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Jesus is trying to save us, again and again

FutureAndAHope

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Predestination, a doctrine I fervently deny, states that God has pre-chosen certain people for life, and no matter their deeds, they will be saved. The rest are left to damnation. However, this is not the way Jesus described salvation in the following parable.

Luke 13:6-9 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "​

We see God coming again and again to try to save the individual, if they don’t bear fruit, God still tries further. If the person responds, then they are saved. If they still refuse, they are damned.

Predestination says that God just randomly selects people to give sight, the rest are blinded. But that is not consistent with the above view of scripture.
 

Clare73

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Predestination, a doctrine I fervently deny, states that God has pre-chosen certain people for life, and no matter their deeds, they will be saved. The rest are left to damnation. However, this is not the way Jesus described salvation in the following parable.

Luke 13:6-9 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "​

We see God coming again and again to try to save the individual, if they don’t bear fruit, God still tries further. If the person responds, then they are saved. If they still refuse, they are damned.

Predestination says that God just randomly selects people to give sight, the rest are blinded. But that is not consistent with the above view of scripture.
And then there is Ro 8:28-30:

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined (proorizo, determined beforehand) to be confirmed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined (proorizo), he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified he also glorified."
 
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BNR32FAN

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Predestination, a doctrine I fervently deny, states that God has pre-chosen certain people for life, and no matter their deeds, they will be saved. The rest are left to damnation. However, this is not the way Jesus described salvation in the following parable.

Luke 13:6-9 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "​

We see God coming again and again to try to save the individual, if they don’t bear fruit, God still tries further. If the person responds, then they are saved. If they still refuse, they are damned.

Predestination says that God just randomly selects people to give sight, the rest are blinded. But that is not consistent with the above view of scripture.
Predestination is true but how the elect are chosen seems to be the biggest conflict. Peter wrote that we are chosen according to God’s foreknowledge, which is an indication that His decision to choose the elect was influenced by something He foresaw in the future, not just a random choice. Since we have to abide in Christ and endure to the end in order to receive salvation, it seems to make sense to me that this is what He likely foresaw that influenced His choice before the foundation of the world.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Wow this parable is not even about personal salvation, but about Israel and their rejection of Jesus as their promised Messiah and the eventual destruction in 70 A.D.
Where did you get this idea from? It’s not found anywhere in the surrounding context. It’s a call for each individual to repent because that’s how each individual is judged.
 
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Clare73

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Predestination is true but how the elect are chosen seems to be the biggest conflict. Peter wrote that we are chosen according to God’s foreknowledge, which is an indication that His decision to choose the elect was influenced by something He foresaw in the future, not just a random choice. Since we have to abide in Christ and endure to the end in order to receive salvation, it seems to make sense to me that this is what He likely foresaw that influenced His choice before the foundation of the world.
However, that is an assumption on your part nowhere stated in Scripture.

God's foreknowledge (prognosis) in the NT always refers to God's knowledge of what he is going to do, not of what man is going to do.

God's foreknows what is going to happen because he has decreed that it shall happen.
 
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BNR32FAN

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However, that is an assumption on your part nowhere stated in Scripture.

God's foreknowledge (prognosis) in the NT always refers to God's knowledge of what he is going to do, not of what man is going to do.

God's foreknows what is going to happen because he has decreed that it shall happen.
Right and we’ve been thru this countless times before where you say that God’s decision on who He was going to choose is based on His foreknowledge of who He was going to choose which is circular reasoning.
 
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BNR32FAN

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However, that is an assumption on your part nowhere stated in Scripture.

God's foreknowledge (prognosis) in the NT always refers to God's knowledge of what he is going to do, not of what man is going to do.

God's foreknows what is going to happen because he has decreed that it shall happen.
Oh and Exodus 3:19-20 is a prime example of God exercising His foreknowledge of what man is going to do in order to determine what He is going to do.

