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Some of you may not know that when I was a little baby I lost my mom most likely due to suicide. Having three children under the age of five and a son who only lived twenty four hours, she had post pardum depression and was found floating dead in the creek outside my garndmother's house at the age of twenty seven. I was told when I was a child that it was most likely suicide and not an accidental slip that cuased her death. Over the years my aunts have argued as to whether or not her death was a suicide but in any case I didn't have a mom growing up. My dad was an absentee father. he worked on the tugs in NYC and when he was home he would drink a lot.
I share this so you will understand how I came to discover a very important aspect about Christ. When I decided that I wanted to know the Lord in a more personal way one of the things I began to experience is the "mothering" of Christ. I had always denied the imporatnce of having a mother. I concluded I didn't miss what I never had. I didn't understand the importance of bonding, touch and affection that a mother gives to her child. But before I go on I would like to point out scripturally that Christ does have motherly attributes.
Jesus our Mother.
Here's a few scriptures to think about. (Sorry I can't give you the exact verses, just the whereabouts.)
1.) From Jeremiah "Can a woman forget her nursing child or fail to have compassion upon it? She may forget but no will I not. Israel you are always before Me."
In Isaiah: 'Your mother and father may forsake you but I will not."
Jesus in the Gospels "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, how often have I longed to gather you as a mother hen gathers her chicks under her wings."
From these few scrptures we see that Christ loves us with a love likened to a father and a mother. A father's love is strong and protecting. The same can be said of a mother's love but even more so a mother has nourishing qualties. This is what I want to address: how Jesus loves us like a mother and why it is important in relation to our Vine-Life with Jesus.
Perhaps this will be a new vision for some, seeing Jesus as our mother. I think we will be greatly encouraged as we meditate on how Jesus keeps us and how close we actually are to Him.
Now let's watch how this beautiful truth unfolds. Didn't He know you and I before we were ever born? Even in Genesis when Adam and Eve had fallen the plan of salvation was already set in motion. We know from Psalms that David said all our days have been alotted to us and that we were fearfully and wonderfully made. God had knit us together in our mother's womb.
Imagine a good mother-to-be being told she was pregnant. What joy she has in knowing that soon she will bear a child! What a precious secret between her and her unborn child in that she alone knows what it feels like to carry that child, to know the movements and growth of the little one, and the child knows the mother more than anyone else. Not even her husband can experience this deep bond between mother and child. The child utterly depends on the mother for everything.
So how does this tie into Jesus? How can we find Jesus in this picture? I'll talk more about it tomorrow. In the mean time let's rejoice that we His!
I've never seen a thread as confusing as this one.
.
At this point I think I'm becoming more Marian by the day. I have a devotion to her, and I know her as my Mother.
Yet this came to me through the specific experiences I've had not through theological arguments.
What KTS is saying also came from her experience. I can't imagine what it's like to lose a parent. It's pretty awesome that she came to be a strong believer of Christ. I'd have probably become an angry atheist or something. Just be happy for her sis. If she's saying something that you think is wrong, commit her to the Lord, He knows our hearts better and can certainly do more in our souls than we can. No one has the perfect understanding. Even if KTS is wrong about this the Lord will show in His time. But I don't think she's wrong, because I think she meant something a little different than what has been criticized in this thread.
I don't understand what you are 'over' or what stories you're referring to. Can it be that perhaps the Lord knows exactly what KTS is trying to express. What you're trying to express. What I'm trying to express. Maybe we just need to trust Him and pray for each other and be patient with one another. I need to be patient more than anyone, but I'm still saying that cause that's what I believe.
Also - we all get so focused on words here at forums. meh words and just words. See how both Jesus and Mary can be called the Tree of Life. That confuses people. Why.. because we need to look beyond the words a little. If someone is expressing their experience and faith in a way unfamiliar to us, we shouldn't be quick to judge but just commit them to God. That's my opinion.
Heresy is something else. Heresy is when a person believes something incorrect. But a person can believe everything correctly simply express that in a different way. There is a distinction.
Peace
One thing our heavenly mother Christ had which earthly mothers lack was the full knowledge of how we would look when we were all "grown up." Jesus saw our perfected state as well but He knew we could not be perfected unless we remained in Him. So our birth would have to be different than natural birth. We would have to remain intimately united to Him and utterly dependant on Him. How could this happen? What miracle would bring about this wonderous expression of His heart?
We will find out as we continue our meditation.
I said I was not going to debate this. We have been through this with her, we all said how sorry were are for her loss. We all understand and do not dispute the sentiments, we only object to the insistence on using this language. Gee, what is so hard to understand in what we, Gwen TLF, myself, Debi, Joab, LWU, WA is saying???
Now I have to explain this to you becuase my first explanation did not cut it guess, I do not criticize her feelings, only the use of the language and trying to teach us that Jesus is our mother.
I have nothing to add. Good night, it's very late around here.
and ya know... (can y'all tell I'm in a lousy mood?) ya know, not being open to correction... not cool.
The OP should have read something like this when presenting speculation... "here is what i think, correct me if I am wrong".
