Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (3)

[ozell]

Ozell, it appears that your entire theology is built around the lies you have convinced yourself of about love. For example, that love and hate are opposites, or that justice and judgment are not part of love. These lies are clouding your mind and blinding your eyes to the truth God has for you about His amazing love. Shed yourself of the lies and hold to only the truth and there, stand in amazement of all that God wants to show you and give to you.

what I'm convinced of is this and notice no emotions are attached to this plain reason from God

lets read

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.


John 15:7
7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

this is logis, this is reason, this is commonsense AND this is LOVE!!!!

 

[ozell]

LOVE IS THE OPPOSITE OF HATE: A 3rd grader knows this


God hates people who don't obey and follow his words!

Isaiah 32:6
For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.

The Lord hates all workers of iniquity.
Not some workers of sin

ALL workers of sin!

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

what is a vile person vile person
what is a worker of iniquity

Proverbs 6
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[ozell]

Psalm 11


1In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?


2For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.


3If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?


4The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

5The LORD trieth the righteous:but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

love is the opposite of hate
the Lord hates him that loveth violence, the Lord hates that person very soul!!!

 

[razzelflabben]

what I'm convinced of is this and notice no emotions are attached to this plain reason from God

first, I am not accusing you of emotionalism, your accusing me of it, so why is this even necessary? Second, let's deal with reason a moment. What does scripture tell us? Let's read....Isaiah 55:8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD.

Many, many people make this mistake that you are making here, they try to reason what scripture says rather than to accept what it says by faith. You see, man's wisdom is...what does scripture tell us? Let's read....I Cor. 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

You see, according to scripture, not razzelflabben, not Ozell, not tradition, not denomination, not emotion, but according to God, we can't reason our way into understanding God, we get there...How? again, let's read scripture....Romans 10:17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

it's with eyes of faith that we understand the things of God and not the eyes of man through reason or thought. This is your first mistake, you are trying to understand God through your reasoning, not through faith. That dear one, is scripture, not emotion, not tradition, etc. etc. etc.

lets read

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.


John 15:7
7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.


8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

this is logis, this is reason, this is commonsense AND this is LOVE!!!!

No one here has ever questioned these passages or their importance in our lives. What has been questioned is your interpretation of them and their relavence to the topic of God's love for man. Neither of which you have addressed. In fact, you seem very purpose driven to avoid these two issues, I'm guessing because if you addressed them, light would be shone in the darkness of your own heart.

May we all be brave enough to allow the light of God to reveal the hidden darknesses of our own beings.

 

[razzelflabben]

LOVE IS THE OPPOSITE OF HATE: A 3rd grader knows this

so your entire argument against all the evidence presented and the scriptures is that a 3rd grader knows...wow, I happen to remember being taught, somewhere along 3 rd grade that love and hate were not opposites and I couldn't believe it until I started researching it, which I eventually did, which is why I presented evidence rather than relying on the "uhuh because I said so, a 3 rd grader knows more than you...nahnah nah" type argument you present here. How about being smarter than a 3rd grader and actually present some kind of argument? A valid argument.....The Opposite of Love

In fact, this is often taught in some of the very early grades.

God hates people who don't obey and follow his words!

never contested.....the disagreement is not in whether or not God hates, but whether or not love and hate are opposites. As you have been shown, through scripture as well as dictionary, they are not.

Isaiah 32:6
For the vile person will speak villany, and his heart will work iniquity, to practise hypocrisy, and to utter error against the LORD, to make empty the soul of the hungry, and he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.

The Lord hates all workers of iniquity.
Not some workers of sin

ALL workers of sin!

Psalm 5:5
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

what is a vile person vile person
what is a worker of iniquity

Proverbs 6
16These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

BTW, workers of iniquity are those that dwell in sin....that is what scripture says, and you even presented those passages....how about basing your understanding on scripture instead of your own reasoning?

 

[razzelflabben]

Psalm 11


1In the LORD put I my trust: how say ye to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?


2For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may privily shoot at the upright in heart.


3If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?


4The LORD is in his holy temple, the LORD's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.

5The LORD trieth the righteous:but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

love is the opposite of hate

evidence it...show in scripture or otherwise, that love is the opposite of hate....that should be pretty simple, put forth some evidence to support your claim...

the Lord hates him that loveth violence, the Lord hates that person very soul!!!

no problem, this has never been questioned...what you fail to do is show any reason to assume love and hate are opposites. Please do so, or stop trying to pass your poison off as truth.

 

[Christownsme]

Love and hate are both action verbs. Desire is a compassion from the bowels of mercy of our God. This mercy has the ability to put love into action when He ought to hate us.

