Jesus is God says Koran...

[R3quiem]

Speaking modern Arabic will not help you understand the classic written Arabic...

The Qur'an does not change. Muslims over a thousand years ago believed the same thing they do now.

There are not 1.5 billion Muslims.

There are are an estimated 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims.

Further, 80% of Muslims are not Arabs.

A relatively high percentage of Muslims can read the Qur'an as it is written in Arabic. A much, much smaller percentage of Christians can read the Bible in it's original languages.

Give us as example...

002.115 To God belong the East and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is God's countenance. For God is all-Embracing, all-Knowing.
002.116 They say: "God hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.
002.117 To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.

Notice 2.116; this is one of the examples you have brought up in your various threads. It says that Christians say God hath begotten a son, but then it goes on to say that it is wrong. Whether it's the truth or not is not the topic, the topic is what it SAYS.

 

[ApplePie7]

The Qur'an does not change. Muslims over a thousand years ago believed the same thing they do now.

A millenia ago nearly all Muslims were illiterate.

They were told what to believe....same as today...

There are are an estimated 1 to 1.5 billion Muslims.

So now the number changes...

A relatively high percentage of Muslims can read the Qur'an as it is written in Arabic.

Dead wrong.

Only ~20% of Muslims are Arab...and these only understand modern Arabic...and of these, only a few have actually read the koran themselves...let alone understand what it says...

That's where the islamic lie comes in and "interprets" the text for them...so that they just have to obey and not question anything...

A much, much smaller percentage of Christians can read the Bible in it's original languages.

Think so....?

002.115 To God belong the East and the West: Whithersoever ye turn, there is God's countenance. For God is all-Embracing, all-Knowing.
002.116 They say: "God hath begotten a son" :Glory be to Him.-Nay, to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and on earth: everything renders worship to Him.
002.117 To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.

Observe the true meaning...

وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت​

والأرض كل له قنتون​

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona

2.116 And they said: " “allah” he has taken a Son,glory be to Him, much more certainly His, that which (is) in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.”

Notice 2.116; this is one of the examples you have brought up in your various threads. It says that Christians say God hath begotten a son, but then it goes on to say that it is wrong. Whether it's the truth or not is not the topic, the topic is what it SAYS.

Where....exactly....?

بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما​

يقول له كن فيكون​

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu

2.117 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so only certainly Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is.

 

[R3quiem]

A millenia ago nearly all Muslims were illiterate.

They were told what to believe....same as today...

Christians are told what to believe too.

So now the number changes...

The number is not exact, just like the number of Christians is not exact. Most sources estimate 1-1.5 billion Muslims. I initially used the higher end to illustrate the point, so the number didn't change.

Dead wrong.

Only ~20% of Muslims are Arab...and these only understand modern Arabic...and of these, only a few have actually read the koran themselves...let alone understand what it says...

Bias. State some sources.

That's where the islam lie comes in and "interprets" the text for them...so that they just have to obey and not question anything...

Who are these liars? If they all just obey, who is the one lying to them?

Besides, Christianity works the same way. Churches interpret the Bible for Christians and tell them what to believe. If you question Christianity, you just get the answer "You must have faith."

Observe the true meaning...

وقالوا اتخذ الله ولدا سبحنه بل له ما في السموت

والأرض كل له قنتون​

Waqaloo itakhatha Allahu waladan subhanahu bal lahu ma fee alssamawati waal-ardi kullun lahu qanitoona

2.116 And they said: " “allah” he has taken a Son,glory be to Him, much more certainly His, that which (is) in the heavens and the earth, all are certainly obedient unto Him.”

Where....exactly....?

بديع السموت والأرض وإذا قضى أمرا فإنما

يقول له كن فيكون​

BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu

2.117 Originator (of) the heavens and the earth and when commanded entirely by (the) Word, so only certainly Him, He says: "Be thou." so (it) is.

Please state which online translator you are using.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

Dead wrong.
Only ~20% of Muslims are Arab...and these only understand modern Arabic...and of these, only a few have actually read the koran themselves...let alone understand what it says...

That's where the islamic lie comes in and "interprets" the text for them...so that they just have to obey and not question anything...

The biggest liar in all this is you. there are millions of non arabs muslim around the world who speak, read and write perfect Arabic. Again another lie that only a few of these have read the quran.How low are you going top go to propagate your lying agenda. There are thousands of Non arab Muslim scholars who have mastered the quranic arabic and who today teach it to others.
This lying agenda that you are pushing forward does not become a christian. Jesus did not do his mission like this. You are the handiwork of satan.if really you want to attract people to your religion do it the way Jesus did, without lies and deceit. May be then God will bless you now with all the lies you are propagating you are just becoming a laughing stock.

 

[R3quiem]

The biggest liar in all this is you. there are millions of non arabs muslim around the world who speak, read and write perfect Arabic. Again another lie that only a few of these have read the quran.How low are you going top go to propagate your lying agenda. There are thousands of Non arab Muslim scholars who have mastered the quranic arabic and who today teach it to others.
This lying agenda that you are pushing forward does not become a christian. Jesus did not do his mission like this. You are the handiwork of satan.if really you want to attract people to your religion do it the way Jesus did, without lies and deceit. May be then God will bless you now with all the lies you are propagating you are just becoming a laughing stock.