“But I know that the king of Egypt will not permit you to go, except under compulsion. So I will stretch out My hand and strike Egypt with all My miracles which I shall do in the midst of it; and after that he will let you go.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
 
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FutureAndAHope

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And then there is Ro 8:28-30:

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined (proorizo, determined beforehand) to be confirmed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined (proorizo), he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified he also glorified."
If we look at the word “foreknew” and how it was used by the early church, we will see that the meaning given by Calvinism is not the meaning the church ascribed to it. Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165] states regarding the term foreknown:

... Furthermore, I have proved in what has preceded, that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God’s fault, but each man by his own fault is what he will appear to be... (Justin Martyr - Dialoque with Trypho, Ch 140)
...But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall be certainly punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably [wicked], but not because God had created them so. So that if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God: and the Scripture foretells that they shall be blessed, saying, ‘Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not sin;’... (Justin Martyr - Dialoque with Trypho, Ch 141)

We see in Justin’s writings that He states specifically that God is not responsible for man’s sins, and that He did not create people with a lack of ability to repent. That even those God knew would be wicked could still repent if they desired it, God never forced them to be evil.

He shows that foreknowledge does not equate to God’s choosing to save or damn people before creation began.

There are two ways to look at it.
  • Paul is just saying God knew a group of people would have faith, these ones God predetermined would be saved.
  • God in His foreknowledge (being greater than time), knew the ones who would have faith, but He did not preplan who would be saved. They had genuine free will regarding their salvation.
Tatian a disciple of Justin Martyr saw things in a similar way:

The Logos, too, before the creation of men, was the Framer of angels. And each of these two orders of creatures was made free to act as it pleased, not having the nature of good, which again is with God alone, but is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice, in order that the bad man may be justly punished, having become depraved through his own fault, but the just man be deservedly praised for his virtuous deeds, since in the exercise of his free choice he refrained from transgressing the will of God. Such is the constitution of things in reference to angels and men. And the power of the Logos, having in itself a faculty to foresee future events, not as fated, but as taking place by the choice of free agents, foretold from time to time the issues of things to come; (Tatian 110-172 AD, Address to the Greeks Chapter 7)

As I said the parable of the fruit tree, clearly shows God's desire to save all.

The Bible is clear in many places that God desires all to be saved. Below, I quote some of the scriptures that show that all means both Jew and Gentile, all people of the world.

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (NKJV, 1 Timothy 4:10)

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV, 1John 2:2)

The fact is Jesus’s ransom was given for all men, for there is not one that God does not love. For God is love.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, (NKJV, 1Timothy 2:3-6)
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Wow this parable is not even about personal salvation, but about Israel and their rejection of Jesus as their promised Messiah and the eventual destruction in 70 A.D.
Luke 13:6-9 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "

That statement can not be true, for God had no plan to keep Israel as the sole vehicle for salvation, and there were no "IF"'s regarding Israel's purpose. Israel's purpose was to bring forth Christ.

And if it bears fruit, well.

God did not say "if Israel starts acting correctly, I will change my mind about its purpose". In the context of the above, God only changes His mind about people.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Luke 13:6-9 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "

That statement can not be true, for God had no plan to keep Israel as the sole vehicle for salvation, and there were no "IF"'s regarding Israel's purpose. Israel's purpose was to bring forth Christ.

And if it bears fruit, well.

God did not say "if Israel starts acting correctly, I will change my mind about its purpose". In the context of the above, God only changes His mind about people.
Exactly because not all Israel was cut off for their rebellion, many believed and were saved.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If we look at the word “foreknew” and how it was used by the early church, we will see that the meaning given by Calvinism is not the meaning the church ascribed to it. Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165] states regarding the term foreknown:

... Furthermore, I have proved in what has preceded, that those who were foreknown to be unrighteous, whether men or angels, are not made wicked by God’s fault, but each man by his own fault is what he will appear to be... (Rev. Dods 1867, Justin Martyr - Dialoque with Trypho, Ch 140)
...But if the word of God foretells that some angels and men shall be certainly punished, it did so because it foreknew that they would be unchangeably [wicked], but not because God had created them so. So that if they repent, all who wish for it can obtain mercy from God: and the Scripture foretells that they shall be blessed, saying, ‘Blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth not sin;’... (Rev. Dods 1867, Justin Martyr - Dialoque with Trypho, Ch 141)

We see in Justin’s writings that He states specifically that God is not responsible for man’s sins, and that He did not create people with a lack of ability to repent. That even those God knew would be wicked could still repent if they desired it, God never forced them to be evil.

He shows that foreknowledge does not equate to God’s choosing to save or damn people before creation began.

