence will be the judgment. For those who love the Lord, his presence will be infinite joy, paradise and eternal life. For those who hate the Lord, the same presence will be infinite torture, hell and eternal death.​
 
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Dwylcs

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A person who is born of the Spirit of God has the Spirit of God within him/her.

If the Spirit of God is leading a person, the person won't prefer to stay in an evil world when God appears. What is the motivation of a person who claims to love Jesus but doesn't want to be with Him when He calls us? Are they thinking, "I don't want to choose God and I don't want to choose the devil, so I'll just sit on the fence."? Sorry, but that's not an option. They have to choose. Not choosing God, whole-heartedly, is choosing the devil.

It's no different than Lot's wife. God said go and don't look back but she longed for what was being destroyed and looked back, so she was destroyed.

Matt 22:Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come. 4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’
5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.
13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”



Eighteen years ago I would have agreed with such a conclusion, but there are a number of points which also need our consideration. I'll start with this one:

Here is choice, and the strongest indication of responsibility in this portion of Rev 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience" *

This doesn't say because you are already my followers - it doesn't mention 'born again', nor does it mention Church goers or our state in any sense, it mentions clear responsibility which infers 'choice'.
This is put this way for a reason.


Which begs the questions, what is this 'word of his patience', and what happens to those Christians who don't keep this "word of his patience'?


NB: It's only fair to state here that this 'word of his patience' is different to what people realize.







* [Whole verse: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."]

…
 
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Bethwhite

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Eighteen years ago I would have agreed with such a conclusion, but there are a number of points which also need our consideration. I'll start with this one:

Here is choice, and the strongest indication of responsibility in this portion of Rev 3:10
"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience" *

This doesn't say because you are already my followers - it doesn't mention 'born again', nor does it mention Church goers or our state in any sense, it mentions clear responsibility which infers 'choice'.
This is put this way for a reason.


Which begs the questions, what is this 'word of his patience', and what happens to those Christians who don't keep this "word of his patience'?


NB: It's only fair to state here that this 'word of his patience' is different to what people realize.







* [Whole verse: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."]

…

Philadelphia means brotherly love. Church means believers in Christ's sacrifice.

"Kept the word of my patience" means "waited patiently or endured".

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Rev 1:9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

I don't know what you're point is.
 
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Keachian

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Philadelphia means brotherly love. Church means believers in Christ's sacrifice.

Philadelphia is also the name of a city in ancient Turkey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaşehir

Historical context people, it is important. The seven letters were written to seven churches in Asia, if we find cities in Asia that correspond to these cities there is no need to allegorise them, and you guys say we allegorise too much, sheesh
 
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Dwylcs

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I don't know what you're point is.

"Consideration for people's right of first refusal, whether they are Christians or not."


Sorry, but the 'word of his patience' is totally different to that.
It's a special word which is yet to be poured out on the whole world.
I had to humble myself to accept that things are maybe different than what we have predisposed ourselves to.

It still leaves the 'choice' matter unanswered. i.e, 'the keeping of this word', and the consequences of those who don't keep it.


…
 
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dana b

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"Consideration for people's right of first refusal, whether they are Christians or not."


Sorry, but the 'word of his patience' is totally different to that.
It's a special word which is yet to be poured out on the whole world.
I had to humble myself to accept that things are maybe different than what we have predisposed ourselves to.

It still leaves the 'choice' matter unanswered. i.e, 'the keeping of this word', and the consequences of those who don't keep it.


…



The "word of his patience" means following, keeping the word of his Sermon on the Mount for example.(Matt. chapters 5-7) It means that you try your hardest to walk the walk and not just study and talk the talk. To follow Jesus's "word" you must be patient as he was, as they led him off. Jesus himself says in the end of the Bible;

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be." Rev.22;12

Jesus knew that "keeping the word of his patience" would not be easy. It is difficult in certain ways pretaining to the world. It is easy and most fulfilling inside our conscience. So although Christians seem to be struggling through life as is everyone else, inside themselves they carry the kingdom of heaven. Lk.17;21
 
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Dwylcs

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The "word of his patience" means following, keeping the word of his Sermon on the Mount for example.(Matt. chapters 5-7) It means that you try your hardest to walk the walk and not just study and talk the talk. To follow Jesus's "word" you must be patient as he was, as they led him off. Jesus himself says in the end of the Bible;

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his works shall be." Rev.22;12

Jesus knew that "keeping the word of his patience" would not be easy. It is difficult in certain ways pretaining to the world. It is easy and most fulfilling inside our conscience. So although Christians seem to be struggling through life as is everyone else, inside themselves they carry the kingdom of heaven. Lk.17;21


Again many years ago I would agree with you.
I say this humbly, but just maybe I have been shown something which you may not be aware of, which was promised to me over forty years ago, along with other things which have come to pass.



…
 
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dana b

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Again many years ago I would agree with you.
I say this humbly, but just maybe I have been shown something which you may not be aware of, which was promised to me over forty years ago, along with other things which have come to pass.



…



Jesus taugh "the sermon on the Mount." Matt.5-7 Then the 5000 of so people listening went home. That was sufficiant for mankind. The Sermon on the mount is what he taught us to become his followers.

What he said to his diciples about theological matters is for scholars and theologically inclined specialists. The Sermon on the mount is for the masses. It is all that is necessary to be a Christian and inherit eternal life. He did not expect most people to know or undersand more than this.

For this reason i wrote above, "it is the word of his patience." We must indeed have patience to follow Jesus words in the sermon on the mount.
 
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