I agree.

Apple, if you wish to promote Christianity, do it in a better way. You may have a nice goal, but you're just making yourself seem prideful and ignorant. Try to focus on areas of your own religion to attract people, instead of attack others' beliefs. People will respond to you better and you may be able to share ideas better.

 

[ApplePie7]

there are millions of non arabs muslim around the world who speak, read and write perfect Arabic.

Too bad there is never one around to exegetically defend his book of faith...

 

[czach8]

I agree.

Apple, if you wish to promote Christianity, do it in a better way.

Maybe he is right. The Quran does indeed make Jesus God. The Quran specifically says all Jews, Christians, and Muslims are worthy to enter heaven:

Quran "(2:62) says: “Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabeans- whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Days and doeth right, surely their reward is with the Lord, and there sure no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve”.

Try to focus on areas of your own religion to attract people, instead of attack others' beliefs. People will respond to you better and you may be able to share ideas better.

So you do not think the Quran claims Jesus is God? If this is not true bro, then why did Pope John Paul II publicly kiss the Quran in front of Mullahs:

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Too bad there is never one around to exegetically defend his book of faith...

I would say Paul does an excellent "exegesist" on the Faith that is of the Lord Jesus and YHWH His Father.
Note the same exact word he uses in Ephes 2:22 that is also used in the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation! [this word used only twice in the whole New Testament/New Covenant of Israel.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Ephesians 2:22 in whom also ye are being-builded-together/sun-oik-odomeisqe <4925, into a habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732> of the God/YHWH in Spirit.

Reve 18:2 And he cries in strong voice, saying, `She falls, She falls, Babylon the great. And she became a habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732 of demons, and prisonhouse of every spirit unclean, and prisonhouse of every bird unclean,

Hebrews 7:12 for the Priesthood being changed, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming,

 

[ApplePie7]

I would say Paul does an excellent "exegesist" on the Faith that is of the Lord Jesus and YHWH His Father.
Note the same exact word he uses in Ephes 2:22 that is also used in the Jewish/Hebrew book of Revelation! [this word used only twice in the whole New Testament/New Covenant of Israel.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Ephesians 2:22 in whom also ye are being-builded-together/sun-oik-odomeisqe <4925, into a habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732> of the God/YHWH in Spirit.

Reve 18:2 And he cries in strong voice, saying, `She falls, She falls, Babylon the great. And she became a habitation/kat-oik-hthrion <2732 of demons, and prisonhouse of every spirit unclean, and prisonhouse of every bird unclean,

Hebrews 7:12 for the Priesthood being changed, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming,

That is a great point...

 

[almakan]

​

Fact of the matter is that this ayah proclaims Jesus Christ as God Almighty.

Salam! D fact of matter if trinity is 1 n Jesus, God, n Holy Spirit r 1, not 3 gods or partners as Christians say, then Jesus is God. I will not argu against that because us Sufis c the Oneness of God in all things.

 

[almakan]

So you do not think the Quran claims Jesus is God? If this is not true bro, then why did Pope John Paul II publicly kiss the Quran in front of Mullahs:

Ha haha haha! Me remember dis picture. What a 2 face pope who kiss Quran n then says in corrupt cathecism all faiths except Catholics have no salvation. I doubt dis 2 face pope saw tru Jesus in Quran! He c's fake Jesus!

 

[almakan]

Double post. Sorry.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

What a 2 face pope who kiss Quran n then says in corrupt cathecism all faiths except Catholics have no salvation!

Cathecism of the Catholic Church actually speaks friendly of the Islamic faith, due to the claim of being an Abrahamic faith, and they don't write muslims off, in terms of salvation.

 

[almakan]

Cathecism of the Catholic Church actually speaks friendly of the Islamic faith,

So u agree w/ Catholic church?

due to the claim of being an Abrahamic faith, and they don't write muslims off, in terms of salvation.

Thats not what pope said jus recent. He said no one saved outside Catholic church.

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Maybe he is right. The Quran does indeed make Jesus God. The Quran specifically says all Jews, Christians, and Muslims are worthy to enter heaven:

Quran "(2:62) says: “Lo! Those who believe, and those who are Jews, Christians, and Sabeans- whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Days and doeth right, surely their reward is with the Lord, and there sure no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve”.

Unlike Applelie I know Arabic grammar and dont have to go use a translator or dictionary/lexicon to understand Arabic words.

Now since this post has attracted ample "Arabic Speakers" they will, and is their duty to, correct me if I am wrong.