There are two ways to look at it.
  • Paul is just saying God knew a group of people would have faith, these ones God predetermined would be saved.
  • God in His foreknowledge (being greater than time), knew the ones who would have faith, but He did not preplan who would be saved. They had genuine free will regarding their salvation.
Tatian a disciple of Justin Martyr saw things in a similar way:

The Logos, too, before the creation of men, was the Framer of angels. And each of these two orders of creatures was made free to act as it pleased, not having the nature of good, which again is with God alone, but is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice, in order that the bad man may be justly punished, having become depraved through his own fault, but the just man be deservedly praised for his virtuous deeds, since in the exercise of his free choice he refrained from transgressing the will of God. Such is the constitution of things in reference to angels and men. And the power of the Logos, having in itself a faculty to foresee future events, not as fated, but as taking place by the choice of free agents, foretold from time to time the issues of things to come; (Tatian 110-172 AD, Address to the Greeks Chapter 7)

As I said the parable of the fruit tree, clearly shows God's desire to save all.

The Bible is clear in many places that God desires all to be saved. Below, I quote some of the scriptures that show that all means both Jew and Gentile, all people of the world.

For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe. (NKJV, 1 Timothy 4:10)

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. (NKJV, 1John 2:2)

The fact is Jesus’s ransom was given for all men, for there is not one that God does not love. For God is love.

For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, (NKJV, 1Timothy 2:3-6)
I think Iranaeus got it right in 170AD

1. Man has received the knowledge of good and evil. It is good to obey God, and to believe in Him, and to keep His commandment, and this is the life of man; as not to obey God is evil, and this is his death. Since God, therefore, gave [to man] such mental power (magnanimitatem) man knew both the good of obedience and the evil of disobedience, that the eye of the mind, receiving experience of both, may with judgment make choice of the better things; and that he may never become indolent or neglectful of God's command; and learning by experience that it is an evil thing which deprives him of life, that is, disobedience to God, may never attempt it at all, but that, knowing that what preserves his life, namely, obedience to God, is good, he may diligently keep it with all earnestness. Wherefore he has also had a twofold experience, possessing knowledge of both kinds, that with discipline he may make choice of the better things. But how, if he had no knowledge of the contrary, could he have had instruction in that which is good? For there is thus a surer and an undoubted comprehension of matters submitted to us than the mere surmise arising from an opinion regarding them. For just as the tongue receives experience of sweet and bitter by means of tasting, and the eye discriminates between black and white by means of vision, and the ear recognises the distinctions of sounds by hearing; so also does the mind, receiving through the experience of both the knowledgeof what is good, become more tenacious of its preservation, by acting in obedience to God: in the first place, casting away, by means of repentance, disobedience, as being something disagreeable and nauseous; and afterwards coming to understand what it really is, that it is contrary to goodness and sweetness, so that the mind may never even attempt to taste disobedience to God. But if any one do shun the knowledge of both these kinds of things, and the twofold perception of knowledge, he unawares divests himself of the character of a human being.



2. How, then, shall he be a God, who has not as yet been made a man? Or how can he be perfect who was but lately created? How, again, can he be immortal, who in his mortal nature did not obey his Maker? For it must be that you, at the outset, should hold the rank of a man, and then afterwards partake of the glory of God. For you did not make God, but God you. If, then, you are God's workmanship, await the hand of your Maker which creates everything in due time; in due time as far as you are concerned, whose creation is being carried out. Offer to Him your heart in a soft and tractable state, and preserve the form in which the Creator has fashioned you, having moisture in yourself, lest, by becoming hardened, you lose the impressions of His fingers. But by preserving the framework you shall ascend to that which is perfect, for the moist clay which is in you is hidden [there] by the workmanship of God. His hand fashioned your substance; He will cover you over [too] within and without with pure gold and silver, and He will adorn you to such a degree, that even the King Himself shall have pleasure in your beauty. But if you, being obstinately hardened, reject the operation of His skill, and show yourself ungrateful towards Him, because you were created a [mere] man, by becoming thus ungrateful to God, you have at once lost both His workmanship and life. For creation is an attribute of the goodness of God but to be created is that of human nature. If then, you shall deliver up to Him what is yours, that is, faith towards Him and subjection, you shall receive His handiwork, and shall be a perfect work of God.