 

[razzelflabben]

Love and hate are both action verbs. Desire is a compassion from the bowels of mercy of our God. This mercy has the ability to put love into action when He ought to hate us.

Biblical love is actually emotion, action, and attitude and more.

 

[ozell]

Matthew 24v12

iniquity shall abound and the love of many
shall wax cold.

in this day and at this time
the love for fellow brother and sister
will wax cold

 

[razzelflabben]

Matthew 24v12

iniquity shall abound and the love of many
shall wax cold.

in this day and at this time
the love for fellow brother and sister
will wax cold

yep, but how can we know if love waxes cold if we don't even know what real love is?

 

[ozell]

The Lord even cast away children who sins against him.

it is written

Job 8

3Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
4If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;

20Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:


21Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
22They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought

 

[ozell]

IT is impossible for the Lord to love all people!

Psalm 101

6Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

7He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house:

he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.
8I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD

 

[razzelflabben]

The Lord even cast away children who sins against him.

it is written

Job 8

3Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
4If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;

20Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:


21Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
22They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought

Good to see you back Ozell, I was beginning to fear we had lost you. Unfortunately you still don't seem to understand that discussion isn't in repeating yourself but rather in the exchange of ideas.

Oh well, let's try this a different way...Heb. we have been studying Heb. and the new covenant in SS. Let me point out to you, one of many changes from the old covenant and the new, (there are many changes, this is only one) In the OT, or old covenant, it was fear that compelled people to obedience, or better stated, to attempt obedience. (Heb. 2:2-3; 12:25-27 and many more) under the new coventent, the one in which to live under today, it is a willing heart and mind (Heb. 8:10-12)

Because of this difference, we see a change in the OT from fear, to the NT of love. Both are rooted in love, both are structured for the good of the people. Both are about salvation, but our perception, our impressions, if seen through the eyes of man and not the eyes of faith, is distorted and can be manipulated to testify of God's "destructive, lack of love" nature. It is not a lack of love, but rather a method of love that you are seeing here.

 

[razzelflabben]

IT is impossible for the Lord to love all people!

Psalm 101

6Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.

7He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house:

he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.
8I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD

this just shows your lack of understanding of what real love is, and for all the times I have begged you to study it with me, you still refuse...why? Why not put forth some effort and learn about a part of God you don't know or understand?

 

[ozell]

this just shows your lack of understanding of what real love is, and for all the times I have begged you to study it with me, you still refuse...why? Why not put forth some effort and learn about a part of God you don't know or understand?

i understand that God loves and he hates
i understand God love those who keep his commandments
this is God's condition.

 

[razzelflabben]

i understand that God loves and he hates
i understand God love those who keep his commandments
this is God's condition.

as we have seen in scripture, God also loves His enemies, those that hate Him, you know, the workers of inquity...it's scripture dear, not my words, but God's

 

[ozell]

Job 2:10
But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

CONDITIONAL LOVE!

 

[ozell]

as we have seen in scripture, God also loves His enemies, those that hate Him, you know, the workers of inquity...it's scripture dear, not my words, but God's

will God's enemies make it into the kingdom?

here is God's COLD word to people who thought God loved them

lets read

Matthew 7:22-24
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

where?

pay attention

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
:o

so much for love when they hit that everlasting fire!!!

God's love is conditional

 

[razzelflabben]

Job 2:10
But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

CONDITIONAL LOVE!

7 So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. 8 Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes.
9 His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!”
10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish[b] woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”
In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.
11 When Job’s three friends, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite, heard about all the troubles that had come upon him, they set out from their homes and met together by agreement to go and sympathize with him and comfort him. 12 When they saw him from a distance, they could hardly recognize him; they began to weep aloud, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads. 13 Then they sat on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights. No one said a word to him, because they saw how great his suffering was.



Nowhere does it say that God stopped loving Job, and so, we see that love is full of good and bad at least in the eyes of man.

 

[razzelflabben]

will God's enemies make it into the kingdom?

what does that have to do with the OP question? NOTHING....no, God's enemies will not make it to heaven, but that doesn't stop love, as you have been shown many times over now from scripture.

here is God's COLD word to people who thought God loved them

lets read

Matthew 7:22-24
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

where?

pay attention

Matthew 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
:o

so much for love when they hit that everlasting fire!!!

God's love is conditional

You really don't have a clue what love is do you????? But you know what, truth is never "caught" by lies, so let's take your purposed definition that love is obeying....your claim is that love is obeying....so if we disobey, then wouldn't the same love condemn us? Of course it would...so once again, scripture shows love to be unconditional and we are even working with your pale definition and lack of understanding.