Take a look as the word highlighted in blue of your quote above. The verb-tense is wrong:

&#1573;&#1616;&#1606;&#1617;&#1614; &#1575;&#1604;&#1617;&#1614;&#1584;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614; &#1570;&#1605;&#1614;&#1606;&#1615;&#1608;&#1575;&#1618; &#1608;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1617;&#1614;&#1584;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614; &#1607;&#1614;&#1575;&#1583;&#1615;&#1608;&#1575;&#1618; &#1608;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1606;&#1617;&#1614;&#1589;&#1614;&#1575;&#1585;&#1614;&#1609; &#1608;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1589;&#1617;&#1614;&#1575;&#1576;&#1616;&#1574;&#1616;&#1610;&#1606;&#1614; &#1605;&#1614;&#1606;&#1618; &#1570;&#1605;&#1614;&#1606;&#1614; &#1576;&#1616;&#1575;&#1604;&#1604;&#1617;&#1614;&#1607;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1618;&#1610;&#1614;&#1608;&#1618;&#1605;&#1616; &#1575;&#1604;&#1570;&#1582;&#1616;&#1585;&#1616; &#1608;&#1614;&#1593;&#1614;&#1605;&#1616;&#1604;&#1614; &#1589;&#1614;&#1575;&#1604;&#1616;&#1581;&#1575;&#1611; &#1601;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1607;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1571;&#1614;&#1580;&#1618;&#1585;&#1615;&#1607;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1593;&#1616;&#1606;&#1583;&#1614; &#1585;&#1614;&#1576;&#1616;&#1617;&#1607;&#1616;&#1605;&#1618; &#1608;&#1614;&#1604;&#1575;&#1614; &#1582;&#1614;&#1608;&#1618;&#1601;&#1612; &#1593;&#1614;&#1604;&#1614;&#1610;&#1618;&#1607;&#1616;&#1605;&#1618; &#1608;&#1614;&#1604;&#1575;&#1614; &#1607;&#1615;&#1605;&#1618; &#1610;&#1614;&#1581;&#1618;&#1586;&#1614;&#1606;&#1615;&#1608;&#1606;&#1614;​

Verily those who believe and those who are Jews and the Christians and the Sabeans who believed in Allah and the day of the hereafter and did righteousness then for them is their reward before their Lord and no fear will be upone them nor will they grieve

&#1570;&#1605;&#1614;&#1606;&#1614; = aamana, is past-tense, meaning: "he believed"

When we say "aamana billah" it means "he believed in Allah" refering to the past-tense not the present or furture-tense.

THe Qurna is speaking about those Jews, Christians, and Sabeans who believed in Allah and did righteousness in the past.

This does not apply to those Jews, Christians, and Sabeans after the time of when this message was revealed to our Prophet.

 

[czach8]

Unlike Applelie I know Arabic grammar and dont have to go use a translator or dictionary/lexicon to understand Arabic words.

Brother, I will admit I am not proficient in Arabic. That is fine, you say the verse is referring to past tense. Ok fine. However besides Christians and Sabeans for that matter, what makes you think Jews do not believe in God anymore? What makes you think Jews do not believe in Allah? You cannot use the past tense argument when it comes to Jews, correct? Therefore, your initial argument is still faulty.

Thank you.

 

[anatolian]

I dont know if this can be aplied to that ayah but in islam "the faith in Allah" means a total submision.For example when I say "I believe you" I mean I believe your words.If a jew truly believes in Allah-has the faith in Allah-then he/she can not reject Quran which is His word.If that man rejects Quran then he doesnt "believe Allah"..

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Brother, I will admit I am not proficient in Arabic. That is fine, you say the verse is referring to past tense. Ok fine. However besides Christians and Sabeans for that matter, what makes you think Jews do not believe in God anymore? What makes you think Jews do not believe in Allah? You cannot use the past tense argument when it comes to Jews, correct? Therefore, your initial argument is still faulty.

Thank you.

I think a correct perspective is what is missing here. I do not think, that Jews do not believe in Allah. In fact more Jews believe in Allah than Christians do.

The verse that was in question was speaking about that there will be Jews, Christians, and Sabeans in the past, before the Quran was revealed, will enter Jannah.

The perspective in question is what about the Jews, Christians, and Sabeans from the time the Quran was revealed till now and times to come.

Those Jews, Christians, and Sabeans who hear of Islam, the Quran, or Muhammad, whom have been clearly warned but continue to disbelieve in Islam, the Quran and Muhammad as the final Prophet of G-d, and die in their disbelief their reward will be Jahannam, some will aventually be taken out but others will remain permanently especially those who practiced "Shirk".

It is the same for Jews before the coming of Jesus, but those who hear about Jesus and the Gospel whom continue to whom have been clearly warned but continue to disbelieve in Jesus, the Injeel and Jesus as the Messiah of G-d, and die in their disbelief their reward will be Jahannam.

There will be no retroactive judgement against a people who never heard of Jesus or Muhammad and that were never presented a warning from their teachings, but will only be held accountable to the teachings of their time. This was the point.

 

[ApplePie7]

Unlike Applelie I know Arabic grammar and dont have to go use a translator or dictionary/lexicon to understand Arabic words.

And...

That is why you just sit on the sideline and accept that your book of faith mandates Jesus Christ as God Almighty...

 

[czach8]

If a jew truly believes in Allah-has the faith in Allah-then he/she can not reject Quran which is His word.If that man rejects Quran then he doesnt "believe Allah"..

So then, what is the difference between the Torah and the Quran? Peace.