3. If, however, you will not believe in Him, and will flee from His hands, the cause of imperfection shall be in you who did not obey, but not in Him who called [you]. For He commissioned [messengers] to call people to the marriage, but they who did not obeyHim deprived themselves of the royal supper. Matthew 22:3, etc. The skill of God, therefore, is not defective, for He has power of the stones to raise up children to Abraham; Matthew 3:9but the man who does not obtain it is the causeto himself of his own imperfection. Nor, [in like manner], does the light fail because of those who have blinded themselves; but while it remains the same as ever, those who are [thus] blinded are involved in darkness through their own fault. The light does never enslave any one by necessity; nor, again, does God exercise compulsion upon any one unwilling to accept the exercise of His skill. Those persons, therefore, who have apostatized from the light given by the Father, and transgressed the law of liberty, have done so through their own fault, since they have been created free agents, and possessed of power over themselves.



4. But God, foreknowing all things, prepared fit habitations for both, kindly conferring that light which they desire on those who seek after the light of incorruption, and resort to it; but for the despisers and mockers who avoid and turn themselves away from this light, and who do, as it were, blind themselves, He has prepared darkness suitable to persons who oppose the light, and He has inflicted an appropriate punishment upon those who try to avoid being subject to Him. Submission to God is eternal rest, so that they who shun the light have a place worthy of their flight; and those who fly from eternal rest, have a habitation in accordance with their fleeing. Now, since all good things are with God, they who by their own determination fly from God, do defraud themselves of all good things; and having been [thus] defrauded of all good things with respect to God, they shall consequently fall under the just judgment of God. For those persons who shun rest shall justly incur punishment, and those who avoid the light shall justly dwell in darkness. For as in the case of this temporal light, those who shun it do deliver themselves over to darkness, so that they do themselves become the cause to themselves that they are destitute of light, and do inhabit darkness; and, as I have already observed, the light is not the cause of such an [unhappy] condition of existence to them; so those who fly from the eternal light of God, which contains in itself all good things, are themselves the cause to themselves of their inhabiting eternal darkness, destitute of all good things, having become to themselves the cause of [their consignment to] an abode of that nature.

St Iranaeus 170AD Adversus Haereses Book 4 Chapter 39
 
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d taylor

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The parable is addressing God's patience/mercy towards Israel. It focuses on the positive results of repentance (for rejecting Jesus as The Messiah). From Israel the fig tree, the activity of seeking fruit is a reference to God's first century coming to Israel to fulfill His promises.

“A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
Man - God, fig tree - Israel, he came seeking - Jesus first advent, fruit on it - a nation ready to receive Jesus as the promised Messiah.


Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?’

the Keeper of his vineyard - God (The Father), for three years I have come seeking fruit.... - Jesus' active ministry with Israel, Cut it down - God's judgment of the nation of Israel for what happened in Matthew 12 :22-45 which judgment happened in 70A.D.

But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.

God giving the nation of Israel one more chance, if the nation of Israel would repent and accept Jesus as their promised Messiah. Possibility through the ministry of the early church seen in Acts 2 and 3 as Acts 2 states.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”


and in Acts 3

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

So times of refreshing is a reference to the 1000 year rule of The Messiah on earth. That would have been setup with Jesus' first advent, only if the nation of Israel would have receive Jesus as the promised Messiah.
Or would have been setup if Israel had repented from rejecting Jesus as the promised Messiah and after Jesus went up into heaven He, Jesus would have returned to setup the kingdom of God. But Israel stayed in rejection and was judged, so the kingdom will not be setup until after the tribulation.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The parable is addressing God's patience/mercy towards Israel. It focuses on the positive results of repentance (for rejecting Jesus as The Messiah). From Israel the fig tree, the activity of seeking fruit is a reference to God's first century coming to Israel to fulfill His promises.

“A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
Man - God, fig tree - Israel, he came seeking - Jesus first advent, fruit on it - a nation ready to receive Jesus as the promised Messiah.


Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?’

the Keeper of his vineyard - God (The Father), for three years I have come seeking fruit.... - Jesus' active ministry with Israel, Cut it down - God's judgment of the nation of Israel for what happened in Matthew 12 :22-45 which happened in 70A.D.

But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.

God giving the nation of Israel one more chance, if the nation of Israel would repent and accept Jesus as their promised Messiah. Possibility through the ministry of the early church seen in Acts 2,3 as Acts 2 states.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”


and in Acts 3

Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

So times of refreshing is a reference to the 1000 year rule of The Messiah on earth. That would have been setup with Jesus' first advent, only if the nation of Israel would have receive Jesus as the promised Messiah.
So you’re saying that God called them to repentance and they refused to cooperate?
 