Monica, hi!this is symbolic language. Cuz Jesus has mother like qualities. (caring, compassionate, nurturing, etc)
Jesus "feeds us from His bosom" - again - symbolism - referring to the Eucharist. When Jesus was on the Cross the soldier pierced His Heart. When we receive the Eucharist we are receiving the same Blood that came from His side then.
Bene come on I know you're good with mystical language, just think of de Montfort
KTS didn't mean it as literally as you think IMO.
Monica, it wasn't simply a testimony OP, it was written in a way to instruct.I think that there has been a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.
KTS came in here talking about who Jesus is to her.
But some others started making assumptions about what they think she said, and then arguing against those assumptions.
I'm not saying I've never done that myself. I have. But IMO it's best to ask questions first.
But really, it goes deeper. Is there a real reason to start debating theology in someone's testimony thread? That is what I'm wondering. It seems kind of heartless to me. Sorry.. just being blunt here. I think some posts in this thread have been cruel. Why? Perhaps those who made these comments just wanted to help KTS because you decided she's saying something wrong. So your intention might have been totally honorable. But please keep in mind that this is a personal topic and that making hurtful comments in an effort to promote Church teaching does not in fact promote Church teaching. It does nothing but draw people away. I've made these mistakes too. A while ago I was sharing with a family member and came across too pushy, and guess what it did.. absolutely nothing good. In fact, I totally messed up something God was doing in the person.
That being said, I think there has been a lot of overreacting and KTS is not saying what you think she's saying!
Peace
We focus so much on doctrine sometimes.
truth and love go together.
love without truth is sentimentality. truth without love is not the full truth.
hey - a sister on our forum has lost a mother and found God.
"weep with those who weep, rejoice with those who rejoice" - it says..
instead we lecture.. switch the topic to doctrine.. it was never about doctrine to begin with. It was a personal story.
Many times in my life I've unintentionally hurt people in my attempts to convince them of the truth, even though my intention was loving. WHO CARES if we have the truth and talk about it to others if our words are harsh. There are times when we do need to be ..stern, I guess. But is it right to be like that in this case. IMO, no it's not.
for all I know maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe God is totally cheering you on for standing up for what you believe is true. Well actually here's what I believe.. I believe He's pleased that you're standing up to the truth, and He's pleased that KTS loves Him so much, and He understands each of us. So let's please all try to understand each other too. Sometimes on these forums we act like we're in a debate or something. What happened?
Maybe I'm missing something. I'll go now.
God bless
Monica, hi!
The issue isn't whether it is literal or not, but how we choose to express our ideas, whether we choose to express them in conformity with the Church or not.
Using such terminology is concerning, especially when, after it is brought out in the open it is not acceptable by the Church. Resistance to expressing ideas in conformity to the Church in an acceptable manner is something that concerns me and others.
How can you say you are open to correction? you are fighting what i am saying now.her language is poetic/mystical, IMO.
good night
are WE always open to correction?
do we always say everything perfectly?
when I read the original post I got the sense that KTS just wanted to talk about how good the Lord is.
We have to be able to strike a balance. Do we allow ppl to just teach error or do we correct them?
And how do we do that, in love? Great but sometimes we have to get stern becuase no one is listening.
All it takes is presenting speculation properly, A) by saying it's just speculation, B) being open to correction and C) keeping it in line with the Church's teaching but if you don't know the Church's teaching... I guess you can't keep it in line with it and LORD forbid anyone like TLF should come in and let ppl know what the Church's teachings are.
How can you say you are open to correction? you are fighting what i am saying now.
this is so not even up for debate.
Jesus is not our mother and as much as i appreciate her good intentions, and what she really was meaning, not everyone will. there is something call new ageism out there and this boarders it.
KTS needed to know that we have to word things carefully becuase this is how error begins and once we are in error it just begets more and more error and then no body knows what's true.
Ppl on this forum is just not open to correction and I find that the Number uno issue.
here's the problem. You have assumed that KTS is teaching error based on her terminology. What if she's just using words differently. Do we still correct then?
if someone is not listening, can we really say that's because of their personal flaw.. maybe it's our fault for shouting too loud.
I'm sorry Bene but are you the Pope? Am I allowed to simply disagree?
as you wish, I hate debate anyways.
Oki.
We focus so much on doctrine sometimes.
truth and love go together.
love without truth is sentimentality. truth without love is not the full truth.
hey - a sister on our forum has lost a mother and found God.
"weep with those who weep, rejoice with those who rejoice" - it says..
instead we lecture.. switch the topic to doctrine.. it was never about doctrine to begin with. It was a personal story.
Many times in my life I've unintentionally hurt people in my attempts to convince them of the truth, even though my intention was loving. WHO CARES if we have the truth and talk about it to others if our words are harsh. There are times when we do need to be ..stern, I guess. But is it right to be like that in this case. IMO, no it's not.
for all I know maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe God is totally cheering you on for standing up for what you believe is true. Well actually here's what I believe.. I believe He's pleased that you're standing up to the truth, and He's pleased that KTS loves Him so much, and He understands each of us. So let's please all try to understand each other too. Sometimes on these forums we act like we're in a debate or something. What happened?
Maybe I'm missing something. I'll go now.
God bless
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