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Predestination, a doctrine I fervently deny, states that God has pre-chosen certain people for life, and no matter their deeds, they will be saved. The rest are left to damnation. However, this is not the way Jesus described salvation in the following parable.

Luke 13:6-9 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?' But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.' "​

We see God coming again and again to try to save the individual, if they don’t bear fruit, God still tries further. If the person responds, then they are saved. If they still refuse, they are damned.

Predestination says that God just randomly selects people to give sight, the rest are blinded. But that is not consistent with the above view of scripture.
From my understanding predestination is not about God already saving certain people "no matter what they've done."

Some people seem to forget God already knows our ending, just as he knows our beginning. They seem to forget he is the alpha and Omega the beginning and the end. ISAIAH 46:10 KJV Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying,...

Ecclesiastes 1:9 & 3:15 tells us nothing is new up under the sun, that which is has already been and that which will be has already been.

God has seen it already, he has seen our lives and what we will do. That is how predestination can come in, predestined is becahse God already knows who is saved and who isn't, we because we are in the present tense are just living out our choices.

Either God is omnipresent or he isn't.

To be omnipresent he knows all things and to know all things he knows the past, present, and future. So he knows who made what choices, when they made them, why they made them, we're just living it out through Time, until the moment time cease to exist, the Bible refers to it as the end of days.
 
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d taylor

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I will say my original post is not in support of Calvinist election. As i am 100% opposed to this theology, but i just wanted to point out that, that parable is not addressing this topic
 
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FutureAndAHope

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From my understanding predestination is not about God already saving certain people "no matter what they've done."

Some people seem to forget God already knows our ending, just as he knows our beginning. They seem to forget he is the alpha and Omega the beginning and the end. ISAIAH 46:10 KJV Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying,...

Ecclesiastes 1:9 & 3:15 tells us nothing is new up under the sun, that which is has already been and that which will be has already been.

God has seen it already, he has seen our lives and what we will do. That is how predestination can come in, predestined is becahse God already knows who is saved and who isn't, we because we are in the present tense are just living out our choices.

Either God is omnipresent or he isn't.

To be omnipresent he knows all things and to know all things he knows the past, present, and future. So he knows who made what choices, when they made them, why they made them, we're just living it out through Time, until the moment time cease to exist, the Bible refers to it as the end of days.
Your view is similar to point 2) that I shared in a previous post. Which states similar to yourself. It seems also to be the way the early church described things. Man is a free agent, having free will, but God can still foresee events, but not as fated.

The Logos, too, before the creation of men, was the Framer of angels. And each of these two orders of creatures was made free to act as it pleased, not having the nature of good, which again is with God alone, but is brought to perfection in men through their freedom of choice, in order that the bad man may be justly punished, having become depraved through his own fault, but the just man be deservedly praised for his virtuous deeds, since in the exercise of his free choice he refrained from transgressing the will of God. Such is the constitution of things in reference to angels and men. And the power of the Logos, having in itself a faculty to foresee future events, not as fated, but as taking place by the choice of free agents, foretold from time to time the issues of things to come; (Tatian 110-172 AD, Address to the Greeks Chapter 7)

If you want to see how I perceive Divine Foreknowledge, see my free online resource. The Way and Freewill (Foreknowledge Addendum). Because it has elements similar to Open Theology, it can't be discussed here.
 
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BNR32FAN

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From my understanding predestination is not about God already saving certain people "no matter what they've done."

Some people seem to forget God already knows our ending, just as he knows our beginning. They seem to forget he is the alpha and Omega the beginning and the end. ISAIAH 46:10 KJV Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying,...

Ecclesiastes 1:9 & 3:15 tells us nothing is new up under the sun, that which is has already been and that which will be has already been.

God has seen it already, he has seen our lives and what we will do. That is how predestination can come in, predestined is becahse God already knows who is saved and who isn't, we because we are in the present tense are just living out our choices.

Either God is omnipresent or he isn't.

To be omnipresent he knows all things and to know all things he knows the past, present, and future. So he knows who made what choices, when they made them, why they made them, we're just living it out through Time, until the moment time cease to exist, the Bible refers to it as the end of days.
Personally I believe that if God is indeed omnipresent then He exists in all time simultaneously.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I will say my original post is not in support of Calvinist election. As i am 100% opposed to this thology, but i just wanted to point out that, that parable is not addressing this topic
How do you tell a whole nation to repent and yet that commandment doesn’t imply to individuals?
 
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